General Discussion

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)

166. They cycled New Math twice during my teaching years.

Sun Nov 23, 2014, 11:44 PM

Nov 2014

I understand it well because I taught it. I also saw the harm done to those who could learn the procedures but simply did not have the thought process maturity to get the rest of it.

I guess I saw so much harm done to those who did not get it. The strange thing is we always taught math this way. Even my 2nd graders could add 100 + 20+ 4 to another number in that format. They got the ones, tens, hundreds part.

But I worry now that such high stakes testing is being used that more will be harmed.

So many really don't get it, yet they could do okay in math by performing procedures the simpler way.

It's about teaching why, when some can barely function in math anyway.

Yes, many do understand it right away. Yet many in spite of all our place value blocks and the hands on we did....just do not.

I think it should be taught, but I think a child should be judged on mastery on such a vital test.

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How would you answer this 1st grade test question. Explain your reasoning. [View all] madfloridian Nov 2014 OP

14-4-2? It is sort of how I do it in my head. bettyellen Nov 2014 #1

Seriously??? msanthrope Nov 2014 #2

I am so glad my kids are out of school B2G Nov 2014 #124

I guess I'd choose the "14-4-2", but I don't know what the petronius Nov 2014 #3

Same here, I have no idea what that's all about. arcane1 Nov 2014 #6

The kids call them "tens boxes" Codeine Nov 2014 #94

Hmmm. Interesting. I've been reading your comments throughout the thread and they make sense stevenleser Nov 2014 #188

It's giving the answer. joshcryer Nov 2014 #47

14-4-2 is how I do it. uppityperson Nov 2014 #4

I'm not entirely sure I even understand the question arcane1 Nov 2014 #5

Same here. LuvNewcastle Nov 2014 #12

I am with you .... make a ten. I take it the (14 - 4) makes the ten. = Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2014 #45

You would if you had been exposed to the lessons sammytko Nov 2014 #74

Yeah, that lack of context is where the "shock value" comes from. arcane1 Nov 2014 #123

The idea is to "make a 10" because it's easier to subtract from 10 than from a larger number. Why? demwing Nov 2014 #115

sort of like approximation? yurbud Nov 2014 #153

The only illustration that makes sense to me is the third box. RoverSuswade Nov 2014 #7

You have to fill in the bubble. The boxes all relate. madfloridian Nov 2014 #39

How do first grade minds work? joshcryer Nov 2014 #48

Exactly! sammytko Nov 2014 #75

Same here! joshcryer Nov 2014 #87

This isn't first grade math AgingAmerican Nov 2014 #140

14 - 4 - 2 ... because, 14 - 4 = 10, 10 - 2 = 8, = 14 - 6 = 8 n/t RKP5637 Nov 2014 #8

Freakin gibberish is WTF that is! I wouldn't even call it a math problem and I got as far as brewens Nov 2014 #9

I don't even get the question...... Dyedinthewoolliberal Nov 2014 #10

Time's up! Pass in your paper! LOL!!! n/t RKP5637 Nov 2014 #16

Can you please repeat that in English? cherokeeprogressive Nov 2014 #11

14 = 2 hands and 4 toes Downwinder Nov 2014 #13

It seems designed for failure. pacalo Nov 2014 #14

This is simple. Codeine Nov 2014 #99

It is simple. It's just hard for those of us that learned the memorization methods of old. AtheistCrusader Nov 2014 #175

I get what they did here. Control-Z Nov 2014 #15

That is not correct syntax. Rex Nov 2014 #17

It is when you're taught that way. Codeine Nov 2014 #95

The question is worded oddly. Jenoch Nov 2014 #18

This is simple math. Codeine Nov 2014 #106

You are correct Jenoch Nov 2014 #121

I frequently do the same. Jenoch Nov 2014 #189

This IS simple math. 14-6! Except they are teaching a specific way to calculate inside one's head. Threedifferentones Nov 2014 #180

