General Discussion

Ms. Toad

(38,347 posts)

121. What you quoted

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 03:41 AM

Dec 2014

is based on the general rule ADA for accommodations. It predates the specific regulations implementing the ADA with respect to service animals.

Even so, the example given is consistent with the regulations I quoted to you: Generally, this is not likely to occur in restaurants, hotels, retail stores, theaters, concert halls, and sports facilities. But when it does, for example, when a dog barks during a movie, the animal can be excluded.

In other words there are a few rare exceptions, not "a wide variety of conditions." Specifically two exceptions, and the example falls within the exception that the "animal is out of control and the animal´s handler does not take effective action to control it."

As for links, I gave you the citation to the regulation which I quoted. Let me google that for you Rule 36.302

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

259 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Mall Santa Turns Away Girl with Autism Because of Pit Bull Service Dog [View all] irisblue Dec 2014 OP

oh, my, that dog looks sooooo vicious. niyad Dec 2014 #1

bengal tigers are also beautiful arent they - who doesnt love seeing a cute brown bear scratching belzabubba333 Dec 2014 #6

First of all, pit bulls are domesticated, not wild animals like the others you list... joeybee12 Dec 2014 #9

everyone in the group of people who were attacked were told - dont worry he wont bite belzabubba333 Dec 2014 #13

Were I afraid of dogs, I'd attempt to rationalize it too. LanternWaste Dec 2014 #15

as joeybee wrote, "wild vs. domesticated." Gormy Cuss Dec 2014 #19

Neither are Pit Bulls n/t Aerows Dec 2014 #23

Pit bulls are canis lupus familiaris, AKA domesticated dogs. n/t Gormy Cuss Dec 2014 #36

Same as any other dog. uppityperson Dec 2014 #41

Editorial or objective fact? LanternWaste Dec 2014 #44

Thanks for the laugh Scootaloo Dec 2014 #52

Really? No one has ever been bit by a dog who was known to be dangerous? nt uppityperson Dec 2014 #24

How many people has that dog attacked? baldguy Dec 2014 #69

"This dog would not attack...never" Taitertots Dec 2014 #25

Service dogs for autistic children are very expensive and very specially trained, matched and Douglas Carpenter Dec 2014 #30

The titanic was an expensive ship Taitertots Dec 2014 #40

Here is the language, which applies to public accommodations- Ms. Toad Dec 2014 #54

I see you ignored the exception for situations that fundamentally alter the nature of the business. Taitertots Dec 2014 #75

What you quoted Ms. Toad Dec 2014 #121

And I see that you ignored that the family said they would take the dog while the child visited notadmblnd Dec 2014 #201

Of course you know this is for all intents and purposes NOT true etherealtruth Dec 2014 #74

It needs to be a PROFESSIONALLY TRAINED service animal... cleanhippie Dec 2014 #101

I am trying to figute out why you are so sure of this .... ? etherealtruth Dec 2014 #136

Wanna bet that that dog was not professionally trained as a service dog? cleanhippie Dec 2014 #94

link? or ANY other evidence this was not a professionally trained service dog Douglas Carpenter Dec 2014 #247

Thank you for the excellent explanation. The significant sentence in your explanation is... napi21 Dec 2014 #212

I do not see any documented research on properly trained dogs irisblue Dec 2014 #80

Second, the dog is a service dog, and you KNOW this for a fact belzabubba333 Dec 2014 #67

Maybe I believe them when they said it was her service dog... joeybee12 Dec 2014 #71

thanks for bringing the picture over. irisblue Dec 2014 #16

Wanna bet that that dog was not professionally trained as a service dog? cleanhippie Dec 2014 #93

No, I will not "bet" that, liberalhistorian Dec 2014 #149

Your anecdote and emotional attempt to diaparge me are irrelevant. cleanhippie Dec 2014 #164

What makes you think it was not liberalhistorian Dec 2014 #166

No. DeSwiss Dec 2014 #208

Your posts are evidence that you do. cleanhippie Dec 2014 #241

again can you provide ANY evidence this dog was not professinally trained? ANY? Douglas Carpenter Dec 2014 #248

link? Douglas Carpenter Dec 2014 #246

"We do not condone the behavior displayed by Santa" Enrique Dec 2014 #2

That's just cruel! Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #3

It's been the decade of stupid names snooper2 Dec 2014 #4

That's what happens when expecting parents are drunk, high Blue_Tires Dec 2014 #17

Christ, I hope they put more creativity into coming up with their passwords on the internet. Warren DeMontague Dec 2014 #122

