Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
64. I have been following closely, so let me try to clarify.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 02:13 PM
Nov 2014
>"Why not cross examine Wilson on the stand?" - This was a Grand Jury, there is no cross examination. This is by design.

Me: I should have used "aggressively directly examine" instead of "cross examine".

A prominent legal expert eviscerates the Darren Wilson prosecution, in 8 tweets http://www.vox.com/xpress/2014/11/25/7285265/darren-wilson-grand-jury
(DU Source: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025874623)

Still Me: Wilson should have had some questions regarding his credibility asked, based on the whole "weren't you let go from the Jennings Police Department when it was shut down due to corruption?" angle. This would have been a good opportunity for that to get addressed. It was not. WHY?

Officer Darren Wilson Lives in Crestwood, Black Population 1.3%
http://colorlines.com/archives/2014/08/officer_darren_wilson_lives_in_crestwood_black_population_13.html
(From Article: “Wilson previously worked in nearby Jennings, where the black population is 86.1 percent.”)

Jennings police department dissolves
http://www.kmov.com/news/local/Jennings-police-department-dissolves-117864314.html
(Article Dated: March 12, 2011 “The council said corruption inside the department led to this.”)

>"Why the absolute refusal to follow appropriate protocols? Why hiding or not following Sunshine State Law requirements?" - This was a Grand Jury, they are private by design therefore they are exactly the proper procedure. Been that way for centuries.

Me: This was NOT in regard to the Grand Jury. This was in regard to the Ferguson Police Department. You can read more about the issues here:

Unorthodox forensic practices shown in Ferguson documents http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2014/11/26/unorthodox-forensic-practices-shown-ferguson-documents/JEgxCWRIx9y9xYF9QjToeJ/story.html
(DU Source: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025875750)

Still Me: Or if you want to see basic math problems, you can read all about "boxes" versus "packages" and why the dollar value of the convenience store incident seems to be incorrect.

The Ferguson “robbery” incident report has some problems.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025398525

Still Me: Missouri "Sunshine Law" issues have been mentioned multiple times. You can read more here:
Ferguson’s massive cover-up: How police departments are protecting Michael Brown’s killer http://www.salon.com/2014/09/14/fergusons_massive_cover_up_how_police_departments_are_protecting_michael_browns_killer/ (DU has been talking about this for months.)

>"Why didn't the Prosecutor, with obvious conflict of interest due to his own personal family life, not recuse himself?" - I agree they should have.

Me: Okay. The question is Why Didn't He? The answer looks to be "because then he couldn't have controlled the outcome" and that makes it look like the dead kid was in trouble, instead of the guy who shot him. The assumption is that the Prosecutor's close ties to the Police Department and dependence on them to do his job meant that he went beyond the benefit of the doubt in this case because he has never run a Grand Jury like that before EVER. I think the corruption/KKK stuff probably ties in - Wilson probably knows where some of the bodies are buried. So does the Prosecutor. If not, why the farce?

>"Why didn't the Governor appoint a Special Prosecutor? What was he afraid might happen?" - From my understanding of the Missouri law it is outside of the Governor's power to do that.

Me: Yes, I have since learned that the Prosecutor has to REQUEST a "Special Prosecutor"; I also know that "pressure" can be applied, especially since they are both members of the same political party.

>"Why aren't the Republicans screaming bloody murder about this?" - I have zero understanding of the Republican thought process.

Me: All of the people in office are Democrats. This would be a great opportunity for Republicans to point fingers. Not a word about how the "Democratic Prosecutor" has behaved from the Republicans that I have seen.

>As for all of the KKK stuff, I cannot say, as it is purely speculation and I have no clue as to the validity of it. Maybe yes, maybe no.

Me: Links between the KKK and the authorities have not been addressed, which is one of the things I *personally* think is being hidden. Anonymous says they have an informant, and can tie the new Mrs. Wilson to the group, but it is still internet smoke. What we do know is that the KKK did a fundraiser for Darren Wilson. You can read more here:
KKK raising money for Ferguson police officer
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/08/19/ku-klux-klan-ferguson-police-michael-brown/14275115/

The KKK also threatened the protesters. You can read more here:
KKK Threatens ‘Lethal Force' Against Ferguson Protesters And Appears on TV To Explain Why http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/14/kkk-threatens-lethal-force-protesters-ferguson_n_6155570.html

>I don't think that they are trying to hide anything. Grand Juries are confidential by design, and they should remain that way. It is not some conspiracy that they are not public. They serve a valuable function in the justice system. Remember, a grand jury is never going to convict anyone of any crime. The purpose of a grand jury is to determine if there is enough evidence to charge an individual with a crime, so that the person can then have a trial.

