General Discussion

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)

155. The presumption of innocence only applies in a CRIMINAL COURTROOM.

Mon Nov 24, 2014, 08:45 PM

Nov 2014

He has not been charged with any criminal offenses, but he has spent a lot of money paying off his accusers to not sue him in civil court. If Dr. Cosby thought the victims were lying, he would not worry about what a jury would think in a civil case, nor would he pay them off.

CIVIL CASES ARE DIFFERENT. THE CIVIL BURDEN OF PROOF IS THE PREPONDERANCE OF THE EVIDENCE. Anything over 50 percent.

Remember when O.J. was found not guilty of two murders, but the Goldmans and the Browns got civil judgments against him in the amount of $33.5 million? They could not get to his NFL pension. It's judgment proof. However, Ron Goldman's mother has auctioned off her judgment as she expects to see little of it. I could not find an article online stating how much the judgment was bought for, or whether it was bought at all.

Former legal secretary and court reporter here. Also a law school graduate.

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I give the fuck up. Bill Cosby Gets Standing Ovation at Florida Theater [View all] Warren Stupidity Nov 2014 OP

It's Florida....'nuff said?...n/t monmouth4 Nov 2014 #1

No shit BeyondGeography Nov 2014 #2

+1 CountAllVotes Nov 2014 #3

Depressing. ~nt RiverLover Nov 2014 #4

i want to vomit LawDeeDah Nov 2014 #5

Cosby has not been charged with any crime. Some chose not to believe the accusers are telling the Fred Sanders Nov 2014 #6

Did you forgot a sarcasm tag or was that actually serious? Warren Stupidity Nov 2014 #7

Cosby has not been charged with any crime. Fred Sanders Nov 2014 #8

This message was self-deleted by its author ejbr Nov 2014 #14

There was that whole intervening "ceased to exist" that prevents that, but you are correct. Fred Sanders Nov 2014 #16

correct, he committed suicide. ejbr Nov 2014 #72

What? The six million jews don't count? rock Nov 2014 #17

Having trouble letting go of his image as warm "Dr Huxtable" on the Cosby show? RiverLover Nov 2014 #18

Well, you are, for the fun of it. Fred Sanders Nov 2014 #19

Wow. ~nt RiverLover Nov 2014 #22

How about "these people" antiquie Nov 2014 #38

A predictor? cwydro Nov 2014 #40

Heh! I caught that too. cer7711 Nov 2014 #48

Damn auto correct. I'm a spelling nazi too. Please forgive!!! RiverLover Nov 2014 #50

I Suspected the Auto-corrector! cer7711 Nov 2014 #123

It looks really bad, but in every case one is innocent until proven guilty. The Wielding Truth Nov 2014 #144

Neither has Dick Cheney... Chef Eric Nov 2014 #55

...and there you have it... ejbr Nov 2014 #67

And he won't be, which means people must make up their own minds, pnwmom Nov 2014 #106

Okay, I understand disgust with Cosby, what the heck do you have against the poor 1monster Nov 2014 #58

He had to pay off one of his victims in 2006 BeyondGeography Nov 2014 #13

Actually the only thing by definition that makes you a criminal is being convicted of a crime. Fred Sanders Nov 2014 #21

Really? mac56 Nov 2014 #23

that is what the term "innocent until PROVEN VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #39

Post removed Post removed Nov 2014 #41

That applies to jurors. But it doesn't apply in the case of a man who has settled all the claims pnwmom Nov 2014 #108

NO...wrong...its a fundamental right VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #109

It is a fundamental LEGAL right. Everyone facing trial is to be presumed innocent. pnwmom Nov 2014 #112

the poster has had that pointed out to him in this thread multiple times Warren Stupidity Nov 2014 #117

that simple fact is beyond some folks' grasp cali Nov 2014 #122

Ordinary public option? You are equating ordinary, versus 'special', I guess, public opinion, with the Fred Sanders Nov 2014 #167

Can I ask you a serious question? jberryhill Nov 2014 #139

The person may have a mental illness, maybe they were so drunk as to not have the men's rea, Fred Sanders Nov 2014 #168

Not necessarily freedom fighter jh Nov 2014 #25

Circular argument...massively so. Fred Sanders Nov 2014 #26

You got the definition of "circular argument" wrong too. RiverLover Nov 2014 #28

Citing a definition is a massive circular argument? freedom fighter jh Nov 2014 #29

Sorry, Mr. Sanders. Thespian2 Nov 2014 #37

Please return immediately to law school for some remedial courses, sir. Fred Sanders Nov 2014 #166

Perhaps Thespian2 Nov 2014 #170

they DO vilify the accusers. the OVERWHELMING praise for b.c. IS a statement: BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2014 #31

Yep. Apparently innocent until proven guilty is only for *some* people. laundry_queen Nov 2014 #169

what part of "the women are lying" do you not see as vilifying the accusers? niyad Nov 2014 #65

the man is absolute fucking scum Skittles Nov 2014 #157

"they viewed him as an entertainer"... so what? these charges are very serious, and I remember secondwind Nov 2014 #9

