General Discussion

branford

(4,462 posts)

57. Alleged violent felonies should never be handled "in-house."

Sun Nov 9, 2014, 09:07 PM

Nov 2014

They are a serious criminal matter and should always be handled by the criminal justice system. College administrators lack the training, expertise and legal mandate to adjudicate criminal matters, and expose the university and administrators to significant liability to any mistakes or lack of due process.

Nevertheless, the decision to report a crime, particularly one with social ramifications like a sexual assault, should always be made by the alleged adult victim. An adult is more than capable of making such a decision, and a mandatory reporting requirement would only dissuade victims from seeking the advice and support of those professors and administrators whom they trust and worsen their ordeal.

An adult crime victim is nothing like a minor child or someone unable to care for themselves due to age, infirmity or mental disease or defect. Infantilizing adults is condescending and ultimately counterproductive to encouraging the reporting of sexual assaults.

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When a Student Confides a Rape, Should a Professor Have to Report It? [View all] Wella Nov 2014 OP

Yes they should Vattel Nov 2014 #1

No, absolutely not, unless the student is a minor. Donald Ian Rankin Nov 2014 #2

Agreed. dballance Nov 2014 #15

But the sooner it is reported, the better justice they will receive. moriah Nov 2014 #37

I agree, it needs to be left up to the victim davidpdx Nov 2014 #86

+1 nt Live and Learn Nov 2014 #17

+ 2 KMOD Nov 2014 #47

They have to consider the safety of other students kcr Nov 2014 #51

They do, but consider the two scenarios: Donald Ian Rankin Nov 2014 #79

I know. I understand that concern and share it. kcr Nov 2014 #92

ITA. nt raccoon Nov 2014 #96

Obama's Education Dept has been threatening to withhold funding from Vattel Nov 2014 #3

Ted Cruz could not have said it any better . geek tragedy Nov 2014 #6

Yes, let's use a preponderance of the evidence standard for criminal sexual assault cases. Vattel Nov 2014 #7

Now you are just making shit up. geek tragedy Nov 2014 #11

You missed my point. Vattel Nov 2014 #16

You have not specified what you mean by due process. geek tragedy Nov 2014 #18

No it is not. Clear and convincing evidence would be a much better standard, Vattel Nov 2014 #25

So, your complaint is that the new rule is that geek tragedy Nov 2014 #27

The Committee on Women in the Academic Profession of the AAUP is sooo right wing. What a joke. Vattel Nov 2014 #29

That was faculty addressing allegations made geek tragedy Nov 2014 #30

Read it again. It is a letter to the Dept of education arguing that they should withdraw Vattel Nov 2014 #31

The letter was about faculty and academic freedom. geek tragedy Nov 2014 #35

yes it was about using a preponderance of evidence standard for determining Vattel Nov 2014 #41

Yes, faculty concerns for academic freedom. As I said. nt geek tragedy Nov 2014 #44

so you agree with me that the preponderance of the ecidence standard is too high. Good. Vattel Nov 2014 #45

No I don't agree with you since this is a completely geek tragedy Nov 2014 #48

Try to keep up. The Dept. of Education is demanding a preponderance of evidence Vattel Nov 2014 #59

I don't have enough likes to give for your take down of this MRA idiocy alcibiades_mystery Nov 2014 #67

Universities are changing their burden of proof for faculty dismissals Vattel Nov 2014 #138

A different burden of proof is not lack of due process. Ms. Toad Nov 2014 #98

Thx for the introductory lecture on due process, but I don't really need it. Vattel Nov 2014 #126

Then you might want to edit this: Ms. Toad Nov 2014 #135

Do you really think there is no justice for men under university policies? moriah Nov 2014 #38

What I think is that the new policies are unjust because the burden of proof is absurdly low. Vattel Nov 2014 #43

So you think justice is served by forcing the university geek tragedy Nov 2014 #50

http://claremontindependent.com/title-ix-sexual-violence-the-preponderance-standard/ Vattel Nov 2014 #64

