General Discussion

Ravenna44

(40 posts)

61. Respectfully disagree

Sat Nov 15, 2014, 01:02 AM

Nov 2014

It sounds like you are saying that what blacks fight for is serious, but what women fight for is trivial. To you the sexygirl t-shirt thing is trivial, and the offense taken by women in response to it is trivial. And, er, that's... kinda the problem.

Having said that, I agree that the guy almost certainly didn't intend any harm, just as you probably don't intend any harm by implying that women's desire for respect is trivial; and just as all kinds of people who do all kinds of crappy stuff (trivial and otherwise) don't intend any harm. But if no one speaks up and says "Hey, that shirt? To a lotta women, that's pretty offensive; I know you don't get it but just listen and let us tell you why" - then the ignorant remain ignorant and the world is not likely to get better. And while I think you, dear commenter, are not going to change your mind even a little bit, maybe someone else reading these posts will. Attitudes change slowly, but over time they do change. There are plenty of people who - once they understand another person's perspective - want to respond with decency.

Best wishes.

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A pornographer (and atheist) explains why the science guy�s shirt crash-landed [View all] demmiblue Nov 2014 OP

Huge k&r for explaining it using small words. uppityperson Nov 2014 #1

Beautiful Tsiyu Nov 2014 #2

I don't understand how his management allowed him to wear it. tammywammy Nov 2014 #3

A good question mythology Nov 2014 #110

Agreed! That shirt would be considered 'sexual harassment' at any workplace in this country! LongTomH Nov 2014 #147

I bet he's worn it to work before...and I wonder how joeybee12 Nov 2014 #4

K&R F4lconF16 Nov 2014 #5

it also says hes a fooking idiot elehhhhna Nov 2014 #8

She's right and at the same time REP Nov 2014 #6

To mitigate the "prude" accusation. We've all seen it, even on DU. Luminous Animal Nov 2014 #10

That's what I mean - why should she or any woman have to do that? REP Nov 2014 #12

Because we know it's always coming, that's why Warpy Nov 2014 #33

Indeed. 90% of the time liberalhistorian Nov 2014 #73

Far as I can tell she's no more a "pornographer" than E. L. James. joshcryer Nov 2014 #82

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #230

Soft core, maybe. joshcryer Nov 2014 #233

we see it on here all the time, she has probably posted her opinion on various forums JI7 Nov 2014 #11

This was originally posted on her personal blog... demmiblue Nov 2014 #14

No, I get it. Sometimes we have to provide our 'bone fides' to be heard. As a genwah Nov 2014 #26

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #231

Yeah, no it doesn't blueboy2727 Nov 2014 #7

wow the point is lost on you elehhhhna Nov 2014 #9

Intentionally missed wryter2000 Nov 2014 #18

"ask women" blueboy2727 Nov 2014 #24

well guessthefuck what? elehhhhna Nov 2014 #43

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2014 #202

guessthefuck is my new favorite magic word! because you made that sucker disappear! bettyellen Nov 2014 #232

There is a reason why court after court after court ruled that "pin up girls" created Luminous Animal Nov 2014 #90

Exactly. This is not new ground. The new ground is wanting their mad men environment seabeyond Nov 2014 #92

Hey guys. We do not want to be visually assaulted with characterizations of ourselves Luminous Animal Nov 2014 #96

A woman does not have to be personally offended by this to make it offensive. Chemisse Nov 2014 #102

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2014 #203

Something tells me he doesn't liberalhistorian Nov 2014 #74

wow entitlement up in that quote elehhhhna Nov 2014 #105

Way to miss the point. blackspade Nov 2014 #13

I also thought he looked like an idiot. blueboy2727 Nov 2014 #25

newsflash - people who become scientists decide to do so in highschool. elehhhhna Nov 2014 #44

bullshit, it sends a sexist message to the women and men in his workplace-and so-is inappropriate. bettyellen Nov 2014 #60

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2014 #205

and there ia not one monolithic enemy. workplaces have standards- and they change, whether you like bettyellen Nov 2014 #212

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2014 #214

Nope. you have no idea how the women who work there feel, none made comments- bettyellen Nov 2014 #215

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2014 #216

Yes, right! Ravenna44 Nov 2014 #15

Most awesome first post evah wryter2000 Nov 2014 #21

please don't trivialize the civil rights movement with your ridiculous comparison blueboy2727 Nov 2014 #28

I'm an odd person, with odd tastes Scootaloo Nov 2014 #32

I agree that's it's tacky blueboy2727 Nov 2014 #34

The shirt is a piece of art. A one of a kind item. riderinthestorm Nov 2014 #55

Then he and the artist are both dumbasses mythology Nov 2014 #114

Right! Wearing an ugly shirt, shooting people Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #229

