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Douglas Carpenter

(20,226 posts)

15. you're showing exactly what I pointed out above - Hart's charge disrupted the Mondale inevitability

Tue Nov 18, 2014, 10:13 AM

Nov 2014

that the "centrist" of that time were proclaiming. Everyone who was politically aware at all at that time knew that the whole establishment party had proclaimed Mondale the nominee before the process even begin. When Hart made a surprise impressive second place showing in Iowa followed by a completely unpredicted win in New Hampshire - the establishment center of the party was completely caught by surprised. That is what made the 1984 nomination process open at all. It is not what the establishment center of that time had in mind. I don't know why it is considered such a bad thing to have an open democratic process in selecting a nominee. I don't know why it is considered such a good thing to consider the issue all settled years in advance. Who knows? - Maybe in 2016 the inevitability of Hillary will be disrupted too.

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This message was self-deleted by its author [View all] Douglas Carpenter Nov 2014 OP

At this point, I believe "the Centrists" must honestly believe that the rest of us have djean111 Nov 2014 #1

Treason? Over-react much? brooklynite Nov 2014 #2

Vanilla Rhapsody. cali Nov 2014 #4

:>))))) pangaia Nov 2014 #6

yes it went on for months because Gary Hart came out of no where and made it a race Douglas Carpenter Nov 2014 #5

The 'choice' we have today is an illusion. LuvNewcastle Nov 2014 #3

Exactly...Its all theater for FOOLS...even democrats have STUPID. billhicks76 Nov 2014 #7

Hillary Was President Of The College Republicans billhicks76 Nov 2014 #8

Her and Liz Warren were planning the repub takeover bigwillq Nov 2014 #11

Actually and factually, in 1984 Hillary was Democratic First Lady of Arkansas while Elizabeth Warren Bluenorthwest Nov 2014 #14

The choice some of us want is not between Hillary and Liz Warren - it is a choice between djean111 Nov 2014 #26

You know my point is that it is shitty and incorrect to claim Hillary was a Republican in 1984 Bluenorthwest Nov 2014 #71

IMO, that consideration of the problem is way too simple. HereSince1628 Nov 2014 #9

it was made absolutely clear from the beginning that Mondale was the inevitable nominee although Douglas Carpenter Nov 2014 #10

Mondale had establishment backing and was positioned to play rule changes HereSince1628 Nov 2014 #12

Thanks, brooklynite, for questioning this OP wyldwolf Nov 2014 #13

you're showing exactly what I pointed out above - Hart's charge disrupted the Mondale inevitability Douglas Carpenter Nov 2014 #15

what centrists were proclaiming Mondale's inevitability? wyldwolf Nov 2014 #17

first of all in 1984 Mondale himself would have been considered centrist in that time Douglas Carpenter Nov 2014 #18

"in 1984 Mondale himself would have been considered centrist" wyldwolf Nov 2014 #20

frankly, it was a more liberal time - the center has moved Douglas Carpenter Nov 2014 #21

there you go again. wyldwolf Nov 2014 #22

what you are not getting is that Mondale was a "centrist" of that time - the people Douglas Carpenter Nov 2014 #23

except he wasn't. And besides, that isn't what your OP alleges. wyldwolf Nov 2014 #24

you're defining conservative Democrats as centrist - political realities of today Douglas Carpenter Nov 2014 #25

No, actually I'm not. Conservative Dems had already bolted for Reaganland wyldwolf Nov 2014 #32

can you not at least TRY to be a little bit civil? after all if Hillary wins the Democratic Douglas Carpenter Nov 2014 #37

It's difficult when someone keeps stretching their 'theory' to counteract... wyldwolf Nov 2014 #41

recognizing that liberalism was once in the mainstream center of the Democratic Party is not Douglas Carpenter Nov 2014 #42

Mondale courted conservatives AgingAmerican Nov 2014 #62

quote the relevant parts that prove the OP wyldwolf Nov 2014 #75

Maybe in "liberal San Francisco". OilemFirchen Nov 2014 #28

The Hart "Monkey Business" scandal did not take place until June 1987 - that was a non issue in 1984 Douglas Carpenter Nov 2014 #29

My mistake. OilemFirchen Nov 2014 #35

but those ideas were mainsteam and in the middle of the Democratic party at the time Douglas Carpenter Nov 2014 #39

Debatable and irrelevant. OilemFirchen Nov 2014 #44

there seems to be a group of people who seem to think that to suggest any candidate other than Douglas Carpenter Nov 2014 #46

I doubt it. OilemFirchen Nov 2014 #53

in 1984 the party establishment did in fact for the most part rally behind Douglas Carpenter Nov 2014 #56

Pull the other one. OilemFirchen Nov 2014 #57

I am defining the word as implying someone is in the center or middle range Douglas Carpenter Nov 2014 #58