Me: The confusion is who "they" are, and I wasn't referring to the Grand Jury. My point is more about what the AUTHORITIES are trying to hide. Not following police procedure (the Salon article details the missing documents), prosecutorial incompetence (I didn't even mention the "incorrect instructions not valid since 1985&quot , conflicts of interest (Prosecutor is president of an organization that gave $$$ to Wilson), history of racism in handling traffic stops/searches, etc. When the Prosecutor goes to a Grand Jury, it usually takes about a day, and they are trying to CONVINCE them to give an indictment, but that isn't what appears to have happened here.

>However, in this particular case, the prosecutor only brought it before the grand jury under public pressure. The prosecutor was not seeking to indict Wilson, and was merely going through the motions. The prosecutor directs the entire flow of the process and usually controls the outcome.

Me: Yes. He wasted tax payer money going through the motions, and put faith in the whole damn system in jeopardy - WHY?

Ferguson's Prosecutorial Farce
http://www.cleveland.com/darcy/index.ssf/2014/11/fergusons_prosecutorial_farce.html#incart_river
(DU Source: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025874442)

It’s Incredibly Rare For A Grand Jury To Do What Ferguson’s Just Did
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/ferguson-michael-brown-indictment-darren-wilson/

Forensic Pathologist Cyril Wecht SHUTS DOWN All Nonsense in Michael Brown Case
(DU Source: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017228967)

>All of that said, a federal attorney general can still present to a federal grand jury if they feel they have sufficient evidence for federal charges.

Me: We shall see. Hope this helps!

