General Discussion

Marr

(20,317 posts)

181. I didn't say the party would be more successful if it was both more socially and fiscally liberal.

Sat Nov 8, 2014, 11:01 PM

Nov 2014

I think the party would be vastly more successful if it was just more fiscally liberal, and unabashedly so. Social issues are currently all that separates many of our politicians from Republicans, and it isn't practical. Bill Clinton bragged that he was more economically conservative than Bush Sr. Obama said he would've been considered a moderate Republican during the Reagan years. Ceding the economic argument to conservatives and just scrimmaging along social issue lines isn't viable anymore.

The focus should be left-wing economic policies, party-wide. They can sort of out social issues as they need by region-- it is a big tent, after all. But the party has to actually stand for something. It's not surprising that Democrats have such a hard time in red states right now. The economic policies pushed by the party are already conservative, and liberal social issues aren't going to help them... so they're just lesser Republicans.

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A Party that loses an election and blames voters for not showing up at the polls . . . [View all] markpkessinger Nov 2014 OP

This is easy for anyone to think through. One third voted leaving two thirds not voting. Thinkingabout Nov 2014 #1

I voted, and did my best to encourage others to vote . . . markpkessinger Nov 2014 #5

Democracy is not a product to be sold. It is a privilege and a duty. MH1 Nov 2014 #15

Democracy is not the product. branford Nov 2014 #20

+1 Scuba Nov 2014 #27

Amen.... daleanime Nov 2014 #28

Well said! n/t markpkessinger Nov 2014 #31

Are you saying not voting is a winning strategy? The GOP candidates are the winners. Thinkingabout Nov 2014 #36

Where, anywhere in this thread, is it said or even remotely implied . . . markpkessinger Nov 2014 #45

In post #20 Thinkingabout Nov 2014 #55

No, I don't even know how you even implied that from my post. branford Nov 2014 #68

You are arguing a logical non-sequitur markpkessinger Nov 2014 #72

No, what he's saying is not giving people something to vote FOR is a losing SomethingFishy Nov 2014 #47

Thank you, yes. markpkessinger Nov 2014 #50

But they don't seem to be getting it... SomethingFishy Nov 2014 #54

And yet . . . markpkessinger Nov 2014 #93

ROFLMAO..I just had that conversation... SomethingFishy Nov 2014 #100

They are angry moralistic authoritarians enraged that... Odin2005 Nov 2014 #95

What is the result of low voter turnout, Republicans were elected. Thinkingabout Nov 2014 #56

Could you be a little more obtuse? SomethingFishy Nov 2014 #60

I am surprised with so much information available with just a few keystrokes Thinkingabout Nov 2014 #107

What is the result of a party that fails to motivate people to go to the polls? markpkessinger Nov 2014 #74

I went fishing the other day. Saved a lot of money by not baiting my hook. Jackpine Radical Nov 2014 #77

+1 markpkessinger Nov 2014 #83

Brilliant analogy! Odin2005 Nov 2014 #96

I gotta admit I was sorta proud of that one. Jackpine Radical Nov 2014 #99

. markpkessinger Nov 2014 #101

I never metaphor Jackpine Radical Nov 2014 #102

Bullseye!! Liberal_Dog Nov 2014 #108

ROFLMAO!! SomethingFishy Nov 2014 #117

At least you seem to know how to fish, perhaps your next trip will result in fish. Thinkingabout Nov 2014 #159

Well said, but I alerted anywayz. You are being rude to fish. rhett o rick Nov 2014 #171

. ctsnowman Nov 2014 #173

I'm not so sure any more that nonvoters would have voted for Democrats treestar Nov 2014 #145

Looks like you have the right answer, at least when the biyching starts the first question will be Thinkingabout Nov 2014 #161

True. And this no vote threat never comes with any detail about what WOULD inspire them treestar Nov 2014 #163

If you're on a sinking ship and you want bail water just because you don't like the captain TiredOfNo Nov 2014 #59

Right so when the Captain of Titanic ran his ship into the fucking iceberg, SomethingFishy Nov 2014 #62

I see here a resentment of anyone in charge of anything treestar Nov 2014 #151

But if you put your ballot into a voting machine that shreds it, will you still feel better? nm rhett o rick Nov 2014 #169

So the Republicans do give something to vote FOR treestar Nov 2014 #144

Coy doesn't work well for you.. SomethingFishy Nov 2014 #152

+1000 Kilgore Nov 2014 #69

Yes, this is true and it's right to point it out. Yo_Mama Nov 2014 #110

^^^^ This! I wish I could recommend your post. deafskeptic Nov 2014 #114

BOTH have to be done. Enough SHITTY EXCUSES FOR NOT VOTING ! That said, yes, Dems need to figure RBInMaine Nov 2014 #126

It seems downright impossible treestar Nov 2014 #150

+1000 h2ebits Nov 2014 #141

It is their fault treestar Nov 2014 #142

I'm simply claiming that the R's did a better job at "selling" than us. branford Nov 2014 #154

Amen and this from the same continent complaining about the corporat-ocracy treestar Nov 2014 #139

"We suck, but we suck less than they do" doesn't motivate people very much. LuvNewcastle Nov 2014 #2

