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In reply to the discussion: What are the authorities hiding in Missouri? Why NOT cross examine Wilson on the stand? [View all]IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)64. I have been following closely, so let me try to clarify.
>"Why not cross examine Wilson on the stand?" - This was a Grand Jury, there is no cross examination. This is by design.
Me: I should have used "aggressively directly examine" instead of "cross examine".
A prominent legal expert eviscerates the Darren Wilson prosecution, in 8 tweets http://www.vox.com/xpress/2014/11/25/7285265/darren-wilson-grand-jury
(DU Source: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025874623)
Still Me: Wilson should have had some questions regarding his credibility asked, based on the whole "weren't you let go from the Jennings Police Department when it was shut down due to corruption?" angle. This would have been a good opportunity for that to get addressed. It was not. WHY?
Officer Darren Wilson Lives in Crestwood, Black Population 1.3%
http://colorlines.com/archives/2014/08/officer_darren_wilson_lives_in_crestwood_black_population_13.html
(From Article: Wilson previously worked in nearby Jennings, where the black population is 86.1 percent.)
Jennings police department dissolves
http://www.kmov.com/news/local/Jennings-police-department-dissolves-117864314.html
(Article Dated: March 12, 2011 The council said corruption inside the department led to this.)
>"Why the absolute refusal to follow appropriate protocols? Why hiding or not following Sunshine State Law requirements?" - This was a Grand Jury, they are private by design therefore they are exactly the proper procedure. Been that way for centuries.
Me: This was NOT in regard to the Grand Jury. This was in regard to the Ferguson Police Department. You can read more about the issues here:
Unorthodox forensic practices shown in Ferguson documents http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2014/11/26/unorthodox-forensic-practices-shown-ferguson-documents/JEgxCWRIx9y9xYF9QjToeJ/story.html
(DU Source: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025875750)
Still Me: Or if you want to see basic math problems, you can read all about "boxes" versus "packages" and why the dollar value of the convenience store incident seems to be incorrect.
The Ferguson robbery incident report has some problems.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025398525
Still Me: Missouri "Sunshine Law" issues have been mentioned multiple times. You can read more here:
Fergusons massive cover-up: How police departments are protecting Michael Browns killer http://www.salon.com/2014/09/14/fergusons_massive_cover_up_how_police_departments_are_protecting_michael_browns_killer/ (DU has been talking about this for months.)
>"Why didn't the Prosecutor, with obvious conflict of interest due to his own personal family life, not recuse himself?" - I agree they should have.
Me: Okay.
The question is Why Didn't He? The answer looks to be "because then he couldn't have controlled the outcome" and that makes it look like the dead kid was in trouble, instead of the guy who shot him. The assumption is that the Prosecutor's close ties to the Police Department and dependence on them to do his job meant that he went beyond the benefit of the doubt in this case because he has never run a Grand Jury like that before EVER. I think the corruption/KKK stuff probably ties in - Wilson probably knows where some of the bodies are buried. So does the Prosecutor. If not, why the farce?
>"Why didn't the Governor appoint a Special Prosecutor? What was he afraid might happen?" - From my understanding of the Missouri law it is outside of the Governor's power to do that.
Me: Yes, I have since learned that the Prosecutor has to REQUEST a "Special Prosecutor"; I also know that "pressure" can be applied, especially since they are both members of the same political party.
>"Why aren't the Republicans screaming bloody murder about this?" - I have zero understanding of the Republican thought process.
Me: All of the people in office are Democrats. This would be a great opportunity for Republicans to point fingers. Not a word about how the "Democratic Prosecutor" has behaved from the Republicans that I have seen.
>As for all of the KKK stuff, I cannot say, as it is purely speculation and I have no clue as to the validity of it. Maybe yes, maybe no.
Me: Links between the KKK and the authorities have not been addressed, which is one of the things I *personally* think is being hidden. Anonymous says they have an informant, and can tie the new Mrs. Wilson to the group, but it is still internet smoke. What we do know is that the KKK did a fundraiser for Darren Wilson. You can read more here:
KKK raising money for Ferguson police officer
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/08/19/ku-klux-klan-ferguson-police-michael-brown/14275115/
The KKK also threatened the protesters. You can read more here:
KKK Threatens Lethal Force' Against Ferguson Protesters And Appears on TV To Explain Why http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/14/kkk-threatens-lethal-force-protesters-ferguson_n_6155570.html
>I don't think that they are trying to hide anything. Grand Juries are confidential by design, and they should remain that way. It is not some conspiracy that they are not public. They serve a valuable function in the justice system. Remember, a grand jury is never going to convict anyone of any crime. The purpose of a grand jury is to determine if there is enough evidence to charge an individual with a crime, so that the person can then have a trial.