N/T skamaria Dec 2014 #20

I'd assume that it's a variation on "Abcity". Xithras Dec 2014 #28

It's the first 5 letters of the alphabet sammytko Dec 2014 #31

Second child is probably named Fghij Ms. Toad Dec 2014 #33

Says the guy calling himself Bloodaxe... LanternWaste Dec 2014 #43

I'm not pseudonymous. This is my name. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #48

Holy shit, that really is your name. Codeine Dec 2014 #134

Sort of. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #135

People Can't RobinA Dec 2014 #174

Agreed customerserviceguy Dec 2014 #84

Wow, that is an asshole post. a la izquierda Dec 2014 #129

The anti-Pit Bull bigots are rife with assholery baldguy Dec 2014 #259

Cute kid. Sounds like one jerk did wrong and was booted for it. Glad to hear it. Orrex Dec 2014 #5

yea he's a jerk cause pitbulls never attack unprovoked belzabubba333 Dec 2014 #7

I am no fan of pit bulls, but the ADA is clear. Orrex Dec 2014 #11

I don't like the idea of using pit bulls for yeoman6987 Dec 2014 #60

Haha. Socal31 Dec 2014 #76

" His life was at severe risk. Heck even if he ends up fired, at least he is alive."??? ahhahahahaha uppityperson Dec 2014 #79

It is so unfair that you read me like a book yeoman6987 Dec 2014 #85

About the American Humane Association Hero Dog Awards etherealtruth Dec 2014 #90

+1 liberal_at_heart Dec 2014 #109

"His life was at severe risk." WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2014 #95

great pictures. Thank you. Adorable dogs. liberal_at_heart Dec 2014 #110

I grew up with dogs but as an adult... WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2014 #159

Almost been attacked by two pitbulls. Call it what you will, I don't trust them. MillennialDem Dec 2014 #112

Don't care if you don't trust them. If a pit bull is a service animal they are protected by the ADA. liberal_at_heart Dec 2014 #116

Well, I'll take getting fired rather than fear losing a finger or two. MillennialDem Dec 2014 #120

I've been assaulted by a person with Bipolar Disorder... Odin2005 Dec 2014 #141

A. I don't assume all pitbulls are violent monsters, I just would rather not take my MillennialDem Dec 2014 #155

So, you think you can tell a Pit Bull by the way it looks? baldguy Dec 2014 #175

Again I said pitbull or similar breed. And I'm sorry if it offends you that I won't MillennialDem Dec 2014 #178

You made a claim. Back it up. baldguy Dec 2014 #180

What claim did I make? MillennialDem Dec 2014 #181

"I can tell by outward appearances whether a dog is a pitbull, pitbull mix, or similar breed." baldguy Dec 2014 #182

Ok well what are your rules for "similar breed" - because all if not most of those dogs MillennialDem Dec 2014 #183

There are three accepted breeds of Pit Bull: baldguy Dec 2014 #185

LOL. Ok, I'm a bigot because... why? Because I won't pet your dog? You really should think MillennialDem Dec 2014 #188

You're a bigot because you pass judgement on someone based on the way they look, baldguy Dec 2014 #189

Even if true, there is nothing illegal about that and it's of no legal or moral consequence. MillennialDem Dec 2014 #191

Sorry, but ignoring the requirements of the ADA is a crime. baldguy Dec 2014 #194

And I said earlier (try reading my other posts) that I would face the consequence for violating it MillennialDem Dec 2014 #196

Yes, bigotry is an evil thing. And evil is a cruel & unforgiving master. baldguy Dec 2014 #197

I know right? I'll be remembered for my evil heart like Hitler, Charles Manson, Dick Cheney, Ghengis MillennialDem Dec 2014 #199

Nothing so grandiose. baldguy Dec 2014 #203

MillennialDem, I have two disabled people in my immediate family, one liberal_at_heart Dec 2014 #204

Technically a civil infraction, not a criminal act. No one goes to "ADA jail". nt kelly1mm Dec 2014 #253

Awwwww! Odin2005 Dec 2014 #213

I've been attacked by a German Shepherd. WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2014 #161

My mom had a German shepherd / collie mix. That dog never once bit anyone but MillennialDem Dec 2014 #168

One of the two pitbulls was owned by good owners who tried everything to get her MillennialDem Dec 2014 #169

you do know that "nanny dog" thing is nothing but a myth DrDan Dec 2014 #125

To be specific... WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2014 #165

You're repling to someone who believes the only good Pit Bull is a dead Pit Bull. baldguy Dec 2014 #176

"Apologists" was the tip off... WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2014 #187