Universities are not equipped for investigations of felonies Wella Nov 2014 #63

Have you seen the "Dear Colleague" letter from DOE? Wella Nov 2014 #120

28 members of Harvard Law Faculty wrote the following letter. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2014 #28

They are so right on this one. Vattel Nov 2014 #32

What a shock--academics responsible for the failed policy geek tragedy Nov 2014 #33

Defendants are not rapists until convicted. "Alleged" is a very powerful word. branford Nov 2014 #56

And apparently victims aren't "victims" until their rapist has been convicted, in your eyes. n/t moriah Nov 2014 #123

What is your point about "victims?" branford Nov 2014 #125

The way rape apologists always refer to victims as "accusers", never "victims". moriah Nov 2014 #127

You really didn't address my point. branford Nov 2014 #129

My circumstances sucked. moriah Nov 2014 #133

Any other crimes that you are good with "Accusation is proof enough"? Oktober Nov 2014 #78

You prefer the sharia rule requiring three geek tragedy Nov 2014 #90

I prefer the American legal standard of "Innocent until proven guilty" Oktober Nov 2014 #94

This doesn't involve criminal proceedings and geek tragedy Nov 2014 #95

The point is spread across the posts in this thread... Oktober Nov 2014 #97

Am I interested in protecting rapists? No. nt geek tragedy Nov 2014 #99

Good thing you seem to magically know who is a rapist and who isn't.. Oktober Nov 2014 #101

First they came for the rapists, and I said nothing... nt Ykcutnek Nov 2014 #8

yes, lets get rid of due process for those accused of rape. That is so progressive. Vattel Nov 2014 #10

You are the one claiming without evidence that he geek tragedy Nov 2014 #12

Here is a hint: due process requires more than a preponderance of the evidence Vattel Nov 2014 #65

... Ykcutnek Nov 2014 #14

Title IX does not require a preponderance of the evidence standard. The AAUP is opposed to that Vattel Nov 2014 #139

HOW is reporting something to the police doing away with due process? uppityperson Nov 2014 #22

I am in favor of that requirement. I was talking about something else. Vattel Nov 2014 #26

The police WILL give you due process: the university, not so much Wella Nov 2014 #112

You don't understand the legal issues here BainsBane Nov 2014 #137

You don't understand the legal issues here. Vattel Nov 2014 #141

LOL, no. Still at it, I see! bettyellen Nov 2014 #132

Of course BainsBane Nov 2014 #136

Yes absolutely! jen63 Nov 2014 #4

Telling the police without their consent *is* ignoring them. Donald Ian Rankin Nov 2014 #20

It isn't being ignored -- it's not forcing them to get involved with the police pnwmom Nov 2014 #70

Not if the student is an adult. ZombieHorde Nov 2014 #5

On my campus, faculty and staff who become aware of a sexual assault petronius Nov 2014 #9

right marions ghost Nov 2014 #93

Nope... Oktober Nov 2014 #13

Only if you don't want rape victims to be able to confide in a professor. Live and Learn Nov 2014 #19

Yes, 100% in agreement. n/t KMOD Nov 2014 #49

If they're going down this road for adults, they had better be prepared Jefferson23 Nov 2014 #21

I strongly believe in mandated reporting for those who are unable to stand for themselves, for uppityperson Nov 2014 #23

Almost all college students are legal adults bluestateguy Nov 2014 #24

I'm torn here. moriah Nov 2014 #34

That's largely how it is for us - the required report is not to police, but rather petronius Nov 2014 #53

Alleged violent felonies should never be handled "in-house." branford Nov 2014 #57

Of course they should Sgent Nov 2014 #82

A student hasn't "committed a felony" until they're actually convicted of a felony. branford Nov 2014 #85

I went to college as a minor. Still 16 when I had my first class, lived on-campus. moriah Nov 2014 #119

Your post proves my argument. branford Nov 2014 #121

I love the word "accuser". It's easy to see where sympathies lie. moriah Nov 2014 #122