Except that it wasn't. OilemFirchen Nov 2014 #59

It's the very reason Carter selected Mondale wyldwolf Nov 2014 #40

There's historical facts, then there are Douglas Carpenter's version wyldwolf Nov 2014 #36

And the jury results are in.... aikoaiko Nov 2014 #43

According to this article, you are wrong AgingAmerican Nov 2014 #63

quote the relevant parts that prove the OP wyldwolf Nov 2014 #73

The facts are not on your side unrepentant progress Nov 2014 #47

he was supported by virtually the entire party estabishment from the beginning Douglas Carpenter Nov 2014 #49

Okie dokie. I'll leave you to your ideological fantasy. unrepentant progress Nov 2014 #50

Mondale courted the conservative wing of the Dems AgingAmerican Nov 2014 #64

yeah thanks a lot for that article Douglas Carpenter Nov 2014 #74

You're basing your ENTIRE argument now on the opinion of Peter Rosenblatt. wyldwolf Nov 2014 #78

That's called politics....is Obama a Blue Dog? No.... Bluenorthwest Nov 2014 #87

but never enacted their policies. wyldwolf Nov 2014 #76

Now you are saying the OP is incorrect AgingAmerican Nov 2014 #77

The OP is incorrect wyldwolf Nov 2014 #81

With Centrists of the time AgingAmerican Nov 2014 #82

to include centrists. That's how coalitions are built. wyldwolf Nov 2014 #84

Well, nobody is declaring the nominating process over. MineralMan Nov 2014 #16

1984. I voted for Mondale, while others chose to extend Reagan policies. On election day 1984 there Bluenorthwest Nov 2014 #19

I'd say everyone does the same thing. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Nov 2014 #27

I was 30 that election and no one outside of New York, San Fran or LA considered Mondale a centrist Rowdyboy Nov 2014 #30

he was certainly in the middle of the Democratic Party at the time - I don't recall any liberal or Douglas Carpenter Nov 2014 #31

Fair point Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #33

frankly I agree Hillary is the front runner just as I would have agreed Mondale was the front runner Douglas Carpenter Nov 2014 #34

I don't disagree Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #38

Facts are pesky things, which is why the GOP hates facts. Your premise of the OP is without merit. greatlaurel Nov 2014 #45

this is divide and conquer now? Douglas Carpenter Nov 2014 #48

You stated that Mondale lost because he was too "centrist", which is clearly not true. greatlaurel Nov 2014 #52

no, I did NOT say that Mondale lost because he was too centrist. I said nothing of the sort whatsoev Douglas Carpenter Nov 2014 #54

Backtracking from your OP. greatlaurel Nov 2014 #60

"He was liberal but neither too far left or too far right" describes how most Democrats saw Mondale Douglas Carpenter Nov 2014 #61

Definition of centrist from Mirriam-Webster greatlaurel Nov 2014 #70

I was trying to make the point that let's not proclaim the 2016 nominating process all finished Douglas Carpenter Nov 2014 #79

It's hilarious that you and AgingAmerican are pimping this article. OilemFirchen Nov 2014 #90

At least you are all working off the same agenda for consistency. greatlaurel Nov 2014 #91

I am attacking the idea of the inevitability of Hillary a year and a half before a single primary Douglas Carpenter Nov 2014 #96

"We gotcha" AgingAmerican Nov 2014 #65

so how did is translate into his policies? wyldwolf Nov 2014 #66

You just moved the goalpost AgingAmerican Nov 2014 #67

No, I didn't let YOU move the goalposts wyldwolf Nov 2014 #68

Read the article AgingAmerican Nov 2014 #69

I posted the article. I read it. It doesn't address the OP wyldwolf Nov 2014 #72

Your article does not prove the OP. greatlaurel Nov 2014 #86

The article outlines what Mondale did AgingAmerican Nov 2014 #88

no one here has even suggested that Mondale lost because of his centrism - that is something you Douglas Carpenter Nov 2014 #92

I was around in 1984; I don't remember any of that. Care to cite something to support your claims? yellowcanine Nov 2014 #51

oh that is hard to say - probably Hart might have done a little better just being a younger Douglas Carpenter Nov 2014 #55

My point is that Mondale was not seen as the "inevitable" nominee. It was a competitive primary. yellowcanine Nov 2014 #80

once the Hart charge started a lot of that inevitability certainly evaporated - Douglas Carpenter Nov 2014 #83

I don't remember Mondale ever being "inevitable." Certainly John Glenn, Alan Cranston, Jesse yellowcanine Nov 2014 #94

I was around and in California at that time, I remember it like the other poster, not as you do. Bluenorthwest Nov 2014 #85

once the Hart campaign started soaring - ABSOLUTELY yes a lot of the inevitability notion Douglas Carpenter Nov 2014 #89

This OP is a classic Gish Gallop. greatlaurel Nov 2014 #93

Agree. Lot of backing and filling going on. And still no citations to back up any of the claims. yellowcanine Nov 2014 #95