I love pibbies. I have many friends with pibbies, and the dogs are all sweethearts--except for ONE, tblue37 Dec 2014 #132

Yeah, that would make me nervous, too... WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2014 #167

They were NEVER considered "nanny dogs" until a woman trying to get them in the AKC KittyWampus Dec 2014 #184

Thank you for this! SammyWinstonJack Dec 2014 #227

You're welcome! WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2014 #239

Wow, your ignorance is sad. Odin2005 Dec 2014 #140

You appear to have no dea the kind of training service dogs receive etherealtruth Dec 2014 #21

"Ignorance is never an attractive trait" neither is name calling belzabubba333 Dec 2014 #63

Says the one claiming all Pit Bulls are vicious killers. baldguy Dec 2014 #70

Yeah, pit bulls would never harm anyone Art_from_Ark Dec 2014 #111

How many pit bull service animals have bitten people? How many pit bulls that have liberal_at_heart Dec 2014 #113

How many pit bull service animals are there as opposed to other breeds? Art_from_Ark Dec 2014 #118

Except that the site you link to is nothing but bullshit baldguy Dec 2014 #127

Excuse me, no one was called a name etherealtruth Dec 2014 #73

Ths is what RW anti-science bullshit gets us. baldguy Dec 2014 #128

That ignorance and prejudice is exactly why the ADA has to be so emphatic about... Odin2005 Dec 2014 #143

That is the ENTIRE point! etherealtruth Dec 2014 #147

As an autistic person, Amen. Odin2005 Dec 2014 #148

well said! liberal_at_heart Dec 2014 #150

a service dog for autistic children cost approximately $20,000 because of the rigorous selection Douglas Carpenter Dec 2014 #22

They are using Labs, Golden Retrievers, and Golden-lab mixes. LisaL Dec 2014 #117

The ADA does not restrict what kind of dog is trained & used as a service dog. baldguy Dec 2014 #131

Google "Service Dog breeds' etherealtruth Dec 2014 #133

based on the OP they offered to take the dog away while the girl was with santa JI7 Dec 2014 #53

yea that's where i'd agree with santa's removal. if that was the case belzabubba333 Dec 2014 #64

At first I thought they were giving her a pseudonym... brendan120678 Dec 2014 #8

If that dog came up to me sarisataka Dec 2014 #10

More people are gored annually by pit bull antlers than by any other breed's antlers. Orrex Dec 2014 #12

^LOL^ irisblue Dec 2014 #18

Another look at the vicious beast: friendly_iconoclast Dec 2014 #32

what a cutie! liberal_at_heart Dec 2014 #50

Love the get up Worried senior Dec 2014 #158

They are both adorable, and look at that smile on that cute little girl's face. liberal_at_heart Dec 2014 #51

Both the girl and the pooch are adorable! Odin2005 Dec 2014 #139

I am so stealing that name. UncleYoder Dec 2014 #14

Smooth move Santa. lpbk2713 Dec 2014 #26

i knew he was a jerk-i mean i never got what i asked for dembotoz Dec 2014 #39

and some DUers are defending him. liberal_at_heart Dec 2014 #107

that guy never had any business being a santa. xchrom Dec 2014 #27

Problem with service animals TexasMommaWithAHat Dec 2014 #29

saw a lady on the bus hauling around 2 cats in a wheeled bin - her "service animals" Liberal_in_LA Dec 2014 #34

You assume every service animal must function Ms. Toad Dec 2014 #35

There is a lack of understanding about service animals which leads to prejudice and discrimination liberal_at_heart Dec 2014 #45

There is a lack of understanding, in general, about disabilities Ms. Toad Dec 2014 #47

I completely agree. My husband is legally blind and has a legally blind friend who has liberal_at_heart Dec 2014 #49

Oh, that's awful! TexasMommaWithAHat Dec 2014 #61

As it happens, people in my area used to foster young dogs to be trained as service animals for the hedgehog Dec 2014 #58

Was this dog a PROFESIONALLY TRAINED Service Dog or a family pet the family designated as one? cleanhippie Dec 2014 #91

That is a tremendous organization etherealtruth Dec 2014 #138

I understand that some animals offer emotional support TexasMommaWithAHat Dec 2014 #57

After owning a B&G Macaw for 18 years....... truegrit44 Dec 2014 #98

Not all service animals need to be "dragged around" Ms. Toad Dec 2014 #123

Emotional support’ pig removed from airplane hedgehog Dec 2014 #56

Well, when he defecated and started squealing TexasMommaWithAHat Dec 2014 #68

I'll bet a million bucks that dog was not professionally trained as a service dog. cleanhippie Dec 2014 #92

