General Discussion

Proud Public Servant

(2,097 posts)

61. Um, no

Thu Dec 4, 2014, 04:32 PM

Dec 2014

Neither of them ran as centrists. They may have both run as pragmatic -- in the sense that they ran as guys who could do things -- but what candidate doesn't? But more to the point, neither of them appealed to a "base"; they instead cut across bases to build new coalitions. Obama may have done that as well (though, honestly, I'm not sure he has; he hasn't really pulled people out of the GOP the way FDR did, or the way Reagan pulled Democrats).

Still, even taking your point at face value, wouldn't, say, Warren be running as a "pragmatic centrist outsider"? Of course she would. And there's no question that defending the middle class from a predatory Wall St. is a message that cuts across party lines. The only question is whether the time is right, and it may not be, just as it wasn't for Reagan in '76.

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How I would describe the division within DU [View all] Recursion Dec 2014 OP

I don't drink with woodchucks... tkmorris Dec 2014 #1

Well, we are kind of assholes. We tend to chuck wood (nt) Recursion Dec 2014 #2

Can I be a mongoose? Penguins scare me. Rex Dec 2014 #17

As a Linux user I really like penguins, but I hereby appoint you DU's resident Riki-Tiki-Tavi Recursion Dec 2014 #19

Oh come on, don't you want to be a mongoose like the rest of us Windoze users? Rex Dec 2014 #22

I don't know... about 25% of the Linux kernel was written by the NSA Recursion Dec 2014 #24

Did not know that, those crazy kids on the starship Enterprise! Rex Dec 2014 #28

Darmok and Jalad Recursion Dec 2014 #31

That weakling Picard, Kirk would have fought him to the death after first beam down. Rex Dec 2014 #36

Wild Mongooses (Mongeese?) are surprisingly friendly stevenleser Dec 2014 #81

I wonder why the word goose is in there at all. Rex Dec 2014 #83

Fed wild ones by hand in Kenya's Masai Mara. They seem to love people. nt stevenleser Dec 2014 #84

It's not, really. It's originally a Marathi word Recursion Dec 2014 #99

I may be an asshole but I don't "chuck wood"... TeeYiYi Dec 2014 #38

I learned many many years ago Caretha Dec 2014 #97

I agree, as a fellow woodchuck. kwassa Dec 2014 #3

Oh, boy, are you going to get it now.... MineralMan Dec 2014 #4

Considering how destructive woodchucks are Warpy Dec 2014 #32

The only two Democrats to beat Republican incumbents last month were conservatives Recursion Dec 2014 #47

The longer the party pursues this strategy Warpy Dec 2014 #52

Conservative democrats were our only pick-ups. Recursion Dec 2014 #54

How many conservative Democrats got defeated? Warpy Dec 2014 #82

Well, let's see. 10 incumbent Democrats were defeated. 2 were conservative. Recursion Dec 2014 #98

It's like Groundhog Day, Everyday! adirondacker Dec 2014 #77

You're right. Proud Penguin here. appalachiablue Dec 2014 #91

Don't think that follows whatthehey Dec 2014 #118

Wait, a woodchuck is a marmot? And is also a groundhog? And a whistle-pig is a petronius Dec 2014 #69

Marmota monax Recursion Dec 2014 #71

Largest species of squirrel in North America, too. MineralMan Dec 2014 #72

I think that is part of it - but it misses the potential of a real transformative campaign el_bryanto Dec 2014 #5

I don't see a general conservative drift. Igel Dec 2014 #16

Reasonable enough whatthehey Dec 2014 #6

So to summarize - just so I am clear on your hypothesis - NRaleighLiberal Dec 2014 #7

That's a good way of putting it Recursion Dec 2014 #8

There are cliques, temporary and permanent alliances made on a daily bases. Rex Dec 2014 #9

No it's not Recursion Dec 2014 #10

Yes there...ohhhh I see what you did there... Rex Dec 2014 #12

Given that woodchucks and we'll call them wolverines dominate the media it's hardly surprising Fumesucker Dec 2014 #11

So, one thing I've noticed, is that everyone -- and I mean everyone -- feels attacked here Recursion Dec 2014 #13

I wrote about DU early this year.. Fumesucker Dec 2014 #60

Amen, Recursion yourpicturehere Dec 2014 #103

I think you nailed it. Except that I would use the term Guy Whitey Corngood Dec 2014 #64

Weasels are occasionally carriers of rabies, though they do not get symptoms Recursion Dec 2014 #66

Barack Obama won two presidential elections despite being portrayed and perceived ... dawg Dec 2014 #14

Penquin or woodchuck is fine . . . brush Dec 2014 #15

Well, personally I belong to no organized political party: I am a Democrat Recursion Dec 2014 #18

The line between criticism and disrespect is often unclear. Igel Dec 2014 #20

Good points. But calling the president a lying piece of shit is disrespectful, divisive and shameful brush Dec 2014 #79

I would have chosen a different set of animals though. sadoldgirl Dec 2014 #21

(If that's a serious question) it's from a popular cartoon series often posted here Recursion Dec 2014 #23

No offense taken, sadoldgirl Dec 2014 #26

It's not a cartoon, it is a political comic strip in print, static, not animated. Bluenorthwest Dec 2014 #34

^^^ What Bluenorthwest said Recursion Dec 2014 #37

ah, the pragmatic shades of grey woodchuck vs. the purity black and white of the penguin. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #25

