General Discussion

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)

56. There is no perfect system. Anywhere.

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 12:27 AM

Dec 2014

There is no perfect system, anywhere.

A few stories about the NHS, Britain’s national system:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/541740/NHS-plan-axe-brain-tumour-cancer-units-despite-growing-need

NHS England has launched a 12-week consultation on the proposals that could axe 19 of 25 units offering targeted treatment for tumours.
It claims this will eliminate “excess capacity” and improve efficiency and access to the service, which is expected to see a 50 per cent increase in demand over the next four years.
Last night the plans, published by NHS England’s Medical Directorate earlier this month, were branded “shocking” by Liberal Democrat MP Tessa Munt.

http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/521575/Diabetics-lives-are-at-risk-due-to-NHS-failure

BRITAIN is facing a public health time bomb because thousands of people with diabetes are not getting vital treatment they need, new figures reveal.

SNIP

Barbara Young said, “Test strips are the most basic of tools for day-to-day management of Type 1 diabetes and insulin-treated Type 2 diabetes, and so it is very worrying that so many people are telling us they are having their test strips rationed because of cost-saving measures.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/telegraph-view/10639798/NHSs-bureaucratic-failures-put-lives-at-risk.html

Meanwhile, another horrific story shows how bad decision-making could be costing lives. A total of 12 families are now taking legal action against Bristol Royal Hospital, where as many as 20 children died or suffered extreme after-effects following cardiac treatment. On Friday, Sir Bruce Keogh, the country’s most senior doctor, met parents who told him that sometimes there were so few nurses available to care for their children that they were forced to clean up vomit, monitor oxygen levels and administer medicine by themselves. In one particularly distressing case, a baby boy’s operation was delayed five times in one week. Only when he was deemed an “emergency” was he operated on. He died a few hours later, following complications.

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What Form Should US Healthcare Take? [View all] Prophet 451 Dec 2014 OP

NHS/single payer BlindTiresias Dec 2014 #1

How so? Prophet 451 Dec 2014 #2

Doubtful BlindTiresias Dec 2014 #7

Not necessarily. The ACA included funding to help states set up their own single-payer pnwmom Dec 2014 #47

Yeah, we'll see BlindTiresias Dec 2014 #61

You're right, Vermont is finding out how difficult this will be. pnwmom Dec 2014 #63

More access to resources BlindTiresias Dec 2014 #67

America will never not be under the grip of unfettered capitalism. Jamastiene Dec 2014 #76

NHS and single payer are mutually exclusive Recursion Dec 2014 #12

This message was self-deleted by its author Prophet 451 Dec 2014 #16

I'm aware BlindTiresias Dec 2014 #37

Um, do you seriouy expect any divergent opinion? brooklynite Dec 2014 #3

Well, TBH Prophet 451 Dec 2014 #4

The ACA was the best Obama could get fadedrose Dec 2014 #5

Oh, I know Prophet 451 Dec 2014 #6

I really don't even think it was the best mvd Dec 2014 #10

He wasn't negotiating with the GOP and he knew it. He was negotiating with Lieberman and Baucus Recursion Dec 2014 #15

But the more to the right ACA gave Lieberman/Baucus control also mvd Dec 2014 #20

Nonsense. He deliberately buried the public option. woo me with science Dec 2014 #42

Polled Americans was the wrong group fadedrose Dec 2014 #46

If this is a poll, why would you push for a given option? joeglow3 Dec 2014 #64

Not pushing for, expecting Prophet 451 Dec 2014 #73

Aren't B. and C. pretty much the same? nt elias49 Dec 2014 #8

Not quite Prophet 451 Dec 2014 #9

No, you're missing the huge difference. NHS means doctors work for the government. Recursion Dec 2014 #14

Interesting distinction mvd Dec 2014 #31

Part C is also known as Medicare Advantage meow2u3 Dec 2014 #39

Off topic a bit: I've had Kaiser for many years... C Moon Dec 2014 #11

That isn't Kaiser in particular. It's modern medicine in general. pnwmom Dec 2014 #48

NHS isn't single payer. You can be NHS or you can be single payer. Medicare-for-all is single payer Recursion Dec 2014 #13

Right, now I'm with you Prophet 451 Dec 2014 #17

Oddly enough, the closest thing to Canada's system was proposed by Baucus Recursion Dec 2014 #18

Does that system work well? Prophet 451 Dec 2014 #19

People seem to like it Recursion Dec 2014 #25

We still have private insurers here Prophet 451 Dec 2014 #28

Interestingly, in Canada it's illegal to bill for any covered treatment privately Recursion Dec 2014 #30

Haven't lived there but Canadians seem happy overall mvd Dec 2014 #27

Yeah, Americans go ballistic whenever someone mentions "socialism" Prophet 451 Dec 2014 #32

Where are you getting that $750 figure? pnwmom Dec 2014 #49

That's why the trust fund is shrinking Recursion Dec 2014 #51

It's not a reflection on the Medicare system that the Fed government pnwmom Dec 2014 #55

But I mean that's the actual cost of Medicare per beneficiary Recursion Dec 2014 #58

But Medicare patients aren't paying that personally. n/t pnwmom Dec 2014 #59

No, it's a social insurance program. But if we expand Medicare to everyone Recursion Dec 2014 #60

And if we went to something like NHS, we'd have to figure out how to fund that, too. pnwmom Dec 2014 #62

Ironically, the insanity of our 2010 debate probably saved the UK NHS Recursion Dec 2014 #66

so not the same! ellennelle Dec 2014 #21

And Medicare still uses private insurance companies to do the actual insuring Recursion Dec 2014 #22

In my defence, I'm British Prophet 451 Dec 2014 #24

Few Americans do, it seems Recursion Dec 2014 #26

That seems needlessly complicated Prophet 451 Dec 2014 #29

which? ellennelle Dec 2014 #36

Medicare Prophet 451 Dec 2014 #40

What do you mean by "actual insuring"? pnwmom Dec 2014 #50

Actually paying providers Recursion Dec 2014 #52

The money comes from the Fed govt. But yes, insurance companies pnwmom Dec 2014 #53

I agree; I'm not saying that's a bug Recursion Dec 2014 #57

Taxes don't actually need to go up Prophet 451 Dec 2014 #23

You nailed it at the end. Socal31 Dec 2014 #33

I chose other because I know what the HS system is in Europe, and I'd LOVE to have theirs. napi21 Dec 2014 #34

"Europe" has a lot of health care systems Recursion Dec 2014 #35

I don't know about the other countries you mentioned, but napi21 Dec 2014 #70

Well, first off, I don't agree that insurance companies are "in charge of everything here" Recursion Dec 2014 #71

NO SIR. There was NO CHARGE! He asked about what he owed, and they said nothing. napi21 Dec 2014 #72

Probably comes under E111 scheme Prophet 451 Dec 2014 #75

OK, I'm slow; give me some help rock Dec 2014 #38

The dumb Brit's confusion Prophet 451 Dec 2014 #41

No dumber than me rock Dec 2014 #43

The more I think about it, the more I think Medicare is inadequate as well. alarimer Dec 2014 #44

They're covered under an NHS system Prophet 451 Dec 2014 #74

Fully socialist. Public health, public education, would be federally funded by income taxes. hunter Dec 2014 #45

It took about 20 yrs to get this through Congress and it will take another 20yrs to undue what the CK_John Dec 2014 #54

There is no perfect system. Anywhere. pnwmom Dec 2014 #56

True, there's no perfect system mvd Dec 2014 #65

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2014 #68

3 darts at 10 paces Kennah Dec 2014 #69