How many times do you need to say this? AndreaCG Dec 2014 #97

As many times as it takes for it to get through. cleanhippie Dec 2014 #99

Did you even READ the buzzfeed post? AndreaCG Dec 2014 #102

Where, in any article, has the family shown that it was a professionally trained service animal? cleanhippie Dec 2014 #144

But you don't know do you, so quit pushing the uninformed prejudice against service animals. liberal_at_heart Dec 2014 #103

This probably wasn't professionally trained service animal. cleanhippie Dec 2014 #142

I am reposting one of my posts from above etherealtruth Dec 2014 #154

And that's the problem. ANYONE can designate their pet as a "service animal" cleanhippie Dec 2014 #162

you may agree with santa .... but you both would violate the ADA etherealtruth Dec 2014 #171

Yeah, because not allowing people to bring their pets to then mall is putting hurdles in their way. cleanhippie Dec 2014 #242

again, do you have ANY evidence - ANY evidence whatsoever that this was not a properly trained Douglas Carpenter Dec 2014 #251

I'll bet a million bucks that you don't have the credentials to make that determination. baldguy Dec 2014 #177

Lol cleanhippie Dec 2014 #240

You keep stating this many times in this thread. Do you think it matters for ADA complience kelly1mm Dec 2014 #254

I can understand if the person has a fear of dogs but once the parents offered dilby Dec 2014 #37

I am so sick of this shit! Making it right later does not make it okay!! jillan Dec 2014 #38

I think that without knowing exactly how this dog was trained, it may not be covered under hedgehog Dec 2014 #42

From the looks the dog came from BullNanies which does emotional support dogs not service dogs. dilby Dec 2014 #55

According to Buzzfeed the dog is a Service Dog vs an emotional support dog etherealtruth Dec 2014 #82

They're all "service" dogs, imo. TexasMommaWithAHat Dec 2014 #130

I don't understand your point missingthebigdog Dec 2014 #86

Turns out that this isn't the first rodeo that Pup-Cake's been kicked out of - hedgehog Dec 2014 #46

I live near the mall where that happened minivan2 Dec 2014 #59

That Santa probably thinks Autism is caused by bad parenting. Even after the parents offered liberal_at_heart Dec 2014 #66

This sounds like a huge misunderstanding. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #62

being afraid does not excuse someone from following the ADA. White people use the liberal_at_heart Dec 2014 #65

Way over the top statement. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #72

You are equating black people with dogs ProudToBeBlueInRhody Dec 2014 #81

I'm equating prejudice with prejudice. liberal_at_heart Dec 2014 #104

Stop the racist broad-brushing. WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2014 #89

Bad Santa. nt TeamPooka Dec 2014 #77

Seems like more than one person here pre-judges based on ignorant fear. Socal31 Dec 2014 #78

How do you know that this man never had a traumatic incident with a dog? n/m ProudToBeBlueInRhody Dec 2014 #83

+1. liberal_at_heart Dec 2014 #105

Santa was wrong for turning them away after they agreed to take the dog away from the area ProudToBeBlueInRhody Dec 2014 #87

Sounds like this guy was just pertrifed of dogs helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #88

Exactly. nt ecstatic Dec 2014 #96

Sounds like the guy knows the difference between a trained service dog and the family pet... cleanhippie Dec 2014 #100

You are going on ignore. Bye bye. liberal_at_heart Dec 2014 #106

Lol cleanhippie Dec 2014 #145

You are the one without a rational argument. Coventina Dec 2014 #152

The lack of a certified training certificate is the proof. cleanhippie Dec 2014 #163

So in other words, you have nothing. Coventina Dec 2014 #170

Lol. Ok, you tell yourself whatever you need to tell yourself. cleanhippie Dec 2014 #243

Wow, if you can laugh at disabled children suffering discrimination Coventina Dec 2014 #257

Just because he disagrees about the dog being a service dog or family pet? Reter Dec 2014 #245

They are different but both serve an important purpose helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #114

There are laws regarding public access for service animals. cleanhippie Dec 2014 #146

One thing you see a lot in the hotel industry is people who come in with dogs helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #115

LMAO!! darkangel218 Dec 2014 #153

I guess now when I can look back at it I can laugh helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #157

I found this but not sure of the facts >> BlueJazz Dec 2014 #108

The ADA does not restrict what kind of dog is trained & used as a service dog. baldguy Dec 2014 #179

about legal rights for poorly trained service dogs irisblue Dec 2014 #119

Bad Santa LostOne4Ever Dec 2014 #124

That Santa's getting a lump of coal. Odin2005 Dec 2014 #126

How sad madokie Dec 2014 #137

I get that the guy may have had trauma in the past RedCappedBandit Dec 2014 #151

Under the ADA fear and /or allergies is not an acceptable reason to not give service etherealtruth Dec 2014 #156