Yes, you were an accuser until an adjudication, branford Nov 2014 #124

So you say that I wasn't raped unless a jury says so? moriah Nov 2014 #128

Simply, no. I've said nothing of the sort. branford Nov 2014 #130

I'm thinking what you are. bettyellen Nov 2014 #131

Report that a rape occurred, but with no id'ing geek tragedy Nov 2014 #36

the overwhelming answer would be "yes" after the Jerry Sandusky scandal. nt alp227 Nov 2014 #39

It is different for adult victims than it is for minors. pnwmom Nov 2014 #71

Regardless, rape is rape. I don't like the semantics being played in this thread between children & alp227 Nov 2014 #75

Rape is rape. But adults have the right not to report if they choose to not report. pnwmom Nov 2014 #76

Do you really believe the differences between an adult and minor child to be mere semantics? branford Nov 2014 #87

FUCK NO Niko Nov 2014 #40

This would be like raping the woman twice. dilby Nov 2014 #42

Everywhere I worked as a professor, expressed danger to self and others HereSince1628 Nov 2014 #46

Lack of confidentiality is not remotely the same as mandatory reporting. branford Nov 2014 #58

I'm not teaching anymore, it's now mandatory at many schools HereSince1628 Nov 2014 #60

Universities are not populations of at risk minors. branford Nov 2014 #61

This message was self-deleted by its author alcibiades_mystery Nov 2014 #69

No loyalsister Nov 2014 #52

If the incident could be reported to campus safety Puzzledtraveller Nov 2014 #54

I went to college at seventeen. AngryAmish Nov 2014 #55

They should respect the student's wishes and keep their trust daredtowork Nov 2014 #62

This message was self-deleted by its author alcibiades_mystery Nov 2014 #68

huh? daredtowork Nov 2014 #72

This message was self-deleted by its author alcibiades_mystery Nov 2014 #66

So you'd report it to the university power structure before the young woman goes to the real police? Wella Nov 2014 #73

Having just completed Title IX orientation a week ago renegade000 Nov 2014 #74

+1 Hekate Nov 2014 #81

FERPA Sgent Nov 2014 #84

No, but they should encourage it. Behind the Aegis Nov 2014 #77

In California, certain professionals are mandatory reporters regardless of victims's age Hekate Nov 2014 #80

Regardless of the victim's age? Wella Nov 2014 #113

Sadly this will have a chilling effect on student-faculty mentor relationships. aikoaiko Nov 2014 #83

Yes, because if you know about a crime, not reporting it is a crime. Jamastiene Nov 2014 #88

When I taught school, it was required to report it. eom mfcorey1 Nov 2014 #89

What grades? Orrex Nov 2014 #105

All mfcorey1 Nov 2014 #106

Kindergarten through post-grad college? Impressive! Orrex Nov 2014 #107

My point was that even before college, teachers had to report rape and ideations if they had mfcorey1 Nov 2014 #109

Well, that's kind of the key issue, isn't it? Orrex Nov 2014 #110

I would think school counselor to be a good idea. mmonk Nov 2014 #91

Yes. It's a crime. Tatiana Nov 2014 #100

I'm not a lawyer, but my guess is that unless the teacher's employer has a contractual statement ladjf Nov 2014 #102

No, they should not Stargazer09 Nov 2014 #103

Hey, maybe we could require the victim's photo to be posted publicly, too Orrex Nov 2014 #104

Crimes should be reported, correct? Am I missing something here? Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2014 #108

It depends on where you're reporting them Wella Nov 2014 #111

Journos wouldn't have any immunity in this situation... Blue_Tires Nov 2014 #114

There isn't a generally legal obligation to report a crime wickerwoman Nov 2014 #116

Okay, thanks. Could not decide if this was a Legal or a Moral question/obligation. Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2014 #117

No. It disempowers victims. wickerwoman Nov 2014 #115

I tend to agree in regards to adults, I would respect their wishes whichever way. n/t Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2014 #118

Most college students are legal adults . . . markpkessinger Nov 2014 #134

No (nt) bigwillq Nov 2014 #140

Absolutely yes Takket Nov 2014 #142