General Discussion

branford

(4,462 posts)

87. Do you really believe the differences between an adult and minor child to be mere semantics?

Mon Nov 10, 2014, 04:38 AM

Nov 2014

No one is denying the serious of a rape allegation, but society and the law treats adults and minors very differently.

For instance, sexual contact with a young child actually constitutes different crimes that "basic" rape , minors generally cannot consent to sexual contact, and the law often acts on its own to protect children when an adult has the choice to forgo a legal complaint.

All mandatory reporting statutes do with respect to adults, particularly young women, is to infantalize them, and if actually a victim of sexual violence, to deny them choice and free will for a second time. In purportedly looking out for their interests, society become their new abusers. Adult women are more than capable of deciding if, how and when to file a criminal or civil complaint if sexually assaulted.

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When a Student Confides a Rape, Should a Professor Have to Report It? [View all] Wella Nov 2014 OP

Yes they should Vattel Nov 2014 #1

No, absolutely not, unless the student is a minor. Donald Ian Rankin Nov 2014 #2

Agreed. dballance Nov 2014 #15

But the sooner it is reported, the better justice they will receive. moriah Nov 2014 #37

I agree, it needs to be left up to the victim davidpdx Nov 2014 #86

+1 nt Live and Learn Nov 2014 #17

+ 2 KMOD Nov 2014 #47

They have to consider the safety of other students kcr Nov 2014 #51

They do, but consider the two scenarios: Donald Ian Rankin Nov 2014 #79

I know. I understand that concern and share it. kcr Nov 2014 #92

ITA. nt raccoon Nov 2014 #96

Obama's Education Dept has been threatening to withhold funding from Vattel Nov 2014 #3

Ted Cruz could not have said it any better . geek tragedy Nov 2014 #6

Yes, let's use a preponderance of the evidence standard for criminal sexual assault cases. Vattel Nov 2014 #7

Now you are just making shit up. geek tragedy Nov 2014 #11

You missed my point. Vattel Nov 2014 #16

You have not specified what you mean by due process. geek tragedy Nov 2014 #18

No it is not. Clear and convincing evidence would be a much better standard, Vattel Nov 2014 #25

So, your complaint is that the new rule is that geek tragedy Nov 2014 #27

The Committee on Women in the Academic Profession of the AAUP is sooo right wing. What a joke. Vattel Nov 2014 #29

That was faculty addressing allegations made geek tragedy Nov 2014 #30

Read it again. It is a letter to the Dept of education arguing that they should withdraw Vattel Nov 2014 #31

The letter was about faculty and academic freedom. geek tragedy Nov 2014 #35

yes it was about using a preponderance of evidence standard for determining Vattel Nov 2014 #41

Yes, faculty concerns for academic freedom. As I said. nt geek tragedy Nov 2014 #44

so you agree with me that the preponderance of the ecidence standard is too high. Good. Vattel Nov 2014 #45

No I don't agree with you since this is a completely geek tragedy Nov 2014 #48

Try to keep up. The Dept. of Education is demanding a preponderance of evidence Vattel Nov 2014 #59

I don't have enough likes to give for your take down of this MRA idiocy alcibiades_mystery Nov 2014 #67

Universities are changing their burden of proof for faculty dismissals Vattel Nov 2014 #138

A different burden of proof is not lack of due process. Ms. Toad Nov 2014 #98

Thx for the introductory lecture on due process, but I don't really need it. Vattel Nov 2014 #126

Then you might want to edit this: Ms. Toad Nov 2014 #135

Do you really think there is no justice for men under university policies? moriah Nov 2014 #38

What I think is that the new policies are unjust because the burden of proof is absurdly low. Vattel Nov 2014 #43

So you think justice is served by forcing the university geek tragedy Nov 2014 #50

http://claremontindependent.com/title-ix-sexual-violence-the-preponderance-standard/ Vattel Nov 2014 #64