The question is the key - "Which way to make a ten to solve..." csziggy Nov 2014 #19

The whole point seems to be to slow them down Wella Nov 2014 #55

Yeah, I lost interest in math once they made me write down the steps csziggy Nov 2014 #56

I don't think it works for most people in general Wella Nov 2014 #58

It must be a success, then csziggy Nov 2014 #59

That's why so many of us are opposed to Common Core Wella Nov 2014 #60

And my experience was 55 years ago, long before Common Core or New Math! csziggy Nov 2014 #61

Tin foil hat, here, but I think that was deliberate Wella Nov 2014 #62

I'm starting to suspect that - the education my nieces and nephews got was bad csziggy Nov 2014 #64

Why put foreign in there, unless you have something against foreignors? Bandit Nov 2014 #79

Because if they are foreign, they can be much more abused than American citizens Wella Nov 2014 #135

Thank you. Rote memorization is the best way to get such small math facts in Nay Nov 2014 #68

I'm with you on that. Wella Nov 2014 #136

They still teach rote memorization AgingAmerican Nov 2014 #141

Lol! CrispyQ Nov 2014 #114

Oh, how well I know the part about a clock with a face! csziggy Nov 2014 #127

14-4-2 gollygee Nov 2014 #20

Interesting reasoning bhikkhu Nov 2014 #21

It hasn't been taught this way. joshcryer Nov 2014 #50

Exactly. This codifies and teaches Codeine Nov 2014 #103

I have to agree. Many of the things I learned in school made no sense bhikkhu Nov 2014 #138

This is what they call "Everyday Math" Tree-Hugger Nov 2014 #22

The Chicago.edu site looked pretty logical Warpy Nov 2014 #65

That's the way it is done Tree-Hugger Nov 2014 #167

All math makes your head spin AgingAmerican Nov 2014 #142

That question is incoherent to educated adults (see the responses on this thread) Yavin4 Nov 2014 #23

It's only incomprehensible to us Codeine Nov 2014 #104

Traditional methods of adding and subtracting AgingAmerican Nov 2014 #143

Wrong. A kid is going to be exposed to this for the first time, and learn the method. AtheistCrusader Nov 2014 #174

As an engineer who tutored many kids in my past U4ikLefty Nov 2014 #24

We have a high percentage of foreign born in our district, and that has always been my argument pnwmom Nov 2014 #28

Actually I agree, but they were excetional math students, better than many US-born kids. U4ikLefty Nov 2014 #31

Yes, after they have a command of the basic math skills pnwmom Nov 2014 #41

I'm currently in a mood about division and 4th grade math in general. glowing Nov 2014 #119

It just makes me wonder dumbcat Nov 2014 #25

I think it's because the "eggheads" were education majors who always hated math pnwmom Nov 2014 #42

WHAT??????????????? I actually WAS one (English Lit here), and I say this "question" is BIZARRE. WinkyDink Nov 2014 #109

The question makes sense to kids taught Codeine Nov 2014 #113

I'm sure many things make sense to those "taught to understand." Scientology, e.g. The POINT, WinkyDink Nov 2014 #171

What question? pnwmom Nov 2014 #137

Uh....the OP? WinkyDink Nov 2014 #170

This shit is why I can't help my 5th grader with homework anymore. n/t DeadLetterOffice Nov 2014 #26

So kids who can barely read are confronted with word problems pnwmom Nov 2014 #27

Thank you. Rex Nov 2014 #29

Children haven't changed. That's the problem. pnwmom Nov 2014 #46

They really are, though. Codeine Nov 2014 #101

I have to agree - in the 70's, getting to algebra in high school was something bhikkhu Nov 2014 #169

Idiots are in charge of education. JEFF9K Nov 2014 #30

Welcome to common core Peregrine Nov 2014 #32

Why can't they just solve 14 - 6 ? world wide wally Nov 2014 #33

That's how I learned. 840high Nov 2014 #37

The worksheet will have the normal way on it as well. joshcryer Nov 2014 #52

They do. Codeine Nov 2014 #97

I think people assume that this is all they are taught AgingAmerican Nov 2014 #144

