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Recursion

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15. There's a "use of force continuum" they teach us in the military

Wed Nov 26, 2014, 03:16 AM

Nov 2014

Presence -> compliance -> submission -> non-lethal -> lethal

(That's for patrolling in urban situations like Iraq; not so much for Omaha Beach.) You are supposed to keep a mental checklist of where you are on that continuum present in your mind at all times. ("compliance" means giving a verbal order; "submission" means a submission hold, lock, or choke, not you submitting.) And in non-combat situations, you are supposed to remember that your job is to keep the continuum as far to the left as you possibly can.

There's also a judgment model we are supposed to use:

Observe -> Orient -> Decide -> Act

It's supposed to govern the judgment process in tactical situations, and you're supposed to be well-enough trained that it happens instinctively in a crisis situation.

Wilson observed, then oriented, then acted. He completely skipped over "decide", by his own admission that he was asking himself "is it legal to shoot"?

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Did Mike Brown grab the gun or not? [View all] PersonNumber503602 Nov 2014 OP

It can't be forensically proven or disproven, though I don't believe the claim Recursion Nov 2014 #1

Oh, I guess that would explain the lack of any solid answer about it. PersonNumber503602 Nov 2014 #2

Two shots were fired in the car, and Brown bled onto the outside of the car Recursion Nov 2014 #3

Damn shame there wasn't any body cameras, or at least a dash board cam. PersonNumber503602 Nov 2014 #6

His testimony has a long, tortured explanation of why he didn't go for his mace or baton Recursion Nov 2014 #7

At least he didn't claim to have grabbed (and used) the gun by accident, like J. Meserle did. nomorenomore08 Nov 2014 #10

Awww hell, I gotta google that azmom Nov 2014 #40

Actually, I read that he chose not to carry a taser Bettie Nov 2014 #41

IIRC he also claimed to have never fired his gun on duty before. nomorenomore08 Nov 2014 #46

Ahh, that most lethal and aggressive action first mentality that far too many police officers have PersonNumber503602 Nov 2014 #12

There's a "use of force continuum" they teach us in the military Recursion Nov 2014 #15

In the whole Furgeson incident TexasProgresive Nov 2014 #24

No argument there Recursion Nov 2014 #25

The OODA loop Hangingon Nov 2014 #38

There was stuff from the gun on his hands XemaSab Nov 2014 #4

That does not definitely demonstrate anything, according to the very pathologist being quoted alcibiades_mystery Nov 2014 #14

It was in the autopsy report, gun shot in Brown's hand, soft tissue recovered from the vehicle snooper2 Nov 2014 #36

Which only shows that he was shot in the hand, not that he was grabbing for a gun alcibiades_mystery Nov 2014 #44

probably not Kalidurga Nov 2014 #5

I hate saying it like this, but on the "pro Brown" side, is there any comment the forensics PersonNumber503602 Nov 2014 #9

Everyone (myself included) comes at these cases with pre-conceived notions. nomorenomore08 Nov 2014 #11

Very true, we all have our pre-conceived notions PersonNumber503602 Nov 2014 #17

there is nothing conclusive Kalidurga Nov 2014 #13

It was my understanding that the blood Alittleliberal Nov 2014 #63

A number of scenarios can explain the forensics alcibiades_mystery Nov 2014 #16

As nomorenomore08 said below, grabbing a cops gun does sound suicidal. PersonNumber503602 Nov 2014 #19

Every sentence out of Wilson's mouth is carefully crafted by attorney to match the statute alcibiades_mystery Nov 2014 #29

"It's ridiculous. His entire testimony is ridiculous. And everybody knows it." nomorenomore08 Nov 2014 #48

I doubt it. Unless he was suicidal, and I've seen no indication that he was. nomorenomore08 Nov 2014 #8

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2014 #64

does it matter? TorchTheWitch Nov 2014 #18

The truth and facts always matter, no? PersonNumber503602 Nov 2014 #20

you're looking for truth and facts HERE? TorchTheWitch Nov 2014 #22

"nobody here other than me has every had the slightest interest in truth and facts Lex Nov 2014 #26

I'm not the one doing the bloviating TorchTheWitch Nov 2014 #27

Yes, your posts are the very definition of bloviating. Lex Nov 2014 #28

Ya know, I hate posts like this.... Adrahil Nov 2014 #31

Ok, I was responding to a poster who said this about DUers: Lex Nov 2014 #33

I'm glad I'm not the only one who found that an incredibly arrogant post. n/t nomorenomore08 Nov 2014 #49

Ok, thanks for the clarification. Happy Thanksgiving! n/t Adrahil Nov 2014 #51

Well said! Spazito Nov 2014 #39

Thank You RobinA Nov 2014 #42

And so does logic... TampaAnimusVortex Nov 2014 #58

From my perspective it doesn't matter at all. hunter Nov 2014 #21

We will never know because the gun wasn't tested for prints justiceischeap Nov 2014 #23

I think Wilson pointed a gun in Brown's face... BklnDem75 Nov 2014 #30

That's my reading of it, too alcibiades_mystery Nov 2014 #45

I also think it was Brown trying to deflect the gun not grab it. Kablooie Nov 2014 #67

That is the most likely and believable scenario. Kalidurga Nov 2014 #71

It really does not matter SoCalDem Nov 2014 #32

Even if he did that would have been long before he had his hands up and was exicuted. nt Quixote1818 Nov 2014 #34

we'll never know for sure because the gun wasn't fingerprinted librechik Nov 2014 #35

Since he wasn't arrested, all we have is the prosecuter side of the murder! B Calm Nov 2014 #37

My opinion, which is just as valid as what Wilson purports boston bean Nov 2014 #43

Exactly, see Carolina Nov 2014 #53

Also Carolina, my opinion is that boston bean Nov 2014 #54

Touche Carolina Nov 2014 #56

I am so sick to my stomach with all of this. boston bean Nov 2014 #59

Can't be proven now, Wilson put his own gun into an evidence bag and washed his hands Rex Nov 2014 #47

How can anyone here give the answer to you? CBGLuthier Nov 2014 #50

Here's what Carolina Nov 2014 #52

Well let's see - he's dead and Darren TBF Nov 2014 #55

It would seem to be a lie. Threedifferentones Nov 2014 #57

Here's the question I keep asking. hollowdweller Nov 2014 #60

It is not relevant. The decision to kill was made when the cop got out of his car. What happened jwirr Nov 2014 #61

Mike Brown was nowhere near a gun when he was murdered by Darren Wilson. Iggo Nov 2014 #62

I don't believe the cops. Saint Louis cops are filthy! B Calm Nov 2014 #65

My guess, based on what both the cop and Brown's friend said is... Kablooie Nov 2014 #66

Whether he did or not is totally irrelevent to the case Bjorn Against Nov 2014 #68

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2014 #69

Can we get a pizza delivered to the winner of this thread? BootinUp Nov 2014 #70