Why would you be surprised? Who the hell would pay to see him anyway? Happyhippychick Nov 2014 #10

Innocent until proven guilty Renew Deal Nov 2014 #11

So you figure Jimmy Savile is innocent, as well? nt delrem Nov 2014 #12

Don't remember him Renew Deal Nov 2014 #15

British DJ, knighted for charity work, sexually abused hundreds of children and teenagers muriel_volestrangler Nov 2014 #32

but it is still our way... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #42

However, Cosby did settle a law suit about it muriel_volestrangler Nov 2014 #60

and that doesn't hold up in a court of law either... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #61

guess what, 'nilla? we don't live in a courtroom. people are perfectly free to come to their own cali Nov 2014 #63

Guess what Cal....that is the proverbial "court of public opinion" but in REAL life.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #66

No, not in reality muriel_volestrangler Nov 2014 #70

Yes in reality....its a fundamental right VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #71

Nothing there about how American people think muriel_volestrangler Nov 2014 #74

But there is about how the Court of Human Rights thinks... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #80

And the context of that is penal offences muriel_volestrangler Nov 2014 #82

NO he is being called guilty....when there will be no trial... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #83

Then why didn't you reply to someone calling him guilty, rather than someone muriel_volestrangler Nov 2014 #90

Its the same....Jeffery Dahmer had HEADS in the fridge...he STILL got a fair trail with the VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #91

He had the chance to defend himself against the civil suit muriel_volestrangler Nov 2014 #94

that doesn't equal guilt....still not the same.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #95

Then why didn't you reply to someone calling him guilty, rather than someone muriel_volestrangler Nov 2014 #96

this has nothing to do with Jimmy Savile or Jeffery Dahmer..... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #97

YOU brought up Jeffery Dahmer. delrem brought up Jimmy Savile. muriel_volestrangler Nov 2014 #98

YES because Jeffery Dahmer had actual heads in his refridgerator..... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #102

So what? jberryhill Nov 2014 #140

like Zimmerman and Darren Wilson, both not guilty in your eyes, right? nt kelly1mm Nov 2014 #156

That right protects the individual from the state, not from public opinion. Warren Stupidity Nov 2014 #78

Right and he will suffer from that....but there will not be a trial....and no resolution to this... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #81

then there is no problem at all from a human rights perspective. Warren Stupidity Nov 2014 #84

I am not defending him....I am saying....he will never be found guilty in a court of law VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #85

so your attacker wasn't a criminal? ack. cali Nov 2014 #87

he was not found guilty.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #89

bzzzt. fail, 'nils. that's true in the legal arena- which is no more real life than cali Nov 2014 #86

bzzzt Fail Ca VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #88

in a court of law. the court of public opinion is perfectly free to judge. cali Nov 2014 #92

The court of public opinion is a Kangaroo court...he is not going to get to present a defense... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #93

funny, I haven't seen you screeching about this in the threads about Wilson. cali Nov 2014 #99

huh? Who is Wilson? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #100

uh, the numerous threads about the cop who killed Michael Brown cali Nov 2014 #104

I said what? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #105

In "real life" he has suffered none of the consequences skepticscott Nov 2014 #114

Well he has lost a couple jobs so far.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #115

Cosby has not been denied the right to a fair trial skepticscott Nov 2014 #118

Yes he has...but the statute of limitations has happened... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #126

Yes, that happens when you coerce victims not to brings charges skepticscott Nov 2014 #141

oh for fuck's sake. this isn't rocket science, 'nilla. Due process is a legal precept cali Nov 2014 #119

Oh for fucks sake yourself..... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #128

lol. "COURT of LAW... it's the law of the land" cali Nov 2014 #131

Are we not Americans? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #133

OK. One more time- again: cali Nov 2014 #136

One more time for you...WE are a NATiON of LAWS! VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #138

Neither a Florida theater nor DU are a court of law muriel_volestrangler Nov 2014 #68

Do you have a problem with someone stating facts? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #69

Do *you* have a problem with someone stating facts? muriel_volestrangler Nov 2014 #75

the presumption of innocence IS a fundamental Right.....AND the The American way.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #76

ONLY IN A COURTROOM. PERIOD> FUCKING EXCLAMATION MARK cali Nov 2014 #121

I THOUGHT we were the SCIENCE and EVIDENCE people..... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #124

well that was even more nonsensical than the rest of your ridiculous posts in this thread cali Nov 2014 #127

Except for the fact that i provided FACTS....and you are denying them like Climate Change deniers... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #130

one more time, just for you- and in very simple language for you: cali Nov 2014 #134

One more time for YOU... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #135