Respectfully disagree Ravenna44 Nov 2014 #61

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2014 #206

And there you have it, folks. liberalhistorian Nov 2014 #75

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2014 #208

Women's equality is trivial wryter2000 Nov 2014 #171

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2014 #209

now THAT is a freaking Grand Entrance. elehhhhna Nov 2014 #46

And I suppose you'be completely comfortable looking wryter2000 Nov 2014 #20

Life will not bend itself to accomodate your personal comfort blueboy2727 Nov 2014 #30

Damn well does in a work environment. Check out EEOC laws. seabeyond Nov 2014 #58

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2014 #201

in Europe? Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #237

Thank you so much for clarifying how us liberalhistorian Nov 2014 #76

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2014 #211

STEM fields are known for not only lack of women, but poor treatment of the women within them. nomorenomore08 Nov 2014 #169

Awesome wryter2000 Nov 2014 #16

Totally inapropriate. ozone_man Nov 2014 #17

About the TV crew saying, 'dude not cool' Boom Sound 416 Nov 2014 #19

It makes me so happy that this manchild is being destroyed for wearing a dirty shirt.. AngryAmish Nov 2014 #22

Ummm...no, never mind.... genwah Nov 2014 #27

Not sure if you were being sarcastic... Ravenna44 Nov 2014 #68

Generally these days, DU is bad on nuance riderinthestorm Nov 2014 #69

+2 nomorenomore08 Nov 2014 #170

welcome to DU! renate Nov 2014 #176

Yes! Thanks! Ravenna44 Nov 2014 #198

It is inappropriate, but the author's schtick is overwrought. True Blue Door Nov 2014 #23

Interesting point Ravenna44 Nov 2014 #29

Excellent post Tsiyu Nov 2014 #35

Here, you do seem to get it... hlthe2b Nov 2014 #145

Explain what I should be getting Tsiyu Nov 2014 #150

You must be confusing me with another poster... I agree with everything you wrote except the final hlthe2b Nov 2014 #152

I need a flow chart and I love you Tsiyu Nov 2014 #154

LOL.. no problem... hlthe2b Nov 2014 #155

Who sez being human isn't immense fun? Tsiyu Nov 2014 #156

You're conflating far too many unrelated or nebulously-related concepts. True Blue Door Nov 2014 #38

So should teachers be allowed to wear such designs in class? Tsiyu Nov 2014 #42

I said it's inappropriate in a professional context. True Blue Door Nov 2014 #57

As long as we're on the slippery slope, what about the guy's tattoos? Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #81

Of course he can wear the shirt! Ravenna44 Nov 2014 #93

One, he was in Europe. Two, are the women on the shirt really "half naked"? Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #98

I think he just had a d'oh moment when he woke up that morning and put it on. polly7 Nov 2014 #111

i think he probably did too. so it is unfortunate that so many are outraged for the fact that a seabeyond Nov 2014 #113

Kinda missing the 'poutage' from all the men who agreed, but whatever polly7 Nov 2014 #117

HUGE deal i tell you. making a statement is redefined by you as a HUGE deal. seabeyond Nov 2014 #119

Sorry, got better things to do than try to figure out what the * you're going on about. polly7 Nov 2014 #120

ya. you know. i dont get that. seabeyond Nov 2014 #122

No, I don't agree with you on pretty much anything ......... 'woman'. nt. polly7 Nov 2014 #126

you do. you know how i know? cause i often agree with you. seabeyond Nov 2014 #128

The shirt is simply idiotic typical sexism ismnotwasm Nov 2014 #142

Well that's convenient. Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #159

Agree! Ravenna44 Nov 2014 #133

+100 nomorenomore08 Nov 2014 #174

For me, it's not about the shirt itself, so much as the hysterical (yes, I'll use that word here) nomorenomore08 Nov 2014 #173

And yet, the two things are separate. Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #177

Or, the Twitter response may suggest that the *context* of the shirt (not the shirt per se) isn't so nomorenomore08 Nov 2014 #181

Except no, the argument that cartoon women on a shirt have anything to do with someone's Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #185

Fair enough. Like I said, it's how you look at it. n/t nomorenomore08 Nov 2014 #197

It is. I can simultaneously condemn the nasty twitter response of a few loudmouths Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #207

I've been waiting on you and here you are! Tsiyu Nov 2014 #107

I suspect that dude will never wear that shirt again. Hell, he may not ever wear ANY shirt again. Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #158

Omg hot Ravenna44 Nov 2014 #204

... Tsiyu Nov 2014 #223

right?!! suck it up, women!!!1! elehhhhna Nov 2014 #48

Sarcasm has to be based on reality to succeed. True Blue Door Nov 2014 #59

nice insult there Kali Nov 2014 #62

If all you have are unexplained, out-of-thin-air smears... True Blue Door Nov 2014 #63

slander? Kali Nov 2014 #64

Congratulations, you've now managed to be LESS than monosyllabic. True Blue Door Nov 2014 #65

