General Discussion

trotsky

(49,533 posts)

111. That's a very broad brush.

Mon Nov 24, 2014, 11:27 AM

Nov 2014

I think there are many Republicans who are open to our ideas. That's why we keep proselytizing, trying to convince others of our point of view as Democrats. I don't think that's a bad thing.

It is interesting that you note religion *should be* a personal thing - and I bet that up and down this room if that were truly the case, even the horrible nasty atheists that you attack would be willing to keep it to themselves. But you and I both know that religion is anything but personal in this world. Plenty of believers are making others live according to their beliefs. So given that we don't inhabit the ideal world you imagine, is there something then wrong with atheists who speak out against religion and its intrusion into the lives of others?

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Should Churches Be Taxed? [View all] Prophet 451 Nov 2014 OP

Hell, yes! QuebecYank Nov 2014 #1

Does that call for them ALL to be taxed though? Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #2

Churches can play politics. Just can't endorse or oppose individual candidates. joeglow3 Nov 2014 #16

Tax 'Em All!!! QuebecYank Nov 2014 #30

Rather a broad bursh, I think Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #40

Wait Munificence Nov 2014 #77

Keep the government out of churches and synogogues Emelina Nov 2014 #75

I think a lot depends on the church and what percentage of its holdings go to charity Wella Nov 2014 #3

What would you consider an acceptable percentage? Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #4

Not totally sure. I'd have to have more info on general operating expenses Wella Nov 2014 #5

That's fair enough Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #6

I saw that, but it leaves out education Wella Nov 2014 #8

I can't get Biblical about it Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #12

Fair enough. Wella Nov 2014 #14

Anyone paid a salary is taxed already TexasMommaWithAHat Nov 2014 #90

Tithes generally Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #94

I meant from a "moral" perspective TexasMommaWithAHat Nov 2014 #95

Option three is not a good option, because that is the status quo. cbayer Nov 2014 #124

Being British, I didn't know how US tax law works. Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #143

See #122 for an overview. cbayer Nov 2014 #146

Well, that's good because that is what happens currently. cbayer Nov 2014 #123

Churches are usually tax exempt because they are non-profit. branford Nov 2014 #7

I was under the impression that was already the law Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #10

The area of law is a little wobbly, and not my personal area of expertise. branford Nov 2014 #17

Sure but... Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #21

As I said, mutually assured destruction. branford Nov 2014 #23

Non-profit does not mean tax exempt Major Nikon Nov 2014 #68

+1 TexasMommaWithAHat Nov 2014 #91

This is the right answer. I'm glad you get it. cbayer Nov 2014 #125

Churches shouldn't even be legal Niko Nov 2014 #9

And that's just extremist nonsense n/t Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #11

Want to know what's extremist? Niko Nov 2014 #15

Yes, yes, you've fulfilled your proselytizing quota Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #18

Atheists can't proselytize Niko Nov 2014 #34

Bullshit Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #37

I agree with you. I went and googled and I was shocked at the number of articles MADem Nov 2014 #52

It's actually not all that common Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #53

The trend towards atheism as a faith is growing, as well. MADem Nov 2014 #55

Atheism isn't a faith Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #56

That's not really true as a legal matter. branford Nov 2014 #60

So then faiths without supreme beings wouldn't be regarded as faiths, either...? MADem Nov 2014 #61

Only some atheists believe Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #88

I dunno.... MADem Nov 2014 #93

It's rare that someone will try to prove the negative.... Oktober Nov 2014 #62

It's not rare for people to try to prove so-called "negatives". stone space Nov 2014 #80

And yet Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #87

So you pretty much agree with me then Niko Nov 2014 #65

You are proselytizing Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #86

Is it OK for Democrats to "proselytize"? trotsky Nov 2014 #107

And your point is? Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #108

Republicans have made it quite clear they aren't interested in our point of view. trotsky Nov 2014 #109

Yes, Republicans have made that clear Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #110

That's a very broad brush. trotsky Nov 2014 #111

You do love playing the martyr don't you? nt el_bryanto Nov 2014 #131

I see no need to make this personal, el_bryanto. trotsky Nov 2014 #132

I'm not making it personal el_bryanto Nov 2014 #138

Actually, yes, you did. trotsky Nov 2014 #141

Don't take the bait, trotsky. I am not proselytizing Niko Nov 2014 #147

Well there is one linking belief el_bryanto Nov 2014 #148

They're committing fraud Niko Nov 2014 #150

Nods - so if someone says to you "I think Moby is the best electronica act of the 1990s" el_bryanto Nov 2014 #151

You give normal atheists with a shred of humanity a bad name. Maedhros Nov 2014 #137

It's all about salvation, Prophet. cbayer Nov 2014 #127

Yes yes... We've all read it... Oktober Nov 2014 #59

+1 sarcasmo Nov 2014 #81

Well, you are certainly free to advocate changing the First Amendment branford Nov 2014 #20

Does the First Amendment cover outright fraud? Niko Nov 2014 #29

Faith is not legally fraud. branford Nov 2014 #32

And I'm saying it should be Niko Nov 2014 #35

First, I never said all religions are always positive. branford Nov 2014 #38

So you basically don't believe in the bill of rights or religious freedom? hrmjustin Nov 2014 #74

It's FRAUD Niko Nov 2014 #82

So to be clear do you think churches should have the right to exist? hrmjustin Nov 2014 #83

Post removed Post removed Nov 2014 #106

Yeah!! Let's outlaw churches, that's the ticket. cbayer Nov 2014 #126

Welcome to DU. Hey I paid $6.99 for an album on I-Tunes yesterday - el_bryanto Nov 2014 #130