"We are a nation of LAWS.....that is what we are!!! " ohheckyeah Nov 2014 #142

we aren't? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #143

Sweet Jesus - are ohheckyeah Nov 2014 #146

Sweet Jesus are YOU? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #148

The only concrete fact that you presented delrem Nov 2014 #159

As I said...and it is not JUST the American way... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #77

bwahahaha. too funny, nils. cali Nov 2014 #120

I JUST gave you facts...as I OFTEN do.....you can deny "science" all you want!!!! VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #125

bwahahahah. you just keep getting funnier and funnier. cali Nov 2014 #129

No you just keep denying the obvious.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #132

do you realize, 'nilla, that no one in this thread agrees with your cali Nov 2014 #137

The presumption of innocence only applies in a CRIMINAL COURTROOM. Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2014 #155

Recall who you are debating with. delrem Nov 2014 #160

Oh really? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #161

Factually and legally are two different things. Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2014 #162

hahahahaha right... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #163

Girlfriend, where did YOU earn YOUR law degree??????? Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2014 #164

I think it's a troll. delrem Nov 2014 #165

you're probably right. Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2014 #172

Using Vanilla logic... Generic Other Nov 2014 #171

I do, Cali dear, and once again you are wrong and insult in order to feel better about it. Fred Sanders Nov 2014 #176

do you really think that would have made a difference to the assholes in FL if he had been convicted bowens43 Nov 2014 #152

Yes. Renew Deal Nov 2014 #154

looking over the comments to this post... smiley Nov 2014 #20

"What are the odds that 13 different women from different backgrounds who have very similar and" baldguy Nov 2014 #24

Stop making sense. The deniers on here are amazing. HERVEPA Nov 2014 #27

You are mischaracterizing. They are not deniers, they are reserving judgment until more is known. elias7 Nov 2014 #47

DUers like to be judge, jury, and executioner IronLionZion Nov 2014 #53

We are none of the above. Consequently when a sick fuck like Cosby gets exposed Warren Stupidity Nov 2014 #62

Seriously Dorian Gray Nov 2014 #158

He setttled earlier suits. This has been going on for years. All the women with very stories. HERVEPA Nov 2014 #57

I'm not denying anything smiley Nov 2014 #149

Good post. nt cwydro Nov 2014 #44

"Just doesn't seem like the liberal thing to do." < I have heard this somewhere before... n/t jtuck004 Nov 2014 #45

Here in the stupid, backwards red state of Arizona ChazII Nov 2014 #30

So those accusations are just nonsense, CaptainTruth Nov 2014 #33

Some People Don't Like Change jalan48 Nov 2014 #34

I think you make a good point daleo Nov 2014 #43

GREAT post. Four lines of copy sum it all up. calimary Nov 2014 #59

You mean the fucking Rick Scott state? What do you expect? They LOVE criminal assholes. nt valerief Nov 2014 #35

Sickening... SidDithers Nov 2014 #36

Jameis Winston gets standing ovations every week albino65 Nov 2014 #46

So...was he actually guilty of sexually assaulting all of those women.... Stellar Nov 2014 #49

All of the right wing evangelical christians I know are convinced that Cosby is 100% Don Draper Nov 2014 #51

But I thought they hated blacks yeoman6987 Nov 2014 #101

Well, there is ohheckyeah Nov 2014 #147

Just like Steelers QB Ben Rapistberger, gets adoration and praise every Sunday. Dont call me Shirley Nov 2014 #52

This is a very ugly conflation skepticscott Nov 2014 #54

I think the psychological phenomenon you delineate here (quite nicely, I might add) is KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #64

The only ovation I would give him is a whack to the head. appleannie1 Nov 2014 #56

O.J. Simpson. Some cheered him too. Lex Nov 2014 #73

I give the fuck up. Bill Cosby gets a big fat pass on DU too. Warren Stupidity Nov 2014 #79

I guess there are enough people here who truedelphi Nov 2014 #145

It's weird, isn't it? Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #173

I admit to having had mixed feelings about Allen, I really wanted to believe he wasnt Warren Stupidity Nov 2014 #174

I have to say, if 16 people had made the accusation, I'd find it pretty damn impossible to question. Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #175

you know what is sad- it would probably take one man to spill the beans and suddenly we would see bettyellen Nov 2014 #103

It wasn't until male comedian Hannibal Burress called Cosby a rapist that Sheldon Cooper Nov 2014 #110

Yep- a man takes it seriously, and all of a sudden- maybe they are not all "nuts and sluts". bettyellen Nov 2014 #111

I wonder if this same crowd would also cheer Ray Rice, Aaron Hernandez, and Jerry Sandusky? Initech Nov 2014 #107

They were people who were already big enough fans to buy a ticket in the first place Adenoid_Hynkel Nov 2014 #113

The people that would show up are probably fans JonLP24 Nov 2014 #116

People held up signs that read "Go OJ Go!" Dreamer Tatum Nov 2014 #150

florida...... doesnt surprise me at all bowens43 Nov 2014 #151

Glad we live in a country where folks are free to do that. bigwillq Nov 2014 #153

Your Last Line explains it Derek V Nov 2014 #177