General Discussion

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)

103. there's one huge trouble

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 02:24 PM

Dec 2014

and it gets magnified in places like Nebraska.

In general, progressive ideas are - off the table.

If one lone candidate tries to bring them on the table, then he might as well be from Mars. He's the fool on the hill talking about a round world when everybody KNOWS it is flat.

If the national party brought those ideas on the table. If they were presented daily in the M$M as a viable alternative, a realistic choice, worthy of considering, worthy of trying as policies. Then those ideas would be more likely to resonate with voters, even in Nebraska.

Of course, for a candidate to even PRESENT his ideas to the public, he needs a whole bunch of cash. Those in the top 5% have most of the available cash. Once you take cash from them, it becomes very hard to say "let's have policies that favor the bottom 75% instead of those that favor the top 5%". Once that money stream is denied to you, it becomes very hard to get people to hear you.

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If Democratic candidates ran on progressive ideas on a consistent basis... [View all] Yavin4 Dec 2014 OP

Exactly! Far too many democratic politicians are gutless and try to be more rightward than the RKP5637 Dec 2014 #1

It's not about guts. It's about who's writing their checks. RufusTFirefly Dec 2014 #22

+1!!! We have to change our tactics! We have to focus solely on the root problem instead of Dustlawyer Dec 2014 #28

I totally agree that it's a systemic problem, and that we need publicly funded elections RufusTFirefly Dec 2014 #30

Don't get me wrong, I am not dismissing OWS, I just believe that we need a singleminded purpose Dustlawyer Dec 2014 #37

That's why the First Cause of anyone who wants to call themselves a Liberal, Volaris Dec 2014 #62

Yep, so right about who writes their checks. And, we have citizens united! It's a cruel joke on RKP5637 Dec 2014 #33

Unfortunately, you will never hear this from mainstream sources. Ergo, it isn't true. RufusTFirefly Dec 2014 #36

Much like the good Germans were during WWII who ignored what was going on in their country until RKP5637 Dec 2014 #41

Yes. RufusTFirefly Dec 2014 #43

Yep, the 'boiling frog' syndrome and it's been going on in this country for some time now, just RKP5637 Dec 2014 #50

Chill. We're just 'alarmists' RufusTFirefly Dec 2014 #53

In short, only time will tell. n/t RKP5637 Dec 2014 #55

I totally agree. We have a 2-party system for a reason, actual choice. nt RiverLover Dec 2014 #2

The hard truth Miigwech Dec 2014 #3

Bouzhou, Miigwech. Jackpine Radical Dec 2014 #5

Hey friend Miigwech Dec 2014 #18

"but the elected ones need money, so they lie to us." RiverLover Dec 2014 #19

It is, in fact, not much of a democracy exists today. We go through the motions of a democracy, but RKP5637 Dec 2014 #34

"I think most Americans don't believe that the Dems are any different from the Repubs... liberal_at_heart Dec 2014 #7

Exactly 99Forever Dec 2014 #4

Exactly. Liberals must fight ... ThePhilosopher04 Dec 2014 #6

Bingo!! Scuba Dec 2014 #8

She boxed herself into a place where she managed to be less genuine than McTurtle and TheKentuckian Dec 2014 #9

+1 nt MADem Dec 2014 #71

A very simplistic view joeglow3 Dec 2014 #10

You don't get it ... ThePhilosopher04 Dec 2014 #12

^^^^^That onecaliberal Dec 2014 #26

Politics is not really driven by ideas though YoungDemCA Dec 2014 #139

In the 70s, we had very progressive senators in red states Yavin4 Dec 2014 #13

For every one you name, there are scores who got their asses handed to the joeglow3 Dec 2014 #21

Those states weren't "red" in the seventies. Red states are controlled by the GOP. MADem Dec 2014 #29

yup, just look at Nixon and REagan in California JI7 Dec 2014 #49

And you advocate total surrender to the right Scootaloo Dec 2014 #83

That's the second time, at least, in this thread where you've mischaracterized my MADem Dec 2014 #87

It's not a mischaracterization at all Scootaloo Dec 2014 #90

I'm not saying that at all. Stop putting words in my mouth -- you ALWAYS get it wrong. MADem Dec 2014 #120

You do it in thread after thread AgingAmerican Dec 2014 #97

I do nothing of the sort. If you can't respond to debate with anything besides personal MADem Dec 2014 #116

How far to the right will you go to "Win"? Scootaloo Dec 2014 #78

The true power lies in holding the majority joeglow3 Dec 2014 #93

We have tried this strategy AgingAmerican Dec 2014 #98

Never said it should be a nationwide strategy. I advocated a state by state strategy joeglow3 Dec 2014 #102

The exact same way they've gone in every midterm since the late 1800s NYC Liberal Dec 2014 #106

A congress full of conservatives is a congress full of conservatives Scootaloo Dec 2014 #111

Got us one big fucking step closer to health reform joeglow3 Dec 2014 #113

No, it'll cost us that reform though Scootaloo Dec 2014 #114

In Nebraska, I hold my nose and vote for the Democrat joeglow3 Dec 2014 #121

How's that working out for you? Scootaloo Dec 2014 #124

Wrong state joeglow3 Dec 2014 #125

*headthunk* Holy shit, big derp on my part Scootaloo Dec 2014 #129

there's one huge trouble hfojvt Dec 2014 #103

You seriously think that's a winning strategy? To diss the industry that puts food on MADem Dec 2014 #11

Clean coal is a myth think Dec 2014 #14

From one of the sources on your very list, there.... (uh oh...) MADem Dec 2014 #23

You're citing the American Coal Council as a legitimate source??? Bwahahaha!!!! n/t RufusTFirefly Dec 2014 #24