Me: The confusion is who "they" are, and I wasn't referring to the Grand Jury. My point is more about what the AUTHORITIES are trying to hide. Not following police procedure (the Salon article details the missing documents), prosecutorial incompetence (I didn't even mention the "incorrect instructions not valid since 1985"
, conflicts of interest (Prosecutor is president of an organization that gave $$$ to Wilson), history of racism in handling traffic stops/searches, etc. When the Prosecutor goes to a Grand Jury, it usually takes about a day, and they are trying to CONVINCE them to give an indictment, but that isn't what appears to have happened here.
>However, in this particular case, the prosecutor only brought it before the grand jury under public pressure. The prosecutor was not seeking to indict Wilson, and was merely going through the motions. The prosecutor directs the entire flow of the process and usually controls the outcome.
Me: Yes. He wasted tax payer money going through the motions, and put faith in the whole damn system in jeopardy - WHY?
Ferguson's Prosecutorial Farce
http://www.cleveland.com/darcy/index.ssf/2014/11/fergusons_prosecutorial_farce.html#incart_river
(DU Source: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025874442)
Its Incredibly Rare For A Grand Jury To Do What Fergusons Just Did
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/ferguson-michael-brown-indictment-darren-wilson/
Forensic Pathologist Cyril Wecht SHUTS DOWN All Nonsense in Michael Brown Case
(DU Source: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017228967)
>All of that said, a federal attorney general can still present to a federal grand jury if they feel they have sufficient evidence for federal charges.
Me: We shall see. Hope this helps!
Me: I should have used "aggressively directly examine" instead of "cross examine".
A prominent legal expert eviscerates the Darren Wilson prosecution, in 8 tweets http://www.vox.com/xpress/2014/11/25/7285265/darren-wilson-grand-jury
(DU Source: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025874623)
Still Me: Wilson should have had some questions regarding his credibility asked, based on the whole "weren't you let go from the Jennings Police Department when it was shut down due to corruption?" angle. This would have been a good opportunity for that to get addressed. It was not. WHY?
Officer Darren Wilson Lives in Crestwood, Black Population 1.3%
http://colorlines.com/archives/2014/08/officer_darren_wilson_lives_in_crestwood_black_population_13.html
(From Article: Wilson previously worked in nearby Jennings, where the black population is 86.1 percent.)
Jennings police department dissolves
http://www.kmov.com/news/local/Jennings-police-department-dissolves-117864314.html
(Article Dated: March 12, 2011 The council said corruption inside the department led to this.)
>"Why the absolute refusal to follow appropriate protocols? Why hiding or not following Sunshine State Law requirements?" - This was a Grand Jury, they are private by design therefore they are exactly the proper procedure. Been that way for centuries.
Me: This was NOT in regard to the Grand Jury. This was in regard to the Ferguson Police Department. You can read more about the issues here:
Unorthodox forensic practices shown in Ferguson documents http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2014/11/26/unorthodox-forensic-practices-shown-ferguson-documents/JEgxCWRIx9y9xYF9QjToeJ/story.html
(DU Source: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025875750)
Still Me: Or if you want to see basic math problems, you can read all about "boxes" versus "packages" and why the dollar value of the convenience store incident seems to be incorrect.
The Ferguson robbery incident report has some problems.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025398525
Still Me: Missouri "Sunshine Law" issues have been mentioned multiple times. You can read more here:
Fergusons massive cover-up: How police departments are protecting Michael Browns killer http://www.salon.com/2014/09/14/fergusons_massive_cover_up_how_police_departments_are_protecting_michael_browns_killer/ (DU has been talking about this for months.)
>"Why didn't the Prosecutor, with obvious conflict of interest due to his own personal family life, not recuse himself?" - I agree they should have.
Me: Okay.
>"Why didn't the Governor appoint a Special Prosecutor? What was he afraid might happen?" - From my understanding of the Missouri law it is outside of the Governor's power to do that.
Me: Yes, I have since learned that the Prosecutor has to REQUEST a "Special Prosecutor"; I also know that "pressure" can be applied, especially since they are both members of the same political party.
>"Why aren't the Republicans screaming bloody murder about this?" - I have zero understanding of the Republican thought process.
