General Discussion

merrily

(45,251 posts)

254. Meh. No worries. They'll be offended anyway.

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 10:37 AM

Dec 2014

I don't know that anyone was actually bribed with money, though.

I do know the negotiations weren't televised. (Remember that 2008 campaign promise?) And, once the ACLU moved for the visitors' logs, they moved the negotiations outside the White House. IIRC, it was a nearby diner (which didn't maintain visitors' logs that could be obtained by an FOIA request or a lawsuit over a denied FOIA request).

For your viewing displeasure:

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/02052010/watch3.html

(Moyers did a number of shows on Obamacare before the bill passed, but this one stuck in my mind.)

Another interesting link: http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/19692-obamacare-the-biggest-insurance-scam-in-history

(I was surprised to read at that link that millions had been raised to get the public to buy into Obamacare. Why? It was polling at over 70% approval before they delayed long enough to let the Republicans have at it.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/09/us/politics/e-mails-reveal-extent-of-obamas-deal-with-industry-on-health-care.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

(emails show Obama agreed with pharmaceutical industry to oppose drug reimportation)

http://hardnoxandfriends.com/2013/11/22/who-actually-wrote-the-affordable-care-act/

(Wellpoint executive joined Baucus to write Obamacare bill--and that was before Snowe made it even worse.)

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Harkin: OBAMACARE Should Have Been SINGLE-PAYER But 'WE BLEW IT' [View all] Segami Dec 2014 OP

yep. nt antigop Dec 2014 #1

Yup! Sherman A1 Dec 2014 #2

Did he mention why he didn't get Lieberman to vote YES? JoePhilly Dec 2014 #3

You'll need to wait for Harkin's tell-all book Segami Dec 2014 #6

You are probably right. JoePhilly Dec 2014 #7

I wonder if Obama or Reid had told him you vote yes or no chair if he would have given in? Autumn Dec 2014 #10

See my post #49 ... he was never voting YES. JoePhilly Dec 2014 #50

Lieberman balked because of "liberal enthusiasm." AtomicKitten Dec 2014 #65

Yup ... that is the 3rd item in my post #49. JoePhilly Dec 2014 #71

"...outline...YES>." Volaris Dec 2014 #67

You think Lieberman cares about shame? JoePhilly Dec 2014 #70

I disagree, IMO there was leverage. The chairmanships he was given after campaigning for McCain. Autumn Dec 2014 #82

It was not enough. JoePhilly Dec 2014 #95

"It was not enough". Your opinion. When BO wanted Dennis Kucinich's cooperation GoneFishin Dec 2014 #157

Oh, please. Presidents have bargained with Senators on important votes since forever. merrily Dec 2014 #182

He wants millions as a lobbyist. jeff47 Dec 2014 #239

*massive eye roll* Easy. Have him call me. merrily Dec 2014 #251

So, you have no idea and are just spouting off. (nt) jeff47 Dec 2014 #259

If that's what you need to tell yourself, I can't stop you. merrily Dec 2014 #260

If you had a way to do it, you could say it here. jeff47 Dec 2014 #262

Fine. Prove I couldn't do it if I had access to Lieberman and the same leverage over merrily Dec 2014 #263

What leverage? jeff47 Dec 2014 #265

What is the goal of these exchanges, Jeff? merrily Dec 2014 #266

Well, some would use them as an opportunity to explain how they'd actually get Lieberman's vote. jeff47 Dec 2014 #267

Those would be the asses, Jeff. The notion that you can negotiate with Joe Lieberman in 2009 merrily Dec 2014 #269

Then why are you not only entertaining it, but supporting it? (nt) jeff47 Dec 2014 #270

Zzzzzzzz merrily Dec 2014 #271

I know, actually backing up your assertions can be so tiring. jeff47 Dec 2014 #272

I don't think that post helps you. merrily Dec 2014 #276

As if your lengthy string of evasions was helpful to you? jeff47 Dec 2014 #282

"Threaten aid to Israel and you lose several other senators. " Jesus Malverde Dec 2014 #277