What the hell is this? Brigid Nov 2014 #34

I can't begin to guess what the question or the pictures or the examples SheilaT Nov 2014 #35

This "new math" is supposed to be helpful, right? ManiacJoe Nov 2014 #36

Is the question worded the same way that the lessons are worded in class?...nt SidDithers Nov 2014 #38

"How to make a ten" - what the fuck does that even mean? KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #40

All I could think of is how to make a 1 and 2. Rex Nov 2014 #51

It just means that 14-4=10. (nt) stone space Nov 2014 #81

Yeah, I figured it out from context eventually. But I wonder what KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #91

I'm not sure about how to make a ten, but I can see how to make a few $1000... Silent3 Nov 2014 #43

+1 nt Live and Learn Nov 2014 #70

Hit the nail on the head jamzrockz Nov 2014 #158

Base ten counting is messed up to start with. hunter Nov 2014 #44

Space-faring species? Shankapotomus Nov 2014 #69

Two of them. The one that works base 27 says... stone space Nov 2014 #80

Okay but Shankapotomus Nov 2014 #83

By counting their fingers and toes, I suppose. stone space Nov 2014 #85

Positional notation is not where five becomes the jokester. hunter Nov 2014 #130

Like Dr. Who... hunter Nov 2014 #125

My answer: ohheckyeah Nov 2014 #49

14-4-2 fob Nov 2014 #53

Umm. That seems poorly worded. bravenak Nov 2014 #54

I'm a fully credentialed substitute teacher who now LibDemAlways Nov 2014 #57

I was so traumatized cwydro Nov 2014 #63

14 - 4 - 2 Liberal_in_LA Nov 2014 #66

Congratulations, you pass first grade. Live and Learn Nov 2014 #71

I have a question about this...is it really better for most students HereSince1628 Nov 2014 #78

I agree with you. There are many who have great problems with this. madfloridian Nov 2014 #168

When's recess, my brain hurts. (nt) Inkfreak Nov 2014 #67

just home school DeadEyeDyck Nov 2014 #72

I don't even understand that TransitJohn Nov 2014 #73

14-4-2, because all the other choices involve '5' muriel_volestrangler Nov 2014 #76

14-6=14-(4+2)=14-4-2=10-2=8. That's how I'd do it without the instructions. (nt) stone space Nov 2014 #77

Really? Because as a small child I would've just said "14 - 6 = 8." Simplicity itself. WinkyDink Nov 2014 #111

In would have had to look at the addition table to do it that way. stone space Nov 2014 #134

And then show rock Nov 2014 #82

Just to be pedantic, thats "aleph" sub 0. sir pball Nov 2014 #156

I LOVE pedantic rock Nov 2014 #159

Nah, I don't stalk. sir pball Nov 2014 #161

First, I would go to class on the days when they explained how to get the correct answer... Iggo Nov 2014 #84

Aren't YOU just the Little Lord Fauntleroy. WinkyDink Nov 2014 #112

Heheheh. Iggo Nov 2014 #154

This is first grade. MineralMan Nov 2014 #86

Kids are information sponges. joshcryer Nov 2014 #89

I doubt it is first grade AgingAmerican Nov 2014 #145

I was a test subject of the "New Math" in the early 60's... PCIntern Nov 2014 #88

14 - 4 - 2 moriah Nov 2014 #90

I did not know... Sneak the freak Nov 2014 #92

The system they use now Codeine Nov 2014 #102

I doubt this is a first grade math lesson AgingAmerican Nov 2014 #146

That's first grade math. Codeine Nov 2014 #148

It's number theory AgingAmerican Nov 2014 #164

I have a little boy in the first grade. Codeine Nov 2014 #93

The way we learned math is equally weird, MineralMan Nov 2014 #96

Is he taught to draw a block of 10, and of 4, cross out the 4, and then draw another block of 10? muriel_volestrangler Nov 2014 #98