Some of us have heard it before. Kali Nov 2014 #66

Have you ever heard yourself before? True Blue Door Nov 2014 #67

... Kali Nov 2014 #71

Still at a loss for thoughts, I see. True Blue Door Nov 2014 #72

Ah... I know who you are. Yes indeed. seabeyond Nov 2014 #79

Who am I? True Blue Door Nov 2014 #88

You are the Walrus Tsiyu Nov 2014 #108

Am not. :p True Blue Door Nov 2014 #217

They see socks everywhere. Hayabusa Nov 2014 #160

(sigh) Be nice if people had more ideas than suspicions. True Blue Door Nov 2014 #218

Trying to understand... Ravenna44 Nov 2014 #78

I mean that in Egypt, the revealed female form is sternly repressed. True Blue Door Nov 2014 #86

So, you have backpedaled to it shouldn't be worn at work yet no one judge. Clfdem seabeyond Nov 2014 #89

It was my position from the beginning that it was inappropriate in the workplace. True Blue Door Nov 2014 #94

You are changing the argument. You went from spiel attacking feminists, women and others seabeyond Nov 2014 #95

I consider myself a (male) feminist. True Blue Door Nov 2014 #99

The male feminist defining feminism for us women and telling us who seabeyond Nov 2014 #101

My penis means I have no legitimate opinion on sexual politics. Got it. True Blue Door Nov 2014 #104

you tell women to shut up and let you lead. kinda like me telling blacks and gays to shut up, seabeyond Nov 2014 #109

Absolutely nobody has said that. NaturalHigh Nov 2014 #234

Those who are privileged to not be in a systematically marginalized and oppressed tblue37 Nov 2014 #139

i think they get it and have learned to argue it to shut women up, and allow them to create seabeyond Nov 2014 #140

That is exactly it, and such a good post! KitSileya Nov 2014 #163

Thanks, Kit. nt tblue37 Nov 2014 #164

+1 nt laundry_queen Nov 2014 #165

of course you do, of course you are Kali Nov 2014 #132

Thanks for a polite response Ravenna44 Nov 2014 #100

I don't want to be accused of "mansplaining," so please understand True Blue Door Nov 2014 #103

Disagree with your theory Ravenna44 Nov 2014 #106

It is something like a "No Girls Allowed" sign, in a certain sense. Good way to put it. n/t nomorenomore08 Nov 2014 #178

It's inappropriate for the work environment because both the innocent message True Blue Door Nov 2014 #219

you leave out all histories reality of oppression to create this lovefest of supposed equality. seabeyond Nov 2014 #112

What the fuck are you talking about? True Blue Door Nov 2014 #220

It all boils down to this: "So it's hard to empathize." I truly get that. You are far from being seaglass Nov 2014 #115

I know I'm not, judging by some of the responses I've gotten. True Blue Door Nov 2014 #221

You know what? I love attractive females bodies too. nomorenomore08 Nov 2014 #175

Lol agreed! Ravenna44 Nov 2014 #188

Well said. n/t nomorenomore08 Nov 2014 #195

You're welcome to be a private person in your pleasures. True Blue Door Nov 2014 #222

The shirt was a gift to him vdogg Nov 2014 #31

For luck? Literally an epic fail for the guy. lexington filly Nov 2014 #36

The shirt was designed and created by a woman. riderinthestorm Nov 2014 #52

She bought existing fabric & sewed it together. Demit Nov 2014 #134

I can't do it and don't know anyone else who could riderinthestorm Nov 2014 #136

That's all very nice, but my point was she didn't design the fabric. Demit Nov 2014 #137

I'm sorry. You appear to be denigrating her abilities riderinthestorm Nov 2014 #141

Good grief! She can sew. A lot of people sew, even if you don't know any. Demit Nov 2014 #143

There are stores that sell patterns. tammywammy Nov 2014 #148

LOL, it is a skill- there is nothing artistic about buying fabric and a pattern and sewing. bettyellen Nov 2014 #146

IKR? laundry_queen Nov 2014 #166

yup- some sewers I have worked with professionally are masters, some just passable. bettyellen Nov 2014 #167