And going all in with a pair of 4s when they're showing a pair of kings isn't gonna win. jeff47 Dec 2014 #281

Nope. Nothing Could Possibly Have Induced Lieberman to Vote For a Public Option AndyTiedye Dec 2014 #161

Yet with a 56 to 43 vote we got mandated health insurance. Autumn Dec 2014 #219

No, the second vote was to 43. jeff47 Dec 2014 #261

I don't buy it , Liberman would have caved if every other Democrat voted for single payer helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #26

He would have had company. geek tragedy Dec 2014 #32

I did forget but helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #43

Joe Lieberman was immune to pressure. geek tragedy Dec 2014 #55

They think "Obama pressure" beats a 7 figure think-tank deal. JoePhilly Dec 2014 #73

Electric Boat helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #108

Electric Boat helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #110

Wrong for four reasons. JoePhilly Dec 2014 #49

I go back to my other point for it to happen helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #51

Can't come up with a way to get Lieberman to vote YES? JoePhilly Dec 2014 #61

Electric Boat helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #113

My challange has caused others to go crazy too ... JoePhilly Dec 2014 #115

You asked me how to pressure Lieberman helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #117

Ahhh ... I see, at least you took a shot ... JoePhilly Dec 2014 #124

I don't buy that for a second helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #129

No, they didn't go crazy. They were only laughing at how silly the alleged challenge is. merrily Dec 2014 #208

you win so many points on your "whining" argument.. 2banon Dec 2014 #167

It is an insult to this President to claim he had zero influence over his own party. sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #235

You are right, but Andy823 Dec 2014 #64

The best answers to my question ... JoePhilly Dec 2014 #69

You you think the voters are sympathetic to a party that can't get the job done with 59 Senators? Doctor_J Dec 2014 #151

You've hit the nail on the head. Democrats, rather than doing what they needed to to get things done smokey nj Dec 2014 #155

Did he mention Ted Kennedy's illness and death? joshcryer Dec 2014 #173

No, it was not 20-30 days, but closer to 3-4 months. Besides, Kennedy's illness was no surprise. merrily Dec 2014 #183

39 days from Franken seating to Kennedy death. joshcryer Dec 2014 #186

LOL! You are not going to count Kennedy's hand picked place holder as a Democrat? merrily Dec 2014 #190

It always depended on Lieberman. joshcryer Dec 2014 #191

Again, Josh, read the thread. merrily Dec 2014 #193

Drop the circularity. joshcryer Dec 2014 #196

It's linear, not circular. Read the thread. merrily Dec 2014 #197

Read post #196. joshcryer Dec 2014 #201

I have. And responses are already on this thread. merrily Dec 2014 #202

No votes for P.O. reconciliation. joshcryer Dec 2014 #226

Lieberman would have voted 'yes' for anything to keep his chairs. All they had to do was sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #177

Lieberman valued his National Security chair a lot. merrily Dec 2014 #184

Exactly! The excuses are ridiculous. In Jan 2009 Dems not only had control of the Senate, Congress sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #233

Your last paragraph, ugh, tblue Dec 2014 #245

Yep. The lack of a strong public option, as promised, was the final straw for a number of Dems merrily Dec 2014 #250

Better query: Why did Lieberberman lose a chair for campaiging for McCain, but lose nothing at all merrily Dec 2014 #179

Kent Conrad, Tom Carper and Bill Nelson come to mind? joshcryer Dec 2014 #194

Replies to all your aged memes are already on this thread. Read it. merrily Dec 2014 #205

What would've made Kent Conrad vote for it? joshcryer Dec 2014 #214

Again, replies to that are already on this thread. merrily Dec 2014 #215

I am the only person who has mentioned Conrad. joshcryer Dec 2014 #220

Of all people, you should know to be careful what you call a lie, Josh. merrily Dec 2014 #221