I'm aware RedCappedBandit Dec 2014 #160

i would have had empathy had he agreed to see the little girl after they (family) offered to remove etherealtruth Dec 2014 #172

Mine didn't. But like I said, it doesn't make any sense. nt RedCappedBandit Dec 2014 #173

There's no ethical reason to perpetuate any man-made breed of dog ErikJ Dec 2014 #186

What a moronic statement. baldguy Dec 2014 #190

HA! Even bird hunting dogs? ErikJ Dec 2014 #192

You want to ban a breed of dogs based on - well, really no reason at all. baldguy Dec 2014 #193

Dog breeds are man-made just like car brands. ErikJ Dec 2014 #195

Other than the fact that they're not manufactured objects, baldguy Dec 2014 #198

Very racist to compare dog breeds to races of humans. ErikJ Dec 2014 #200

Oh, right. I'm against mass killing of any kind, so that makes me a racist. baldguy Dec 2014 #202

Comparing dog breeds to humans is racist. ErikJ Dec 2014 #205

Promoting mass killing is evil. baldguy Dec 2014 #209

Nobody is saying mass-killing of pits! ErikJ Dec 2014 #210

If you don't think that breed bans don't result in mass killing of dogs, baldguy Dec 2014 #211

HA! Now youre sounding like a religious dogmatic (no pun intended) pro-lifer. ErikJ Dec 2014 #214

You love dogs so much, you want to see them put to death. How sick & twisted is that? baldguy Dec 2014 #217

Hyperbolic propaganda. Not breeding is NOT mass killing. Pit bulls were MAN-made for evil purpose ErikJ Dec 2014 #219

The evil was man-made. But you care nothing about blaming the people, only blaming their victims. baldguy Dec 2014 #220

Thats like saying I'm blaming the machine guns.. which were outlawed for sale in the US 70 yrs ago. ErikJ Dec 2014 #221

You're trying to cast living, feeling creatures as inert, inanimate objects. baldguy Dec 2014 #224

OK how about to cow or chickens which are living and breathing ErikJ Dec 2014 #231

Now you're compareing animals who are house pets & family membes to food animals. baldguy Dec 2014 #234

I'm deleting this thread. I can't handle the hateful, fear based, prejudice and liberal_at_heart Dec 2014 #206

Keep in mind .... etherealtruth Dec 2014 #207

Santa fears pitbulls. Reason? flvegan Dec 2014 #215

Just a bit of googling will tell u why. ErikJ Dec 2014 #222

And you ignore the 1000 other incidents of dog attacks that occurred. baldguy Dec 2014 #226

Other breeds dont ErikJ Dec 2014 #230

You don't appear to understand that ALL dogs are carnivores - that means they eat meat. baldguy Dec 2014 #256

Technically, all dogs are omnivores. But, I'm behind you 100% Coventina Dec 2014 #258

The reactionary hatred for service animals in this thread is sickening. Odin2005 Dec 2014 #216

+1000 baldguy Dec 2014 #218

Pit bull service dog attacks three people in Yakima ErikJ Dec 2014 #223

20 yrs obviously hasen't taught you that any dog can attack. baldguy Dec 2014 #225

There are SO many people here with a bias against these dogs its sickening dorkzilla Dec 2014 #228

What gets me is that they use the same language & reasoning as the bigots who support baldguy Dec 2014 #233

Yep, i've thought that myself dorkzilla Dec 2014 #236

Just keep your fighting killer dogs away from the dog park then. ErikJ Dec 2014 #229

I don't have a killer fighting dog. I have a Pit Bull. baldguy Dec 2014 #232

It is, but as I posted to liberal_at_heart (above) etherealtruth Dec 2014 #235

Not to mention how in this case thucythucy Dec 2014 #238

I suspect apprehension at the sight of the dog had little to do thucythucy Dec 2014 #237

well yes, once the family offered to take the dog away while the little girl visits with Santa - Douglas Carpenter Dec 2014 #249

I hate to be the one to disagree, but... Reter Dec 2014 #244

Except that's not what "Santa" did. thucythucy Dec 2014 #250

Pup-Cake the Service Dog's Facebook page now has more than 28,000 likes Douglas Carpenter Dec 2014 #252

Actually Pup-Cake is a certified and trained service dog Douglas Carpenter Dec 2014 #255