Did you get what you paid for? Niko Nov 2014 #149

I do get what I want out of my faith - a closer connection to God. el_bryanto Nov 2014 #152

What would you replace them with? ismnotwasm Nov 2014 #134

I think we would need a new federal agency, branford Nov 2014 #140

A church, as a congregation that truly does God's work, should not be taxed. flvegan Nov 2014 #13

Define "doing God's work" Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #19

I've been repeatedly told on television that God = America. branford Nov 2014 #22

That's Republianity for you Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #25

Acting selflessly. flvegan Nov 2014 #24

Only if you feel the need to Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #26

I don't feel that I need to. flvegan Nov 2014 #28

I think everyone knew what you meant, i.e., engaging in true and selfless charity. branford Nov 2014 #27

The god of the Bible is a selfish, psychotic dickhead, though. Arugula Latte Nov 2014 #136

I'm a believing Jew, but George Carlin's bit about a mean but loving God was fantastic. branford Nov 2014 #139

God (pun intended) I miss George Carlin. Arugula Latte Nov 2014 #142

No arguement there Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #158

Ask him to send down a list and I'll see if I agree.... Oktober Nov 2014 #63

Ahhhh, there is no God. Nt Logical Nov 2014 #97

Tased? Hell yeah! Droning Predator Nov 2014 #31

Gave me a heart attack there Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #33

If they would keep their preaching in the pulpit and quit telling people how to vote, Jamastiene Nov 2014 #36

I'm sorry you experienced that Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #39

The First Amendment clearly would prohibit a crime of hate speech. branford Nov 2014 #45

There's a church where I live... Initech Nov 2014 #41

What were they going to do with it? Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #42

No they were turning it into a new facility for their church. Initech Nov 2014 #43

Then tax them, I agree Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #44

Why? branford Nov 2014 #46

I know that Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #49

Why should a big church be treated differently than one that is small. branford Nov 2014 #58

Yes. They are profit making businesses. Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2014 #47

Some are, sure Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #48

As are other businesses and corporations. Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2014 #54

Absolutely. BeanMusical Nov 2014 #50

Yes but exempt their charitable outreach activities so long as they are offered to ALL MADem Nov 2014 #51

They need to be treated as any other non-profit. Nothing else is constitutional. pnwmom Nov 2014 #57

They should be treated like other non-profits. NancyDL Nov 2014 #64

Does this include other houses of worship? hrmjustin Nov 2014 #66

Yes, I was using "church" in the general sense n/t Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #144

Yes (nt) bigwillq Nov 2014 #67

If you tax churches and other houses of worship then you open up the possibility they can hrmjustin Nov 2014 #69

They already are with a nudge, wink and outright proclamations in some cases. Lars39 Nov 2014 #70

True but if they do it from the pulpit it might have more force. hrmjustin Nov 2014 #71

And I have no doubt at all that is already happening. Lars39 Nov 2014 #72

Yes but there should be consequences to them for breaking the law. hrmjustin Nov 2014 #73

Yes. LWolf Nov 2014 #76

I was thinking of exempting charitable activities truebluegreen Nov 2014 #78

I think religious organizations should be taxed if they publicly state political opinions, --- northoftheborder Nov 2014 #79

Churches are already taxed for "non-church" activities. branford Nov 2014 #84

Of course they should SoCalDem Nov 2014 #85

Why should they be taxed? TexasMommaWithAHat Nov 2014 #89

Well, Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #92

Their pastor pays taxes on his salary TexasMommaWithAHat Nov 2014 #96

Nice Avatar! ScreamingMeemie Nov 2014 #98

Thanks dude! Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #99

Yes davidpdx Nov 2014 #100

I think the tax structure should encourage good works. Notafraidtoo Nov 2014 #101

It's a bit different here (UK) Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #103

This would help me break tithing to our church. ileus Nov 2014 #102

Yes, as regular income demwing Nov 2014 #104

"regular income"? Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #105

The black church a few blocks away from me Calista241 Nov 2014 #112

Yes ProfessorGAC Nov 2014 #113

I'm British Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #114

Was Not A Criticism Proph! ProfessorGAC Nov 2014 #116

Sorry, my misunderstanding Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #118

No Apology Needed ProfessorGAC Nov 2014 #121

I am with Frank Zappa hifiguy Nov 2014 #115

Don't know any Frank Zappa Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #117

Yes. If one is operating properly, it will pay no taxes anyway. Xithras Nov 2014 #119

The argument, as I understand it... Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #120

The lack of understanding on this subject and the emotionally based responses are embarrassing. cbayer Nov 2014 #122

yes. too many churches are little more than tax-exempt republicans headquarters... spanone Nov 2014 #128

If churches are truly non profit I would say no upaloopa Nov 2014 #129

Priests, ministers, rabbis, imams, and all other types of religious leaders, officials and employees branford Nov 2014 #133

Of course. (n/t) Iggo Nov 2014 #135

Yes and start with the Mormon church. savalez Nov 2014 #145

Yes, but there are churches that are hurting right now. louis-t Nov 2014 #153

The government should treat certain churches differently than others, including tax preferences? branford Nov 2014 #155

That's what I'm saying. Progressive tax, but why does it have to be all non-profits? louis-t Nov 2014 #156

Churches are tax-exempt under the same tax code provisions as other nonprofits and charities, branford Nov 2014 #157

Tax churches in the same way we tax people......or should tax people. PDJane Nov 2014 #154

No. n/t SylviaD Nov 2014 #159