Yes, "reconciliation" has less votes than flat out vote. joshcryer Dec 2014 #224

convenient talking point a2liberal Dec 2014 #187

What you mean "we", white man? tularetom Dec 2014 #4

Seriously. merrily Dec 2014 #185

No shit. I think we know why the law didn't include liberal policies like a single-payer health care Autumn Dec 2014 #5

See how fast the reTHUGS backed down Segami Dec 2014 #15

I doubt we will get there now. We have mandated health insurance. Autumn Dec 2014 #19

It's a pipe dream now helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #29

And Kasserine Pass was the point in which the U.S. lost the second world war... LanternWaste Dec 2014 #120

Thanks to Obama and Justice Roberts. merrily Dec 2014 #192

The war over single payer was with Joe Lieberman..... and we lost groundloop Dec 2014 #25

+1 zeemike Dec 2014 #59

IF President Obama wanted a public option or single payer dotymed Dec 2014 #94

"Bullied forward and gone to war" a black first-term President trying to get healthcare reform that kelliekat44 Dec 2014 #75

Same here, autumn. n/t truedelphi Dec 2014 #96

Just one more consequence of Democrats not having the balls to fight like Republicans do. world wide wally Dec 2014 #8

+1,000 Scuba Dec 2014 #16

That's the Truth pscot Dec 2014 #34

I disagree. It wasn't about balls. It was about getting what they set out to get. merrily Dec 2014 #203

Not in this case Jack Rabbit Dec 2014 #118

It was not about balls or vaginas or any other body part. See Reply 17 and others on this thread. merrily Dec 2014 #198

I agree bad negotiating tactics. gvstn Dec 2014 #9

But, but, but...... Little Star Dec 2014 #11

"The system is working" nt adirondacker Dec 2014 #12

I've finally discovered what politicians are good at: 20/20 hindsight. Buns_of_Fire Dec 2014 #13

They know damn good and well they are screwing the pooch while they're in the process of doing it. Autumn Dec 2014 #14

You're right. It's a shame that all their introspection and courage doesn't show up Buns_of_Fire Dec 2014 #21

I think that they have it planned that way. No responsibility Autumn Dec 2014 #37

It was planned and it was originally a Republican plan too. A Simple Game Dec 2014 #121

Wyoming conservatives to Heritage Foundation to Billarycare to Romneycare to Obamacare. merrily Dec 2014 #199

They very aggressively excluded advocates of Single Payer from the debate. Marr Dec 2014 #17

Yes. Le Taz Hot Dec 2014 #48

Thank you. Tell the truth and shame the devil, as the saying goes. merrily Dec 2014 #189

Thank you. woo me with science Dec 2014 #236

That's what we tried to tell them, but we are attacked and told we wanted 'ponies' and how sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #18

As usual, sabrina, you strike the nail squarely on the head. hifiguy Dec 2014 #63

Of course, the now thoroughly disgraced John Edwards pointed this out seven years ago RufusTFirefly Dec 2014 #72

+a million! SammyWinstonJack Dec 2014 #116

+100000 woo me with science Dec 2014 #237

because YOU DID want ponies... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #130

There you go, you always come through for me. I was going to go look for some comments sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #136

I am not the one interested in ponies....I want Progress.... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #137

What's your idea of 'progress'? sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #138

The same as Bernie Sanders....who said "We must protect the progress we have made" VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #144

You have that saying backwards. The way you phrasd it means the tblue37 Dec 2014 #164

No I didn't and no it doesn't... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #169

Maybe I misunderstand your position, then. When you said you wanted progress, not ponies, it tblue37 Dec 2014 #230

Yes that is exactly what I am saying.....because the "Perfect" or "ponies" are not likely to happen. VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #247

The line is from Voltaire. tblue37 Dec 2014 #249

Heh... perfect timing and delivery. WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2014 #284

You DLCers are so fucking predictable. Odin2005 Dec 2014 #212

The health pony Obama-Biden promised us during the 2008 campaign? You bet I wanted it. merrily Dec 2014 #195

How were there 60 Senate votes for Single Payer... JaneQPublic Dec 2014 #20

Indeed the PPACA passed without a single vote to spare. n/t PoliticAverse Dec 2014 #27