Me: All of the people in office are Democrats. This would be a great opportunity for Republicans to point fingers. Not a word about how the "Democratic Prosecutor" has behaved from the Republicans that I have seen.
>As for all of the KKK stuff, I cannot say, as it is purely speculation and I have no clue as to the validity of it. Maybe yes, maybe no.
Me: Links between the KKK and the authorities have not been addressed, which is one of the things I *personally* think is being hidden. Anonymous says they have an informant, and can tie the new Mrs. Wilson to the group, but it is still internet smoke. What we do know is that the KKK did a fundraiser for Darren Wilson. You can read more here:
KKK raising money for Ferguson police officer
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/08/19/ku-klux-klan-ferguson-police-michael-brown/14275115/
The KKK also threatened the protesters. You can read more here:
KKK Threatens Lethal Force' Against Ferguson Protesters And Appears on TV To Explain Why http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/14/kkk-threatens-lethal-force-protesters-ferguson_n_6155570.html
>I don't think that they are trying to hide anything. Grand Juries are confidential by design, and they should remain that way. It is not some conspiracy that they are not public. They serve a valuable function in the justice system. Remember, a grand jury is never going to convict anyone of any crime. The purpose of a grand jury is to determine if there is enough evidence to charge an individual with a crime, so that the person can then have a trial.
Me: The confusion is who "they" are, and I wasn't referring to the Grand Jury. My point is more about what the AUTHORITIES are trying to hide. Not following police procedure (the Salon article details the missing documents), prosecutorial incompetence (I didn't even mention the "incorrect instructions not valid since 1985"
>However, in this particular case, the prosecutor only brought it before the grand jury under public pressure. The prosecutor was not seeking to indict Wilson, and was merely going through the motions. The prosecutor directs the entire flow of the process and usually controls the outcome.
Me: Yes. He wasted tax payer money going through the motions, and put faith in the whole damn system in jeopardy - WHY?
Ferguson's Prosecutorial Farce
http://www.cleveland.com/darcy/index.ssf/2014/11/fergusons_prosecutorial_farce.html#incart_river
(DU Source: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025874442)
Its Incredibly Rare For A Grand Jury To Do What Fergusons Just Did
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/ferguson-michael-brown-indictment-darren-wilson/
Forensic Pathologist Cyril Wecht SHUTS DOWN All Nonsense in Michael Brown Case
(DU Source: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017228967)
>All of that said, a federal attorney general can still present to a federal grand jury if they feel they have sufficient evidence for federal charges.
Me: We shall see. Hope this helps!
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What are the authorities hiding in Missouri? Why NOT cross examine Wilson on the stand? [View all]
IdaBriggs
Nov 2014
OP
Exactly. Why wasn't his "past association with disbanded corrupt Jennings" asked about?
IdaBriggs
Nov 2014
#6
My take is that the prosecutor had no real intention of seeking an indictment.
TexasProgresive
Nov 2014
#34
Since when was the person who called a witness prohibited from questioning the witness?
Bjorn Against
Nov 2014
#5
Really? And yes, KKK. They did fundraising for him, and threatened the protesters.
IdaBriggs
Nov 2014
#8
Of course, neither does a Defendant getting to testify based on prosecutor soft ball direct
Stallion
Nov 2014
#38
While I take your point, Grand Jurors themselves can question witnesses, completely
KingCharlemagne
Nov 2014
#48
if the prosecutor had the slightest interest in an indictment, wilson wouldn't have even been there.
unblock
Nov 2014
#9
prosecutors and the police need each other, they don't like alienating each other.
unblock
Nov 2014
#13
Plus the dad/mom/brother/uncle/cousin all working for St. Louis law enforcement.
IdaBriggs
Nov 2014
#16
Your questions are good. The suggestion that there could be a deep connection with the KKK is also
jwirr
Nov 2014
#15
I think to a big extent that's just the way things are done in that community
Fumesucker
Nov 2014
#46
So Clinton had to answer because he wasn't up against criminal charges / just civil?
IdaBriggs
Nov 2014
#65
Yes. You need to provide the drafters of the Federal Rules your internet definitions.
woolldog
Nov 2014
#81
Thank you, but I am not a lawyer so I apparently used a word that made sense to me, but not the
IdaBriggs
Nov 2014
#68
Thank you! I think she is using it because that is what Prosecutors usually do with Defendants.
IdaBriggs
Nov 2014
#73
Endless "buts" "what if" "wait just a minute" reminds me of Trayvon Martin, who was simply
NoJusticeNoPeace
Nov 2014
#76