He probably did that twice. Codeine Nov 2014 #100

Having to draw it twice doesn't seem 'immediate' to me muriel_volestrangler Nov 2014 #105

I mean he used physical drawn-out tens-blocks Codeine Nov 2014 #110

What I mean is that the diagram in the question has 4 groups muriel_volestrangler Nov 2014 #120

Thank you for this! Now, I see what they were doing. n/t RKP5637 Nov 2014 #107

"Completely insane" is my considered answer. WinkyDink Nov 2014 #108

Do a simple math problem in your head. rickford66 Nov 2014 #116

I invented this approach as a kid back in the 70s. JoePhilly Nov 2014 #117

You don't have to memorize "8 + 7" TexasMommaWithAHat Nov 2014 #150

It's 14-4-2. LWolf Nov 2014 #118

Obviously, some of need a few refresher courses. I'll let Tom Lehrer explain it: Buns_of_Fire Nov 2014 #122

That was great! Better to understand what you're doing rather than get the right answer. madfloridian Nov 2014 #129

"rather than get the right answer." I'll take the right answer any day with my doctors. WinkyDink Nov 2014 #172

I'm going through this with my grandkids right now. They live with me and we do review every day. OregonBlue Nov 2014 #126

Your experience matches my own. Codeine Nov 2014 #131

Yes, it seems to be a new way of thinking and learning both math and reading and it seems to work. OregonBlue Nov 2014 #187

I don't even understand the question. Smarmie Doofus Nov 2014 #128

The notion is that adding or subtracting to and from a "ten" is quicker and easier Codeine Nov 2014 #133

So added steps are preferable to just knowing the values? "14" isn't exactly the national budget. WinkyDink Nov 2014 #173

But it's not about 14. Codeine Nov 2014 #178

I'm having eggs for breakfast! ScreamingMeemie Nov 2014 #132

I doubt that is first grade math AgingAmerican Nov 2014 #139

What are you on about? Codeine Nov 2014 #149

Yes they are AgingAmerican Nov 2014 #151

I don't understand the terminology. Warren Stupidity Nov 2014 #147

I don't even understand the question. yurbud Nov 2014 #152

A better question might be "Can you do this problem with your smart phone?" n/t Contrary1 Nov 2014 #155

Horrible, stupid, no good very bad question. It's a setup to discourage early. ancianita Nov 2014 #157

Hasn't discouraged my kids. Codeine Nov 2014 #162

I have a PhD in math and I don't get it Paula Sims Nov 2014 #160

This is simple number theory AgingAmerican Nov 2014 #163

The kids get it. Blue_In_AK Nov 2014 #165

They cycled New Math twice during my teaching years. madfloridian Nov 2014 #166

The smartass answer davidpdx Nov 2014 #176

14-4-2, because take away 4, get 10, 2 left of the original six, subtract 2 from 10, bingo. AtheistCrusader Nov 2014 #177

At least somebody gets the point. Codeine Nov 2014 #179

This method involves more steps, but less combinations of numbers to be memorised muriel_volestrangler Nov 2014 #183

Yes, let's have one more bit of knowledge never to be memorized. We can call school WinkyDink Nov 2014 #190

this might kill creativity and problem solving ecstatic Nov 2014 #181

that question doesn't even make sense to me. magical thyme Nov 2014 #182

Seems interesting. NCTraveler Nov 2014 #184

No correct answer there because it should be (14-4) - 2 yellowcanine Nov 2014 #185

My kids learned math this way Bettie Nov 2014 #186

And we all know nobody will do this multi-step nonsense when we have hand-held tech to do it for us. WinkyDink Nov 2014 #191

I seldom use tech for math Bettie Nov 2014 #192

We still need to know how to think. Codeine Nov 2014 #193