The final bill passed by reconciliation. merrily Dec 2014 #216

No shit, what is wrong with him, why would he say such an obviously provable wrong thing? NoJusticeNoPeace Dec 2014 #35

he's talking out of his head Cosmocat Dec 2014 #76

That's why they should have taken care of the 60 vote rule as soon as they had the chance. sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #78

But if they got rid of the 60-vote rule ... SomeGuyInEagan Dec 2014 #119

And if it happens now? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #132

That's WHY Dems should have done it. You are MAKING THE POINT. Had they done it, lots of sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #176

Not only did Dems not deal with it, they didn't even make Rs actually work SomeGuyInEagan Dec 2014 #248

It's a great excuse, isn't it? I guess they actually do believe we are all stupid! sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #135

Who is WE? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #170

They did. In March 2010, Obamacare passed by reconciliation because Brown got elected January 2010. merrily Dec 2014 #218

+1 with added congratulations for using "methinks" eom treestar Dec 2014 #79

... JaneQPublic Dec 2014 #111

Senator Harkin is 100% correct. Democrats did have a 60 vote majority in the Senate. Zorra Dec 2014 #158

Except for that whole ELECTIONS business... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #171

exactly--Obama with his huge landslide had a sliver of time librechik Dec 2014 #238

60 except for Joe Lieberman you mean.. annabanana Dec 2014 #240

Wrong on the facts. merrily Dec 2014 #207

Yup. I was correct. Snowe never voted for Obamacare. (I just checked her wiki.) merrily Dec 2014 #217

But she DID vote to move it through the Senate Finance Committee. JaneQPublic Dec 2014 #241

Dems had a majority on that committee. If they allowed her vote to be the merrily Dec 2014 #257

Where were the votes, Senator? Arkana Dec 2014 #22

Boy, I really Delphinus Dec 2014 #23

Brilliant deduction, Holmes! n/t RoccoR5955 Dec 2014 #24

Blew it on purpose. nt ChisolmTrailDem Dec 2014 #28

^ This. nt TBF Dec 2014 #104

Yes. pa28 Dec 2014 #145

wait a minute, Phlem Dec 2014 #30

He's blind in his hindsight. nt geek tragedy Dec 2014 #31

What Congress could he have used to pass it? Orsino Dec 2014 #33

We didn't have "60 votes" for single-payer. We had 60 Senators caucusing with the party. NYC Liberal Dec 2014 #36

Right Cosmocat Dec 2014 #77

+ 1 zillion treestar Dec 2014 #85

and Bernie said single payer had about 10 votes, so which is it? dionysus Dec 2014 #38

Lieberman killed it BeyondGeography Dec 2014 #39

Hell yes it should have been single payer INdemo Dec 2014 #40

duh nt abelenkpe Dec 2014 #41

Harkin, god bless him, is being revisionist as fuck Blue_Tires Dec 2014 #42

And Blanche Lincoln BeyondGeography Dec 2014 #44

End of term hyperbole. joshcryer Dec 2014 #174

Leadership turbinetree Dec 2014 #45

Obam could have ridden the popular wave in 08 to push through his agenda librechik Dec 2014 #46

no he couldn't. Lieberman, Bayh, both Nelsons, and other blue dogs wouldn't go for it. still_one Dec 2014 #127

You need to read this entire thread. The cake was baked before Baucus ever got his merrily Dec 2014 #204

They didn't even allow it to be discussed during the congressional hearings think Dec 2014 #47

This story is bullshit...please consider this point. Stuart G Dec 2014 #52

Yeah, that is the REALITY of it Cosmocat Dec 2014 #80

Cosmocat is correct, that is the Reality of it.... Stuart G Dec 2014 #106

Spot on Cosmocat Dec 2014 #140

The Disease Management Industrail Complex has a vested interest in making sure we get sick Dont call me Shirley Dec 2014 #53

K&R DeSwiss Dec 2014 #54

I never fully understood that, unless he was trying to be glib... Blue_Tires Dec 2014 #58