I'm not even sure about that Recursion Dec 2014 #29

Disagree and here's why justiceischeap Dec 2014 #27

Penguins believe in the fierce urgency of the now, Woodchucks say 'let's let the violence continue Bluenorthwest Dec 2014 #30

But outside of the western states, policies don't appear on ballots Recursion Dec 2014 #33

That's not even cloes to true. But it does serve you in avoiding the point I suppose. Bluenorthwest Dec 2014 #40

Name me any single national ballot initiative, ever. Recursion Dec 2014 #43

Of course we don't have national initiatives, we all know that our elections are State elections, no Bluenorthwest Dec 2014 #49

Right, and Americans repeatedly don't vote for politicians who support the initiatives they vote for Recursion Dec 2014 #51

MA also has ballot initiatives. n/t seaglass Dec 2014 #78

You're missing a lot more than one state. Jim Lane Dec 2014 #89

Hillary is just a moderate Republican, let's be honest I am neither a woodchuck nor a penguin. silvershadow Dec 2014 #35

I love Bernie, but when people say Hllary is a Republican then tout Warren, who was a hard core GOP Bluenorthwest Dec 2014 #45

The hell of this is Hillary has had these Democrat positions for years, and some have Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #58

But she's "corporate" Recursion Dec 2014 #68

You can put any name on her you want, she isn't anymore "corporate" than anyone who has Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #74

"Goldman Sachs� actions were deceptive and immoral.� think Dec 2014 #76

She still isn't any more "corporate" than the others, the lobbyists are in their faces all the Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #85

Goldman Sachs isn't just another corporation. They're at the heart of why the game is rigged think Dec 2014 #87

Part of telling it like it is goes to if you don't like candidates taking money from corporations Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #90

Utter nonsense. Some corporations are evil scum but most aren't. It's not all or nothing. think Dec 2014 #93

"Smiles can brighten cloudy days" RiverLover Dec 2014 #95

Where is your campaign fund and how many dollars are in so far? Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #100

Goldman Sachs sold worthless securities to it's clients and then bet against them think Dec 2014 #104

I did not see where your campaign fund is located and how much is in the fund. The Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #113

Where did I say ANYTHING about not taking ANY corporate donations? think Dec 2014 #114

I provided a way to halt any corporations from giving to candidates whether it is Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #116

"Goldman Sachs� actions were deceptive and immoral." No kidding!!! RiverLover Dec 2014 #117

Yep. Corporate government collusion is destroying America think Dec 2014 #120

No more than other members of Congress or political offices. They all take contributions Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #86

Was FDR a woodchuck? Was Reagan? Proud Public Servant Dec 2014 #39

Well, both of them certainly ran as "pragmatic centrist outsiders" Recursion Dec 2014 #41

Um, no Proud Public Servant Dec 2014 #61

Of course she could. She'd remind people that she voted for Reagan twice. Recursion Dec 2014 #63

Considering that the RP platform under Ike sadoldgirl Dec 2014 #42

Arkansas raised the minimum wage while electing the Republican Senate candidate Recursion Dec 2014 #44

But you know very well, sadoldgirl Dec 2014 #46

A couple of things from Ballotpedia- Bluenorthwest Dec 2014 #50

OK, so what are you saying? Recursion Dec 2014 #56

But the penguin shades are way cooler than the woodchuck librarian glasses hootinholler Dec 2014 #48

Woodchucks are the "reasonable" dems, but rusty fender Dec 2014 #53

Same Third Way talking point. Such desperation to drum that central, absurd claim: woo me with science Dec 2014 #55

Well, since I have no idea what makes one a "corporate" (ooh! scary!) Democrat, I can't respond Recursion Dec 2014 #57

They are aligned with Goldman Sachs rather than the American people ... think Dec 2014 #67

You could say the same for any of the other buzzwords.. Fumesucker Dec 2014 #70

Here's how I see it.... Spazito Dec 2014 #59

I think it's middle of the road social liberals (Democrats) vs. the misc. disaffected cultural left Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2014 #62

That's probably a good point that Occupy marked a big change Recursion Dec 2014 #65

Option #3: Eagles. Those who don't know, but will are willing to risk Zorra Dec 2014 #73

I think threads like this is why DU's popularity is way down Mosby Dec 2014 #75

nah, DU popularity is down because people post opinion as fact Baclava Dec 2014 #88

i consider myself a liberal and support Hillary. hrmjustin Dec 2014 #80

Penguins don't understand the necessity to chuck wood Generic Brad Dec 2014 #92

In defense of Modified Neo-Penguinism Jim Lane Dec 2014 #94

I thnk you miss the point entirely. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #96

This country doesn't want to follow an ideology Man from Pickens Dec 2014 #101

Post removed Post removed Dec 2014 #102

Actually, you forgot the sharks Skidmore Dec 2014 #105

IMO it is those who accept the system as it is and knew Obama did treestar Dec 2014 #106

Wow, I didn't realize it was that simple! BillZBubb Dec 2014 #108

This seems to be a non sequitur treestar Dec 2014 #109

YEP. Rex Dec 2014 #115

I don't know about all this animal symbolism. BillZBubb Dec 2014 #107

For me, DU is like meth Horse with no Name Dec 2014 #110

Neither woodchucks nor penguins pick our candidates--it's the walruses and giant squids librechik Dec 2014 #111

Confession is good for the soul. L0oniX Dec 2014 #112

Proud penguin here. hifiguy Dec 2014 #119