That idea sucks so bad but I don't have the words right upaloopa Nov 2014 #7

As I've said frequently here in past years . . . markpkessinger Nov 2014 #12

Hey potential voter, you're stupid and lazy, don't forget to vote Democratic! branford Nov 2014 #22

Oh Gosh - I wish you hadn't typed that out loud - truedelphi Nov 2014 #49

It didn't hurt Repubs StarlightGold Nov 2014 #78

who else are they going to vote for? Mnpaul Nov 2014 #87

That is the Third Way� message AgingAmerican Nov 2014 #37

We don't suck treestar Nov 2014 #146

Yep. 99th_Monkey Nov 2014 #3

I really don't believe I am reading all these upaloopa Nov 2014 #4

Perhaps we need to be looking more deeply at the question of WHY they didn't vote . . . markpkessinger Nov 2014 #6

I agree. But reasoned analysis will return only after the hurt and anger has been vented. GliderGuider Nov 2014 #8

That's a fair point . . . markpkessinger Nov 2014 #10

Let me ask you this. How are they going to get upaloopa Nov 2014 #11

You don't have to actually get it done jeff47 Nov 2014 #13

A reason to vote for something that can never be upaloopa Nov 2014 #14

Voting against all odds, to many, is called standing on principle, branford Nov 2014 #23

You make a good case but I upaloopa Nov 2014 #25

The thing is.. We did.. It's not us we are talking about... SomethingFishy Nov 2014 #118

And how did they manage with a fully Dem congress? Dems2002 Nov 2014 #30

+ 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!! WillyT Nov 2014 #42

I have nothing more to add upaloopa Nov 2014 #44

"wimps who are terrified of pissing off the monied interests more than the people" DING DING DING! L0oniX Nov 2014 #90

I can't reply it doesn't deserve a reply. upaloopa Nov 2014 #9

didn't not vote ever4lasting Nov 2014 #18

We have a republican Congress that upaloopa Nov 2014 #26

The GOP ensures government can't work, and when it doesn't ... JoePhilly Nov 2014 #127

Or you quit doing.. sendero Nov 2014 #52

and because less of them were disenfranchised noiretextatique Nov 2014 #119

Nothing is more pathetic than wannabe leaders who complain that the led are not following. nt bemildred Nov 2014 #16

You got that right! n/t markpkessinger Nov 2014 #76

So Russ Feingold Lost in 2010 because his "product" just wasn't "selling" ? JI7 Nov 2014 #17

Not at all -- that would be the logical fallacy of illicit transference . . . markpkessinger Nov 2014 #111

BS that was a good question for your position treestar Nov 2014 #147

I was wondering when someone was going to bring his name up in 1 of these threads. Major Hogwash Nov 2014 #122

Agree, but turn out is the big reason why the Republican's won. davishenderson265 Nov 2014 #19

No doubt . . . markpkessinger Nov 2014 #48

This shows a complete ignorance of voting patterns in America Johonny Nov 2014 #21

Apparently, poor conservative whites came out in sufficient numbers for the Republicans. branford Nov 2014 #24

I think the mid-term base changed after 1994 LeftInTX Nov 2014 #43

Good point. Rush's echo chamber on the radio from the late 80s helped them a lot in 1994. Major Hogwash Nov 2014 #121

Those are good points, in my opinion. nt ZombieHorde Nov 2014 #131

Most people barely knew there was an election, people under 35 dont randys1 Nov 2014 #29

Yep...it's not the same as us here obsessing about politics LeftInTX Nov 2014 #32

Hell, I asked a guy making MW if he was gonna vote to raise it, he had no clue randys1 Nov 2014 #33

Getting folks to turn out for Presidential elections is usually much easier . . . markpkessinger Nov 2014 #34

But think of it this way: We simply made a crappy movie and no one wanted to stand in line to see it stupidicus Nov 2014 #35

Let me put it another way . . . markpkessinger Nov 2014 #38

Awful analogy. rury Nov 2014 #39

As branford stated earlier in this thread . . . markpkessinger Nov 2014 #40

'Sold' like any other product? So our principles are reduced to business terms now? randome Nov 2014 #70

Oh please . . . . markpkessinger Nov 2014 #75

^This^ is why we are not winning more elections. Curmudgeoness Nov 2014 #175

Yeah, the Environment in Crisis with Global Climate Chance isn't enough to get these whiners out of Cha Nov 2014 #106

Brecht says it best MisterP Nov 2014 #41

An aceint adage erlewyne Nov 2014 #46

This should be a part of reasoning for voting, for the members,of Congress who Thinkingabout Nov 2014 #51

I have not advocated, in any way, for anyone not to vote . . . markpkessinger Nov 2014 #53

Let me say I have not listed you as being an advocate foe not voting, I am Thinkingabout Nov 2014 #94

I never offered any excuses for anyone's decision not to vote . . . markpkessinger Nov 2014 #104

Let me say this, I am in the autumn of my life, I have voted all of my life, Thinkingabout Nov 2014 #109