+1 JimDandy Dec 2014 #83

Mencken was an extreme racist and opponent of representative democracy, an elitist. Bluenorthwest Dec 2014 #231

barring single/universal advocates isn't an oopsie, it shows what the whole thing had a chosen goal MisterP Dec 2014 #56

It is assumed.. kentuck Dec 2014 #57

What do they say about hindsight? n/t savalez Dec 2014 #60

hey Tom, you didn't blow it, you gave us exactly what the insurance companies wanted. spanone Dec 2014 #62

I don't quite agree. Xyzse Dec 2014 #66

Thank you Obama and Rahm lark Dec 2014 #68

Obama could not have and did not do this alone. He would have gone with PO had the Dems kelliekat44 Dec 2014 #81

How about Obama not being up for the fight? lark Dec 2014 #84

He could have "pushed" them? treestar Dec 2014 #86

Not fold like a wet shirt is how. lark Dec 2014 #87

I don't know if we would have gotten Single Payer, but.. mvd Dec 2014 #90

I agree lark Dec 2014 #91

"Started with single payer" treestar Dec 2014 #93

To me it's the same thing mvd Dec 2014 #98

They knew they'd never have the votes treestar Dec 2014 #99

No way mvd Dec 2014 #100

Yup Proud Liberal Dem Dec 2014 #228

1. Gotten with Reid and Lieberman and told them no committee assignments or chairmanships - treestar Dec 2014 #92

I remember it clearly. The silence from the White House was deafening. jhart3333 Dec 2014 #112

lol-- let me get this straight: Marr Dec 2014 #133

You do realize what else the newly elected President was dealing with at the time. Dems failed to kelliekat44 Dec 2014 #88

Dems and the President both folded lark Dec 2014 #89

See a subthread starting w/ my post #3 JoePhilly Dec 2014 #97

Just pretend he was Ned Lamont BeyondGeography Dec 2014 #103

That's definitely part of Lieberman's anger. JoePhilly Dec 2014 #109

It was another BIG missed "chance". SoapBox Dec 2014 #74

Obama dealt away the public option. pa28 Dec 2014 #101

A challange .... You are now President in 2009 ... JoePhilly Dec 2014 #114

LOL! You may as well put that silly, simplistic challenge away. No one is falling for it. merrily Dec 2014 #206

Silly and simple ... but you can't do it. JoePhilly Dec 2014 #225

Dude, you got nothing but embarrassing yourself. Have him call me. I'll take care of it. merrily Dec 2014 #252

Of course I can do it. Just have him call me so we can talk. merrily Dec 2014 #253

It should have been sold as a bigger priority mvd Dec 2014 #125

No Lie Senator irisblue Dec 2014 #102

No the Republican obstructionists blew it. Initech Dec 2014 #105

Of course they can ut oh Dec 2014 #107

Captain obvious has spoken. nt silvershadow Dec 2014 #122

I think he's lying that we had the votes for single-payer. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #123

Bernie Sanders: Single Payer never had a chance (March 2010) still_one Dec 2014 #126

8-10 votes? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #154

schumer can go screw himself. I didn't hear him protest at the time. As for Harkin, he is not still_one Dec 2014 #128

I am sick of hearing what they should have done .. and as mentioned we will YOHABLO Dec 2014 #131

Democrats can try and shift blame all they want. There was a window of opportunity to get it done. liberal_at_heart Dec 2014 #134

The final bill passed the Senate by a 56 to 43 vote. It did not need 60 votes. eomer Dec 2014 #139

They had the votes? Every time I mentioned single payer back then NorthCarolina Dec 2014 #141

Wait for Harkin's book tour Segami Dec 2014 #153

No, you don't feel silly at all now--because you never fell for their story back then. merrily Dec 2014 #256

Do you think the Democratic Party will ever return to it's roots, NorthCarolina Dec 2014 #268

Ya think? Android3.14 Dec 2014 #142

Fine, then repeal it Man from Pickens Dec 2014 #143

Segami Diclotican Dec 2014 #146

same refrain but different day DemandsRedPill Dec 2014 #147

One word. Baucus. JDPriestly Dec 2014 #148

Two words. 'Rotating villains'. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #152