Universities are not equipped for investigations of felonies Wella Nov 2014 #63

Have you seen the "Dear Colleague" letter from DOE? Wella Nov 2014 #120

28 members of Harvard Law Faculty wrote the following letter. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2014 #28

They are so right on this one. Vattel Nov 2014 #32

What a shock--academics responsible for the failed policy geek tragedy Nov 2014 #33

Defendants are not rapists until convicted. "Alleged" is a very powerful word. branford Nov 2014 #56

And apparently victims aren't "victims" until their rapist has been convicted, in your eyes. n/t moriah Nov 2014 #123

What is your point about "victims?" branford Nov 2014 #125

The way rape apologists always refer to victims as "accusers", never "victims". moriah Nov 2014 #127

You really didn't address my point. branford Nov 2014 #129

My circumstances sucked. moriah Nov 2014 #133

Any other crimes that you are good with "Accusation is proof enough"? Oktober Nov 2014 #78

You prefer the sharia rule requiring three geek tragedy Nov 2014 #90

I prefer the American legal standard of "Innocent until proven guilty" Oktober Nov 2014 #94

This doesn't involve criminal proceedings and geek tragedy Nov 2014 #95

The point is spread across the posts in this thread... Oktober Nov 2014 #97

Am I interested in protecting rapists? No. nt geek tragedy Nov 2014 #99

Good thing you seem to magically know who is a rapist and who isn't.. Oktober Nov 2014 #101

First they came for the rapists, and I said nothing... nt Ykcutnek Nov 2014 #8

yes, lets get rid of due process for those accused of rape. That is so progressive. Vattel Nov 2014 #10

You are the one claiming without evidence that he geek tragedy Nov 2014 #12

Here is a hint: due process requires more than a preponderance of the evidence Vattel Nov 2014 #65

... Ykcutnek Nov 2014 #14

Title IX does not require a preponderance of the evidence standard. The AAUP is opposed to that Vattel Nov 2014 #139

HOW is reporting something to the police doing away with due process? uppityperson Nov 2014 #22

I am in favor of that requirement. I was talking about something else. Vattel Nov 2014 #26

The police WILL give you due process: the university, not so much Wella Nov 2014 #112

You don't understand the legal issues here BainsBane Nov 2014 #137

You don't understand the legal issues here. Vattel Nov 2014 #141

LOL, no. Still at it, I see! bettyellen Nov 2014 #132

Of course BainsBane Nov 2014 #136

Yes absolutely! jen63 Nov 2014 #4

Telling the police without their consent *is* ignoring them. Donald Ian Rankin Nov 2014 #20

It isn't being ignored -- it's not forcing them to get involved with the police pnwmom Nov 2014 #70

Not if the student is an adult. ZombieHorde Nov 2014 #5

On my campus, faculty and staff who become aware of a sexual assault petronius Nov 2014 #9

right marions ghost Nov 2014 #93

Nope... Oktober Nov 2014 #13

Only if you don't want rape victims to be able to confide in a professor. Live and Learn Nov 2014 #19

Yes, 100% in agreement. n/t KMOD Nov 2014 #49

If they're going down this road for adults, they had better be prepared Jefferson23 Nov 2014 #21

I strongly believe in mandated reporting for those who are unable to stand for themselves, for uppityperson Nov 2014 #23

Almost all college students are legal adults bluestateguy Nov 2014 #24

I'm torn here. moriah Nov 2014 #34

That's largely how it is for us - the required report is not to police, but rather petronius Nov 2014 #53

Alleged violent felonies should never be handled "in-house." branford Nov 2014 #57

Of course they should Sgent Nov 2014 #82

A student hasn't "committed a felony" until they're actually convicted of a felony. branford Nov 2014 #85

I went to college as a minor. Still 16 when I had my first class, lived on-campus. moriah Nov 2014 #119

Your post proves my argument. branford Nov 2014 #121

I love the word "accuser". It's easy to see where sympathies lie. moriah Nov 2014 #122

