Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

JonLP24

(29,960 posts)
72. More from him
Thu Nov 27, 2014, 09:02 PM
Nov 2014

The Missouri statute says that a police officer can use deadly force in trying to arrest a person they suspect has committed any felony. But in the Garner case, the Supreme Court ruled that using deadly force was unreasonable when it was used in trying to stop a fleeing felon who hadn’t committed a violent felony or who wasn’t dangerous (the facts of Garner involved police shooting at a burglar trying to climb over a fence).“Where the suspect poses no immediate threat to the officer and no threat to others,” the court wrote, “the harm resulting from failing to apprehend him does not justify the use of deadly force to do so.”

Missouri’s statute as written allows police officers to use deadly force to arrest someone who is guilty, say, only of forging a check. As a matter of a state criminal prosecution of a police officer, this inconsistency doesn’t matter. There is no requirement that state law fit with the standards for a federal civil rights suit against a police officer, which is what Garner was. If the attorneys supervising the grand jury thought that Garner somehow “overrides” the state statute, they were wrong.

But that doesn’t mean that the lawyers shouldn’t have given the grand jury their revised statement of the law — whatever exactly it was (I haven’t found it in the files given to us, and we may never see it). The Garner standard is the more sensible standard. In fact, the Missouri pattern jury instructions (the instructions judges have to read if a law enforcement officer’s use of force is at issue at trial) already adopt the Garner standard. till, Missouri law stands unchanged.

Of course, it may be that Wilson’s use of deadly force was justified even under the higher, Garner standard. Garner also says that deadly force may be used “if the suspect threatens the officer with a weapon or there is probable cause to believe that he has committed a crime involving the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical harm.” What we will be debating (and what we should be debating) is whether when Wilson shot Brown, he was shooting at a violent felon or (to quote another passage from Garner) shooting at an “unarmed, nondangerous suspect.”

http://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/commentary-wilson-case-illustrates-why-we-should-change-missouri-s-use-force-law

Credentials


Professor Chad Flanders joined the SLU LAW faculty in 2009. He teaches and writes in the areas of criminal law, constitutional law, and the philosophy of law.

Prof. Flanders received his doctorate in philosophy from the University of Chicago in 2004 and his law degree from Yale Law School in 2007. After law school, Prof. Flanders served as a law clerk to the Hon. Warren Matthews on the Alaska Supreme Court and the Hon. Michael McConnell on the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals.

Since arriving at SLU, Prof. Flanders has published more than 20 articles or essays in journals such as the Florida Law Review, the California Law Review, the Missouri Law Review and the Alaska Law Review, and his work on Bush v. Gore has been cited by state and federal courts. He has also written numerous opinion pieces for national and local newspapers, including the Chicago Tribune, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, and Politico.

In the 2012-2013 academic year Prof. Flanders was a Fulbright Lecturer at Nanjing University, China. During 2013-2014 Flanders was a visiting professor at DePaul University School of Law.
http://www.slu.edu/colleges/law/slulaw/faculty/cflande2