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Good questions excepting the 2nd in your subject line. TexasProgresive Nov 2014 #1
He did testify before the grand jury Bjorn Against Nov 2014 #2
Exactly. Why wasn't his "past association with disbanded corrupt Jennings" asked about? IdaBriggs Nov 2014 #6
Please explain to me how that works in a grand jury? TexasProgresive Nov 2014 #20
The prosecutor examines the witnesses Bjorn Against Nov 2014 #21
Wilson was not a "defendant" since he was not charged. TexasProgresive Nov 2014 #30
Well he was the supposed target of the prosecution Bjorn Against Nov 2014 #33
My take is that the prosecutor had no real intention of seeking an indictment. TexasProgresive Nov 2014 #34
The DA basically just let Wilson talk. jeff47 Nov 2014 #22
Are members of the jury allowed to question witnesses? TexasProgresive Nov 2014 #31
Depends on the state, IIRC. jeff47 Nov 2014 #32
This message was self-deleted by its author woolldog Nov 2014 #55
Jeff woolldog Nov 2014 #57
I don't know but... Little Star Nov 2014 #3
Because that is what the tear gassing protesters and the media and IdaBriggs Nov 2014 #7
"cross examine" means to be examined by someone other pipoman Nov 2014 #4
Since when was the person who called a witness prohibited from questioning the witness? Bjorn Against Nov 2014 #5
The point is that it isn't a "cross examination" it is a "direct examination" pipoman Nov 2014 #17
OK so you are pointing out a technicality Bjorn Against Nov 2014 #18
I believe there was no provable crime committed pipoman Nov 2014 #25
No, it is not legal to kill a fleeing person Bjorn Against Nov 2014 #26
Factually untrue since 1985. IdaBriggs Nov 2014 #50
Don't believe anything pipoman writes. woolldog Nov 2014 #58
Really? And yes, KKK. They did fundraising for him, and threatened the protesters. IdaBriggs Nov 2014 #8
So what? pipoman Nov 2014 #19
Lots of people have called Wilson a racist Bjorn Against Nov 2014 #23
Nobody with any credibility, nobody with a story or anecdote, pipoman Nov 2014 #36
In other words no one you agree with has called him a racist Bjorn Against Nov 2014 #39
Then educate me pipoman Nov 2014 #40
Many people have read his racist testimony Bjorn Against Nov 2014 #44
Only stupid people. pipoman Nov 2014 #47
I would be interested in any proof... Oktober Nov 2014 #77
How Do You Know That Without Effective Cross Examination? Stallion Nov 2014 #29
"cross examination" doesn't exist in a grand jury... pipoman Nov 2014 #37
Of course, neither does a Defendant getting to testify based on prosecutor soft ball direct Stallion Nov 2014 #38
The entire proceeding was like every other grand jury pipoman Nov 2014 #41
Complete and Utter Nonsense Stallion Nov 2014 #43
While I take your point, Grand Jurors themselves can question witnesses, completely KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #48
THIS IS WRONG woolldog Nov 2014 #56
if the prosecutor had the slightest interest in an indictment, wilson wouldn't have even been there. unblock Nov 2014 #9
That is the point, isn't it? Why didn't the Prosecutor want an indictment? IdaBriggs Nov 2014 #10
prosecutors and the police need each other, they don't like alienating each other. unblock Nov 2014 #13
Plus the dad/mom/brother/uncle/cousin all working for St. Louis law enforcement. IdaBriggs Nov 2014 #16
Hiding? Maybe they're protecting something...like one of their own. HereSince1628 Nov 2014 #11
Excellent questions IdaBriggs. JEB Nov 2014 #12
Massive KKK infiltration in police forces in Central MO. nt tridim Nov 2014 #14
Your questions are good. The suggestion that there could be a deep connection with the KKK is also jwirr Nov 2014 #15
This is all being done in plain sight no one is hiding anything. gordianot Nov 2014 #24
Most of those have been answered. Igel Nov 2014 #27
A Grand Jury is not a trial. earthside Nov 2014 #28
I'm trying to think about it this way. mainstreetonce Nov 2014 #35
Not only was Wilson not cross examined by the prosecutors aint_no_life_nowhere Nov 2014 #42
In response, branford Nov 2014 #45
I think to a big extent that's just the way things are done in that community Fumesucker Nov 2014 #46
Even if Wilson had been questioned further madville Nov 2014 #49
I do not believe that is how things work in a grand jury. IdaBriggs Nov 2014 #54
An individual still retains their 5th Ammendment rights in a grand jury Glassunion Nov 2014 #61
So Clinton had to answer because he wasn't up against criminal charges / just civil? IdaBriggs Nov 2014 #65
He would not have to testify to the Jennings corruption charges either Glassunion Nov 2014 #69
The DA did not want an indictment Gothmog Nov 2014 #51
Maybe they forgot to check for Brown's fingerprints on Wilson's gun? B Calm Nov 2014 #52
That is one of the MANY "failures in protocol" - they did not do this. IdaBriggs Nov 2014 #53
I'm struggling to figure out most of your post. Glassunion Nov 2014 #59
Sure there is. woolldog Nov 2014 #60
I think you are missing something. Glassunion Nov 2014 #62
Wrong. woolldog Nov 2014 #63
I'm still trying to wrap my head around what you are stating. Glassunion Nov 2014 #67
Let me clarify then. woolldog Nov 2014 #70
I agree Glassunion Nov 2014 #74
Of course, Wilson *is* the Defendant here. woolldog Nov 2014 #75
Ok... Where to start. Glassunion Nov 2014 #78
*sigh* woolldog Nov 2014 #79
*sigh* indeed Glassunion Nov 2014 #80
Yes. You need to provide the drafters of the Federal Rules your internet definitions. woolldog Nov 2014 #81
I have been following closely, so let me try to clarify. IdaBriggs Nov 2014 #64
As your own link points out.... woolldog Nov 2014 #66
Thank you, but I am not a lawyer so I apparently used a word that made sense to me, but not the IdaBriggs Nov 2014 #68
Bingo! Glassunion Nov 2014 #71
well woolldog Nov 2014 #72
Thank you! I think she is using it because that is what Prosecutors usually do with Defendants. IdaBriggs Nov 2014 #73
Endless "buts" "what if" "wait just a minute" reminds me of Trayvon Martin, who was simply NoJusticeNoPeace Nov 2014 #76
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»What are the authorities ...»Reply #64