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CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
16. I agree with most of your points
Wed Nov 19, 2014, 10:34 AM
Nov 2014

except I think that Assad's side was the one providing stability.

Our "side" and our interventions destroy stability. If we didn't initiate or support those interventions there would be less instability.

It seems that we are merely on a "side" with a whole bunch of countries which often have little in common at best and conflicting or hostile interests at worst. We don't stand for anything or at least no one believes us anymore when we say we do because the people we partner with, the techniques we use and the results we achieve don't match our rhetoric.

All our promises of liberal democracy ring hollow. Liberal democracy is being dismantled in the west and we are in no position to implement it anywhere else both morally, practically, militarily or financially.

And in fact, all the assumptions that there is a "we" are false. You and I and nearly everyone else has no real input on what happens. We are not part of this "we" that we talk about when we talk about American or western interventions. These decisions are made somewhere else outside of democratic control or oversight. The various countries involved (where they are "democracies&quot try to involve their voters as little as possible in these decisions and make plans and forge alliances behind the back of, and over the heads of their populations.

So, if "we" are going to get involved , I'd like it to be a real democratic "We the People" who inform these decisions with informed consent, not "We the Oligarchs" as it currently is. This is not possible at the moment because the MSM is owned by "We the Oligarchs", who have no intention of informing the populace of the real facts of any situation.


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CNN: ISIS Takes Libyan City. [View all] grahamhgreen Nov 2014 OP
We need the 28 pages released CJCRANE Nov 2014 #1
the DU supporters of US intervention must be feeling all warm and fuzzy KG Nov 2014 #2
We didnt make it any better but Ravenna44 Nov 2014 #3
By any metric, all of these countries were better off before we meddled. grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #4
Yes I think you and I think roughly the same Ravenna44 Nov 2014 #7
Welcome to DU. Your last paragraph sums things up quite well. Throd Nov 2014 #10
All true. What I have sadly come to believe is that Little of grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #12
Our allies supplied extremist fighters and weapons in both those cases. CJCRANE Nov 2014 #13
Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2014 #15
I agree with most of your points CJCRANE Nov 2014 #16
If the people there have agency daleo Nov 2014 #6
We need to drop moar bombs LittleBlue Nov 2014 #5
We need to get the heck out of the Middle East. bigwillq Nov 2014 #8
This happened more than a week ago. Glad CNN finally noticed. Comrade Grumpy Nov 2014 #9
Nice..... Looks like the factions that came to power when we helped destabilize Libya have joined grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #11
grumpy.... Rhinodawg Nov 2014 #14
We've occupied Libya? Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2014 #17
We've destabilize every semi-socialist semi-secular Arab country for the new world disorder, only grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #19
K&R Rhinodawg Nov 2014 #18
Yep. And, we expected gratitude for killing their people and wrecking their countries. Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2014 #20
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