Rotating villains or rotating DU memes. Take your pick. The kabuki could not have been merrily Dec 2014 #210

Baucus fell on his sword. joshcryer Dec 2014 #175

They didn't have the votes because they didn't WANT the votes. merrily Dec 2014 #209

That's the part that put the lie to the whole thing. Marr Dec 2014 #243

It had less votes under reconciliation. joshcryer Dec 2014 #246

Like any of the "minor tweaks" that were made ostensibly in the name of wooing Olympia Snowe. Marr Dec 2014 #273

Mistakes were made. joshcryer Dec 2014 #274

What you said the first time: they did pass pretty much what they wanted. merrily Dec 2014 #255

This message was self-deleted by its author Marr Dec 2014 #242

Baucus was not some rogue agent. Marr Dec 2014 #244

Of course not. Obama praised Baucus for his work on the ACA and rewarded him. merrily Dec 2014 #286

Yeah-- I can't believe anyone could actually buy such an idea. Marr Dec 2014 #287

It was necessary to at least have a national discussion on single payer. Max Baucus quashed that. Enthusiast Dec 2014 #149

Baucus was one of several (willing) scapegoats. Please see Reply 204, among others. merrily Dec 2014 #211

(bribed, paid) Enthusiast Dec 2014 #223

Meh. No worries. They'll be offended anyway. merrily Dec 2014 #254

Wow! Enthusiast Dec 2014 #258

You're welcome. It is but a fraction of what was out there at the time. merrily Dec 2014 #264

I have said it before, that Enthusiast Dec 2014 #280

It was indeed a single payer prevention act, but, oh, so much more. merrily Dec 2014 #283

1. Sign EO lowering the Medicare age to 60 Doctor_J Dec 2014 #150

And this is why Republicans win and Democrats lose eridani Dec 2014 #156

this is a waste of time. republican radio made single payer politically impossible long certainot Dec 2014 #159

DOH !!! n/t humbled_opinion Dec 2014 #160

We "blew it" consistently for all the 60+ years previously bhikkhu Dec 2014 #162

Obama NEVER wanted single payer. He works for the 1%, and they tell him what to do. blkmusclmachine Dec 2014 #163

Perhaps Harkin needs ten years in prison. Festivito Dec 2014 #165

I love Harkin, but I am happy there is babylonsister Dec 2014 #166

So he wait to say this when he's weeks from retirement davidpdx Dec 2014 #168

That's odd Mr Harkin Omnith Dec 2014 #172

When I Bitched and complained about Medicare for all imthevicar Dec 2014 #178

I think the last thing I remember Ted Kennedy saying publicly was "Don't screw it up" loyalsister Dec 2014 #180

Yeah, instead we dicked around for a year with "town halls" that allowed the tricorner hat crowd to Warren DeMontague Dec 2014 #181

+1 Staged bullshit n/t leftstreet Dec 2014 #188

The public option was dead long before the town halls. merrily Dec 2014 #200

The idea that DU knows more about the workings of the Senate than Harkin is laughable. merrily Dec 2014 #213

I'm sitting here, chuckling, thinking the exact same thing. WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2014 #285

Seems to be a case of... 99Forever Dec 2014 #222

Not.helpful (and not true) Proud Liberal Dem Dec 2014 #227

Shh. Don't remind DU activists that a public option was considered an absolute backstop Leopolds Ghost Dec 2014 #229

+1000000 liberal_at_heart Dec 2014 #232

And it worked. merrily Dec 2014 #279

Which is why I can't support Hillary Clinton Leopolds Ghost Dec 2014 #288

No argument here. I have a number of reasons not to support her. merrily Dec 2014 #289

Right on! libodem Dec 2014 #234

�We had the votes in �09. We had a huge majority in the House, we had 60 votes in the Senate," Jesus Malverde Dec 2014 #275

And, we had the Oval Office. merrily Dec 2014 #278