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Yes shenmue Nov 2014 #1
i agree drray23 Nov 2014 #2
There is one marym625 Nov 2014 #44
Sorry not specifically on this marym625 Nov 2014 #55
It won't happen, but I agree it was gross misconduct, and they should be disbarred still_one Nov 2014 #3
I would love to see Lawrence on MTP as host. LawDeeDah Nov 2014 #4
+1 SunSeeker Nov 2014 #14
He'd treat the position with respect, a true breakthrough. n/t Judi Lynn Nov 2014 #22
Hell, yes. It would be watchable then. nt valerief Nov 2014 #34
Video doesn't work for me. What were his allegations? Wella Nov 2014 #5
The prosecutors supplied the grand jury with a statute that had been ruled unconstitutional 20score Nov 2014 #7
Thank you, 20score.. Happy Thanksgiving to you! Cha Nov 2014 #15
Thank you, Cha! Happy Thanksgiving! 20score Nov 2014 #18
Recommend! KoKo Nov 2014 #60
Criminal misconduct. Kingofalldems Nov 2014 #6
An Asst. D.A. gave grand jury copies of unconstitutional statute OKing shooting fleeing suspects. Shrike47 Nov 2014 #8
Wow.. of the many many mistakes the prosecutor made, that is a huge one. dixiegrrrrl Nov 2014 #13
"Mistakes" toddwv Nov 2014 #46
It's a mistake if he thought he could get away with it. But it was intentional to favor Wilson. WinkyDink Nov 2014 #50
So What Are People Gonna Do About It billhicks76 Nov 2014 #85
THAT is the key question. EVERYONE should be asking that. calimary Nov 2014 #114
Can you weigh in marym625 Nov 2014 #77
Disbar them. End of story. Mike Niendorff Nov 2014 #9
Truly amazing. Absolutely dishonest. Is there no legal recourse here? (nt) enough Nov 2014 #10
hope something is done samsingh Nov 2014 #11
Absolutely 100% on purpose BrotherIvan Nov 2014 #12
Bingo! valerief Nov 2014 #35
K & R SunSeeker Nov 2014 #16
W.O.W. Locrian Nov 2014 #17
Yet we have racist and gun humping posters breathlessly defending them. morningfog Nov 2014 #19
Move along, move along, nothing to see here.... woolldog Nov 2014 #49
Thank you. n/t marym625 Nov 2014 #57
Thank you so much for posting this Number23 Nov 2014 #20
NULLIFY THIS GRAND JURY FOR IMPROPER PROCEDURE!!! NOW!!! NT SidneyR Nov 2014 #21
They don't need to, there is no double jeopardy attached to a grand jury BrotherIvan Nov 2014 #53
Yes lovemydog Nov 2014 #102
He leaves out what they mentioned on November 21, 2014 JonLP24 Nov 2014 #23
There is a problem: it would confuse a reasonable juror. strategery blunder Nov 2014 #29
seems like there was a dog whistle in there for those who prefer "states rights" over federal law bettyellen Nov 2014 #32
It reminds me of the Zimmerman trial... ReRe Nov 2014 #36
I resign myself from the discussion as it appears to be over my level of expertise JonLP24 Nov 2014 #37
No. marym625 Nov 2014 #61
You may be correct JonLP24 Nov 2014 #65
There is no question I am right marym625 Nov 2014 #67
Flanders is the Saint Louis law professor JonLP24 Nov 2014 #69
WOW! marym625 Nov 2014 #71
More from him JonLP24 Nov 2014 #72
This is amazing marym625 Nov 2014 #75
He makes a distinction for civil cases JonLP24 Nov 2014 #86
But it's about what the police can do marym625 Nov 2014 #87
Lawrence v Texas was a criminal case JonLP24 Nov 2014 #88
Garner was a civil case marym625 Nov 2014 #89
Here's a decent abstract on it marym625 Nov 2014 #91
I actually read the entire decision before JonLP24 Nov 2014 #93
Lisa is an attorney marym625 Nov 2014 #95
I understand what you're saying JonLP24 Nov 2014 #96
I understand what you are saying marym625 Nov 2014 #98
It's more complicated than you're recognizing. Jim Lane Nov 2014 #104
First, thank you marym625 Nov 2014 #108
I just went back and read marym625 Nov 2014 #111
Because they don't. marym625 Nov 2014 #52
Agree. The grand jury's questions to Wilson may have been thwarted boston bean Nov 2014 #63
The whole dawn thing stinks marym625 Nov 2014 #64
The Asst P.A. used DELIBERATELY BAD GRAMMAR to CONFUSE the GJ. WinkyDink Nov 2014 #56
Hey while the statute heaven05 Nov 2014 #24
Wouldn't this be obstruction of justice? icymist Nov 2014 #25
+ underpants Nov 2014 #26
Yup! Suich Nov 2014 #27
Happy Thanksgiving to you too, my friend! 20score Nov 2014 #43
Here it is on youtube, 20score.. if you want to put it in your OP.. Cha Nov 2014 #28
Thank you! I couldn't find it earlier. 20score Nov 2014 #42
K&R! This post should have hundreds of recommendations! Enthusiast Nov 2014 #30
Thank you for this. H2O Man Nov 2014 #31
Kick nt List left Nov 2014 #33
Surely DOJ knows about this... ReRe Nov 2014 #38
I dont think you can punish a prosecutor for misconduct because he got a no true bill davidn3600 Nov 2014 #39
Nevertheless, prosecutors are still subject to the Rules of Professional Conduct and can 20score Nov 2014 #41
I may be wrong, but from what I've read the following is true passiveporcupine Nov 2014 #40
no, that's incorrect marym625 Nov 2014 #45
There is no proof that Brown attacked Wilson Bjorn Against Nov 2014 #51
+++++ BrotherIvan Nov 2014 #54
Just what came to my mind when I saw pictures marym625 Nov 2014 #66
Here's what came to my mind ... eppur_se_muova Nov 2014 #74
yep. disgusting. marym625 Nov 2014 #76
LOL azmom Nov 2014 #106
1. Not Missouri law. 2. "...once Brown attacked Wilson" was not proven in a court of law. WinkyDink Nov 2014 #59
Thank you for posting marym625 Nov 2014 #47
Deliberate obfuscation The Wizard Nov 2014 #48
This dame, a lawyer trained in the exquisitely precise use of words, spoke literal nonsense. WinkyDink Nov 2014 #62
Kick for visibility! BrotherIvan Nov 2014 #58
Kick shanti Nov 2014 #68
Thanks for posting! loyalsister Nov 2014 #70
Thank you for posting. Shared with my social network and Socialist and KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #73
I believe the use of that archaic law... nikto Nov 2014 #78
K&R JEB Nov 2014 #79
I just marked a whole bunch of Lawrence's shows from youtube for my tv. LawDeeDah Nov 2014 #80
K & R +++ Thespian2 Nov 2014 #81
I saw the show, sadoldgirl Nov 2014 #82
Hmmmmf. Hope that mother fucking murderer was worth the money you spent for law school and any lonestarnot Nov 2014 #83
Time for a new grand jury! Takket Nov 2014 #84
K&R. I've seen lots of misconduct identified in this case but missed this one. Outrageous! Overseas Nov 2014 #90
"With Prosecutors Like this, Darren Wilson Never Really Needed a Defense Lawyer."! My blood Cha Nov 2014 #92
This, on top of everything else Jack Rabbit Nov 2014 #94
As usual, Lawrence spells it out Iwillnevergiveup Nov 2014 #97
Why do cops shoot to kill? Lefergus70 Nov 2014 #99
Stinks blkmusclmachine Nov 2014 #100
Makes you wonder - if they make "mistakes" like this in high-profile, highly scrutanized cases baldguy Nov 2014 #101
Are you fucking kidding me? blackspade Nov 2014 #103
O'Donnell did a great job here Gothmog Nov 2014 #105
Posted to for later watching n/t 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #107
Incompetence Of The Highest Order - Impeach The Prosecutors - Republican Heads Explode cantbeserious Nov 2014 #109
I was watching Lawrence's show when he articulated what had happened and... Spazito Nov 2014 #110
Its disgusting that the Proscutor's office is going to get away with this. SweetieD Nov 2014 #112
Many things have been broght to light on many different issues INdemo Nov 2014 #113
Why is this not being investigated uponit7771 Dec 2014 #115
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Lawrence O'Donnell uncove...»Reply #72