Yes, you were an accuser until an adjudication, branford Nov 2014 #124

So you say that I wasn't raped unless a jury says so? moriah Nov 2014 #128

Simply, no. I've said nothing of the sort. branford Nov 2014 #130

I'm thinking what you are. bettyellen Nov 2014 #131

Report that a rape occurred, but with no id'ing geek tragedy Nov 2014 #36

the overwhelming answer would be "yes" after the Jerry Sandusky scandal. nt alp227 Nov 2014 #39

It is different for adult victims than it is for minors. pnwmom Nov 2014 #71

Regardless, rape is rape. I don't like the semantics being played in this thread between children & alp227 Nov 2014 #75

Rape is rape. But adults have the right not to report if they choose to not report. pnwmom Nov 2014 #76

Do you really believe the differences between an adult and minor child to be mere semantics? branford Nov 2014 #87

FUCK NO Niko Nov 2014 #40

This would be like raping the woman twice. dilby Nov 2014 #42

Everywhere I worked as a professor, expressed danger to self and others HereSince1628 Nov 2014 #46

Lack of confidentiality is not remotely the same as mandatory reporting. branford Nov 2014 #58

I'm not teaching anymore, it's now mandatory at many schools HereSince1628 Nov 2014 #60

Universities are not populations of at risk minors. branford Nov 2014 #61

This message was self-deleted by its author alcibiades_mystery Nov 2014 #69

No loyalsister Nov 2014 #52

If the incident could be reported to campus safety Puzzledtraveller Nov 2014 #54

I went to college at seventeen. AngryAmish Nov 2014 #55

They should respect the student's wishes and keep their trust daredtowork Nov 2014 #62

This message was self-deleted by its author alcibiades_mystery Nov 2014 #68

huh? daredtowork Nov 2014 #72

This message was self-deleted by its author alcibiades_mystery Nov 2014 #66

So you'd report it to the university power structure before the young woman goes to the real police? Wella Nov 2014 #73

Having just completed Title IX orientation a week ago renegade000 Nov 2014 #74

+1 Hekate Nov 2014 #81

FERPA Sgent Nov 2014 #84

No, but they should encourage it. Behind the Aegis Nov 2014 #77

In California, certain professionals are mandatory reporters regardless of victims's age Hekate Nov 2014 #80

Regardless of the victim's age? Wella Nov 2014 #113

Sadly this will have a chilling effect on student-faculty mentor relationships. aikoaiko Nov 2014 #83

Yes, because if you know about a crime, not reporting it is a crime. Jamastiene Nov 2014 #88

When I taught school, it was required to report it. eom mfcorey1 Nov 2014 #89

What grades? Orrex Nov 2014 #105

All mfcorey1 Nov 2014 #106

Kindergarten through post-grad college? Impressive! Orrex Nov 2014 #107

My point was that even before college, teachers had to report rape and ideations if they had mfcorey1 Nov 2014 #109

Well, that's kind of the key issue, isn't it? Orrex Nov 2014 #110

I would think school counselor to be a good idea. mmonk Nov 2014 #91

Yes. It's a crime. Tatiana Nov 2014 #100

I'm not a lawyer, but my guess is that unless the teacher's employer has a contractual statement ladjf Nov 2014 #102

No, they should not Stargazer09 Nov 2014 #103

Hey, maybe we could require the victim's photo to be posted publicly, too Orrex Nov 2014 #104

Crimes should be reported, correct? Am I missing something here? Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2014 #108

It depends on where you're reporting them Wella Nov 2014 #111

Journos wouldn't have any immunity in this situation... Blue_Tires Nov 2014 #114

There isn't a generally legal obligation to report a crime wickerwoman Nov 2014 #116

Okay, thanks. Could not decide if this was a Legal or a Moral question/obligation. Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2014 #117

No. It disempowers victims. wickerwoman Nov 2014 #115

I tend to agree in regards to adults, I would respect their wishes whichever way. n/t Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2014 #118

Most college students are legal adults . . . markpkessinger Nov 2014 #134

No (nt) bigwillq Nov 2014 #140

Absolutely yes Takket Nov 2014 #142