Just because the shirt was designed by a woman justiceischeap Nov 2014 #53

and just because a pornographer and an atheist thinks this shirt is porny Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #87

the only thing wrong with that shirt d_b Nov 2014 #37

That's what I noticed second (and quickly) about the picture customerserviceguy Nov 2014 #40

no, he's clearly a diabolical minion of the patriarchy d_b Nov 2014 #41

Yeah, I guess I hadn't considered that customerserviceguy Nov 2014 #45

Lol d_b Nov 2014 #49

I thought you'd enjoy that! n/t customerserviceguy Nov 2014 #51

You meet so many in this life Tsiyu Nov 2014 #47

kinda how it looks from here. elehhhhna Nov 2014 #50

pornagrapher... awoke_in_2003 Nov 2014 #39

Probably not as fast as when you tell them you're a bass player. bluesbassman Nov 2014 #56

bass player, pornagrapher awoke_in_2003 Nov 2014 #70

I think those other guys make a lot more dough. bluesbassman Nov 2014 #77

I really don't see the big deal with the shirt. woolldog Nov 2014 #54

I think she'd have more of a point if the shirt really was just pictures of naked women. Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #80

My take is 80s scifi. joshcryer Nov 2014 #84

He may have gotten carried away by the excitement over "mohawk guy" at JPL Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #85

You make an interesting point. joshcryer Nov 2014 #91

I like wearable art, but it's an ugly shirt IMHO. Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #97

There would have been no fuss really Tsiyu Nov 2014 #118

i knew nothing about this. watched the OPs stay on top of first page, and never entered. seabeyond Nov 2014 #121

Oh, yeah Tsiyu Nov 2014 #124

the flipside. a girl, young, inexperienced is raped on video. it is distriuted, seen, for male seabeyond Nov 2014 #127

It's pretty sickening Tsiyu Nov 2014 #129

and what is really ironic. these men are saying the shirt was inappropriate. seabeyond Nov 2014 #130

Excellent questions. I wonder about many of the same things myself, from my vantage point as a man. nomorenomore08 Nov 2014 #184

This is all very true....nt riderinthestorm Nov 2014 #131

woman. and it is you and the others i run into on threads like these, that thrill me to staying on seabeyond Nov 2014 #135

No, there are two separate issues. Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #157

It does have that "Heavy Metal" (the movie, not the music genre) sort of vibe to it. nomorenomore08 Nov 2014 #183

I can see clearly that there are faces of women on it. Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #187

The print Jesus Malverde Nov 2014 #186

The shirt is poor taste, that's about it. joshcryer Nov 2014 #83

Here's a pic of the woman who made that shirt. leeroysphitz Nov 2014 #116

here is the bottom line. we have a culture working hard as creating all women as mens porn. seabeyond Nov 2014 #125

Way to TOTALLY miss the point hlthe2b Nov 2014 #138

What's the point? Tsiyu Nov 2014 #144

The point is the shirt was inappropriate in a workplace. tammywammy Nov 2014 #149

Are you kidding me? leeroysphitz Nov 2014 #151

I have absolutely no idea what you are saying Tsiyu Nov 2014 #153

Lol! Ravenna44 Nov 2014 #190

keep yourself safe for sure Tsiyu Nov 2014 #192

I love old and crotchety women! Ravenna44 Nov 2014 #196

I have no doubt you are raising awesome kids Tsiyu Nov 2014 #200

I'm not really bothered by the shirt in general, but MerryBlooms Nov 2014 #123

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #161

Go, Ana! polly7 Nov 2014 #162

It's fucking ridiculous. Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #168

What you call "delicate flowers" I call people who USE THEIR BRAINS instead of blindly accepting alp227 Nov 2014 #182

Well, many women who USE THEIR BRAINS polly7 Nov 2014 #189

One can be sex-positive without being unnecessarily raunchy. alp227 Nov 2014 #191

I doubt he thought much about shoving anything in anyone's face, and that it was just probably polly7 Nov 2014 #193

"We've all done things that have offended someone at one time or another." alp227 Nov 2014 #194

So??? polly7 Nov 2014 #199

You must have seen another shirt. That one was ugly, not sexually explicit n/t Violet_Crumble Nov 2014 #224

Interesting Ravenna44 Nov 2014 #210

Or maybe, just maybe, Ana Kasparian isn't an "Uncle Tom" as you put it, and maybe she's NOT saying Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #225

You did not read my post I think Ravenna44 Nov 2014 #227

I'm a troll? Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #228

Exactly right. n/t lumberjack_jeff Nov 2014 #213

honest question joglee Nov 2014 #172

the opinion of "a pornographer" only becomes relevant to some when making a point they agree with Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #179

Was too busy to notice "shirtstorm". Let me get this straight LittleBlue Nov 2014 #180

Yup. In a nutshell. That shirt completely negated the whole thing. For some. n/t djean111 Nov 2014 #226

One of the most significant scientific accomplishments of all time... NaturalHigh Nov 2014 #235

Remember when we all laughed at John Ashcroft for covering up the boobs on the statue? Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #236