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Recursion

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1. It can't be forensically proven or disproven, though I don't believe the claim

Reply to PersonNumber503602 (Original post)

Wed Nov 26, 2014, 02:34 AM

Nov 2014

The jam Wilson's weapon had is consistent with someone holding the side of the gun, but also with the gun being up against someone's arm, and also it sometimes "just happens". Brown's fingerprints on the gun would be pretty clear proof he did, but their lack isn't disproof. (And if they had been found on the gun, we definitely would have heard about it.) The gunshot to Brown's hand is consistent with someone reaching "towards" (to keep it neutral) a gun, or someone shielding himself with his arms.

What I'm really interested in (and haven't seen yet in any of the autopsy evidence) is powder residue on Brown's clothing and hands.

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Did Mike Brown grab the gun or not? [View all] PersonNumber503602 Nov 2014 OP

It can't be forensically proven or disproven, though I don't believe the claim Recursion Nov 2014 #1

Oh, I guess that would explain the lack of any solid answer about it. PersonNumber503602 Nov 2014 #2

Two shots were fired in the car, and Brown bled onto the outside of the car Recursion Nov 2014 #3

Damn shame there wasn't any body cameras, or at least a dash board cam. PersonNumber503602 Nov 2014 #6

His testimony has a long, tortured explanation of why he didn't go for his mace or baton Recursion Nov 2014 #7

At least he didn't claim to have grabbed (and used) the gun by accident, like J. Meserle did. nomorenomore08 Nov 2014 #10

Awww hell, I gotta google that azmom Nov 2014 #40

Actually, I read that he chose not to carry a taser Bettie Nov 2014 #41

IIRC he also claimed to have never fired his gun on duty before. nomorenomore08 Nov 2014 #46

Ahh, that most lethal and aggressive action first mentality that far too many police officers have PersonNumber503602 Nov 2014 #12

There's a "use of force continuum" they teach us in the military Recursion Nov 2014 #15

In the whole Furgeson incident TexasProgresive Nov 2014 #24

No argument there Recursion Nov 2014 #25

The OODA loop Hangingon Nov 2014 #38

There was stuff from the gun on his hands XemaSab Nov 2014 #4

That does not definitely demonstrate anything, according to the very pathologist being quoted alcibiades_mystery Nov 2014 #14

It was in the autopsy report, gun shot in Brown's hand, soft tissue recovered from the vehicle snooper2 Nov 2014 #36

Which only shows that he was shot in the hand, not that he was grabbing for a gun alcibiades_mystery Nov 2014 #44

probably not Kalidurga Nov 2014 #5

I hate saying it like this, but on the "pro Brown" side, is there any comment the forensics PersonNumber503602 Nov 2014 #9

Everyone (myself included) comes at these cases with pre-conceived notions. nomorenomore08 Nov 2014 #11

Very true, we all have our pre-conceived notions PersonNumber503602 Nov 2014 #17

there is nothing conclusive Kalidurga Nov 2014 #13

It was my understanding that the blood Alittleliberal Nov 2014 #63

A number of scenarios can explain the forensics alcibiades_mystery Nov 2014 #16

As nomorenomore08 said below, grabbing a cops gun does sound suicidal. PersonNumber503602 Nov 2014 #19

Every sentence out of Wilson's mouth is carefully crafted by attorney to match the statute alcibiades_mystery Nov 2014 #29

"It's ridiculous. His entire testimony is ridiculous. And everybody knows it." nomorenomore08 Nov 2014 #48

I doubt it. Unless he was suicidal, and I've seen no indication that he was. nomorenomore08 Nov 2014 #8

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2014 #64

does it matter? TorchTheWitch Nov 2014 #18

The truth and facts always matter, no? PersonNumber503602 Nov 2014 #20

you're looking for truth and facts HERE? TorchTheWitch Nov 2014 #22

"nobody here other than me has every had the slightest interest in truth and facts Lex Nov 2014 #26

I'm not the one doing the bloviating TorchTheWitch Nov 2014 #27

Yes, your posts are the very definition of bloviating. Lex Nov 2014 #28

Ya know, I hate posts like this.... Adrahil Nov 2014 #31

Ok, I was responding to a poster who said this about DUers: Lex Nov 2014 #33

I'm glad I'm not the only one who found that an incredibly arrogant post. n/t nomorenomore08 Nov 2014 #49

Ok, thanks for the clarification. Happy Thanksgiving! n/t Adrahil Nov 2014 #51

Well said! Spazito Nov 2014 #39

Thank You RobinA Nov 2014 #42

And so does logic... TampaAnimusVortex Nov 2014 #58

From my perspective it doesn't matter at all. hunter Nov 2014 #21

We will never know because the gun wasn't tested for prints justiceischeap Nov 2014 #23

I think Wilson pointed a gun in Brown's face... BklnDem75 Nov 2014 #30

That's my reading of it, too alcibiades_mystery Nov 2014 #45

I also think it was Brown trying to deflect the gun not grab it. Kablooie Nov 2014 #67

That is the most likely and believable scenario. Kalidurga Nov 2014 #71

It really does not matter SoCalDem Nov 2014 #32

Even if he did that would have been long before he had his hands up and was exicuted. nt Quixote1818 Nov 2014 #34

we'll never know for sure because the gun wasn't fingerprinted librechik Nov 2014 #35

Since he wasn't arrested, all we have is the prosecuter side of the murder! B Calm Nov 2014 #37

My opinion, which is just as valid as what Wilson purports boston bean Nov 2014 #43

Exactly, see Carolina Nov 2014 #53

Also Carolina, my opinion is that boston bean Nov 2014 #54

Touche Carolina Nov 2014 #56

I am so sick to my stomach with all of this. boston bean Nov 2014 #59

Can't be proven now, Wilson put his own gun into an evidence bag and washed his hands Rex Nov 2014 #47

How can anyone here give the answer to you? CBGLuthier Nov 2014 #50

Here's what Carolina Nov 2014 #52

Well let's see - he's dead and Darren TBF Nov 2014 #55

It would seem to be a lie. Threedifferentones Nov 2014 #57

Here's the question I keep asking. hollowdweller Nov 2014 #60

It is not relevant. The decision to kill was made when the cop got out of his car. What happened jwirr Nov 2014 #61

Mike Brown was nowhere near a gun when he was murdered by Darren Wilson. Iggo Nov 2014 #62

I don't believe the cops. Saint Louis cops are filthy! B Calm Nov 2014 #65

My guess, based on what both the cop and Brown's friend said is... Kablooie Nov 2014 #66

Whether he did or not is totally irrelevent to the case Bjorn Against Nov 2014 #68

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2014 #69

Can we get a pizza delivered to the winner of this thread? BootinUp Nov 2014 #70