The voters showed up... Spazito Nov 2014 #57

63.4, actually. Sorry, it bothers me. randome Nov 2014 #67

Oops, you're right, it bothers me as well... Spazito Nov 2014 #71

I have finally learned there is no difference between a voter who gives up and a President ... DrBulldog Nov 2014 #58

a symptom...but what is the disease? ollie4 Nov 2014 #61

The disease is... blackspade Nov 2014 #82

they are selling us a hatful of shit and claiming it's a chocolate cake yurbud Nov 2014 #63

You may have a vision problem if all you can see is shit. randome Nov 2014 #66

ask a K-12 teacher what they see. Obamacare did some good, but a lot of the good is done only when yurbud Nov 2014 #98

I don't think so tooeyeten Nov 2014 #64

The issue of taking personal responsibility for one's civic duty . . . markpkessinger Nov 2014 #80

Scolding? tooeyeten Nov 2014 #112

Appropriate perhaps. But helpful? n/t markpkessinger Nov 2014 #113

Absolutely tooeyeten Nov 2014 #115

It's always someone else's fault, isn't it? randome Nov 2014 #65

Who would the "someone else" be? markpkessinger Nov 2014 #79

I agree 100% that the party needs better messaging. randome Nov 2014 #125

Epic irony. Marr Nov 2014 #137

All the Democratic junk mail I got made them seem like scam artists. Kablooie Nov 2014 #73

"We suck less than the other guy" is not a good motivator for voters. Odin2005 Nov 2014 #81

Spot on! n/t markpkessinger Nov 2014 #89

I'd bet that a lot of people were not voting FOR Republicans but AGAINST Democrats. Kablooie Nov 2014 #103

Yep. It's classic "throw the bums out!" behavior. Odin2005 Nov 2014 #105

Yep, they couldn't vote against Obama himself who they were conditioned to hate... cascadiance Nov 2014 #140

You are right, which is why I won't read these posts Eleanors38 Nov 2014 #84

I wish I could recommend this post a hundred times... I hate liars Nov 2014 #85

Only if you view candidates as a product and not a servant. joshcryer Nov 2014 #86

When they are elected they are (or are supposed to be) servants . . . markpkessinger Nov 2014 #88

No, they are servants. The mass media makes a product. joshcryer Nov 2014 #91

People do this all the time quaker bill Nov 2014 #92

Well said. Thank you! markpkessinger Nov 2014 #97

solutions,solutions and more solutions aspirant Nov 2014 #124

There is always good reason for some introspection quaker bill Nov 2014 #128

They showed up. Their votes weren't counted. ucrdem Nov 2014 #116

I agree...it is foolish hubris noiretextatique Nov 2014 #120

The problem was largely turnout, but it's not the party that should blame the voters, hughee99 Nov 2014 #123

So minimum wage increases weren't worth showing up for? Marijuana legalization wasn't worth showing Chathamization Nov 2014 #129

I hope someone fredamae Nov 2014 #130

How did gerrymandering affect Senate and gubernatorial races? branford Nov 2014 #133

In texas, where you could legally use hunters license to vote but not a student ID... cascadiance Nov 2014 #136

I fully support efforts to oppose voter suppression, branford Nov 2014 #149

I'm not conceding that we should have voter ID... cascadiance Nov 2014 #155

My point was not to support voting ID requirements branford Nov 2014 #162

The party did not lose this election randr Nov 2014 #132

It's actually funny to me that the self-described "reality-based community" is arguing with you. Marr Nov 2014 #134

Rahm Emanuel calling liberals "f-ing retarded" epitomizes a symptom of blaming the voters disease... cascadiance Nov 2014 #135

I would think you would not believe it involved selling something treestar Nov 2014 #138

The party has not made it clear that there is a meaningful advantage to voting for Dems. Marr Nov 2014 #143

Why does the party have to do that? treestar Nov 2014 #148

Because it wants... votes? Marr Nov 2014 #153

Gee, I think they probably do that treestar Nov 2014 #157

Yeah helping to "fast track" American job destroying TPP behind closed doors helps get votes huh? cascadiance Nov 2014 #158

Can you Orthodox Dems get your position straight at least? BlindTiresias Nov 2014 #156

How about you provide evidence that more progressive and leftist candidates branford Nov 2014 #165

It's not about one election. Marr Nov 2014 #170

"Pro-working class" is an expression without meaning branford Nov 2014 #176

If you really think that phrase has no meaning, then I'm not surprised you're Marr Nov 2014 #177

Actions speak louder than words. branford Nov 2014 #178

That's what hammering out a party platform is about. Marr Nov 2014 #179

It's more than just general platitudes in our platform. branford Nov 2014 #180

I didn't say the party would be more successful if it was both more socially and fiscally liberal. Marr Nov 2014 #181

It's also like CDC's Tom Frieden blaming nurses for spreading Ebola. When DWS and whereisjustice Nov 2014 #160

You should be DNC chair MannyGoldstein Nov 2014 #164

The symptom is apathy. Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2014 #166

This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Nov 2014 #167

Exactly. Android3.14 Nov 2014 #168

The mating habits of rodents was talked about often here IronLionZion Nov 2014 #172

K & R ctsnowman Nov 2014 #174