You're not bothering to read what I wrote, OR even following the thread? Bwahahahahaha!!!!!!! MADem Dec 2014 #31

No embarrassment here. I read the posts RufusTFirefly Dec 2014 #32

You clearly didn't comprehend them too well if you didn't take the obvious point I was making. MADem Dec 2014 #38

You don't understand how search engines (and PR firms) work RufusTFirefly Dec 2014 #40

No, no, no--that's not how it rolls. It's not my job to peck through the shit looking for corn. MADem Dec 2014 #47

Clean coal doesn't exist AgingAmerican Dec 2014 #99

Why don't you try reading a conversation in FULL context, instead of jumping in with a MADem Dec 2014 #109

Clean coal does not exist AgingAmerican Dec 2014 #133

The technology is expensive. MADem Dec 2014 #134

At one point cotton put food on the table. How long did that last? Yavin4 Dec 2014 #15

No one dissed cotton while it was king, did they? MADem Dec 2014 #20

What a opportunist viewpoint you have. Scootaloo Dec 2014 #79

Opportunist my ass. And what a mischaracterization of my views, too. I live in the real world. MADem Dec 2014 #86

Yes, opportunist Scootaloo Dec 2014 #91

There's an opportunist in the conversation, but it isn't me. nt MADem Dec 2014 #110

I'm not the one advocating surrendering to the republicans. Scootaloo Dec 2014 #112

Neither am I--but you persist in characterizing me in that fashion to be rude and disruptive. MADem Dec 2014 #117

Yes, you absolutely are Scootaloo Dec 2014 #122

No one is "telling" you anything--you just can't hold up your side in debate, so instead of arguing MADem Dec 2014 #128

We agree on something Scootaloo Dec 2014 #131

Not sure what the point was linking to your own post, but whatever. MADem Dec 2014 #132

It was supposed to link to the OP for the whole thread. Whoops Scootaloo Dec 2014 #135

Who is saying "liberals can't win?" MADem Dec 2014 #136

You're losing your joust against your own straw man, and that's sad. Scootaloo Dec 2014 #138

You are a short term thinker. Yavin4 Dec 2014 #96

No, I am not, but that sounded a bit like a put-down...I am a practical thinker who thinks that it MADem Dec 2014 #130

I thought Grimes ran on "clean coal"...and lost. nt RiverLover Dec 2014 #16

She ran from that guy that some here call a rightwinger, and lost. MADem Dec 2014 #17

IMO she ran aspirant Dec 2014 #25

she also ran into the arms of Elizabeth Warren and still lost JI7 Dec 2014 #48

Ouch--that's an inconvenient truth, right there.... MADem Dec 2014 #54

The EW that's supporting HRC as of now? aspirant Dec 2014 #64

No, she ran away from Obama, and she was insincere. It had nothing to do with "Bill and Hillary and MADem Dec 2014 #52

" had nothing to do with Bill and Hillary" aspirant Dec 2014 #61

Yeah, right--I'll provide those just as soon as you provide all of your links to back up the MADem Dec 2014 #63

Switcheroo doesn't work aspirant Dec 2014 #65

You jumped in at post 25, and if you want links, you've got to provide yours first. MADem Dec 2014 #70

Is this a joke? aspirant Dec 2014 #75

You probably know the answer to that question, too. MADem Dec 2014 #76

IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO aspirant Dec 2014 #80

You need more help than I or anyone here can give you. MADem Dec 2014 #88

The MAD...em guy aspirant Dec 2014 #89

IMO maybe some of her campaign funding aspirant Dec 2014 #67

Well, come up with that link, why don't you? Did she use that Wall Street money to pay Warren's MADem Dec 2014 #68

Prove your facts or expect laughter aspirant Dec 2014 #73

I've already done that. MADem Dec 2014 #74

I stand tall aspirant Dec 2014 #77

I agree, her ad where she is blasting shit with a shotgun Rex Dec 2014 #123

I wish they'd run John Oliver's ad towards the END of the campaign.... MADem Dec 2014 #127

Dems figure Kentucky = coal.... Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2014 #27

This is the Citizens United era SHRED Dec 2014 #35

That would make us a "four corners" regional party and lock us out of the White House Recursion Dec 2014 #39

Do moderates and conservatives reliably outnumber aspirant Dec 2014 #51

We aren't a mirror image of the Republican party Recursion Dec 2014 #58

Are liberals and progressives the same? aspirant Dec 2014 #69

Good question. It's a term with a lot of baggage Recursion Dec 2014 #72

not all 18-22 year olds want the same thing, if you go by state, voting patterns are not JI7 Dec 2014 #42

All 18-22 year olds want a future Yavin4 Dec 2014 #95

chris christie and rand paul is popular among young people , and what you say JI7 Dec 2014 #108

did any Candidate win California running on Defense Cuts when that was a big part of the state JI7 Dec 2014 #44

There's no need for standards Scootaloo Dec 2014 #81

i don't view politics as a religion, it's why i can still say FDR was a good president even though JI7 Dec 2014 #82

No, you see it as a team sport Scootaloo Dec 2014 #84

so do you think FDR should not be seen as a positive part of the democratic Party ? JI7 Dec 2014 #85

did any candidate win running against Ethanol in Iowa ? JI7 Dec 2014 #45

even Ted Kennedy opposed Wind Farms JI7 Dec 2014 #46

He didn't want to have to see them from his porch, is why. MADem Dec 2014 #57

Not all of them, just the ones near his house (nt) Recursion Dec 2014 #59

The fact is - both Parties are enslaved by Corporations who have the Power truedelphi Dec 2014 #56

It sounds good but we ned to read the reasons for discontent. Jim Beard Dec 2014 #60

Running on progressive ideas would offend ther Capitalist donors. Odin2005 Dec 2014 #66

Lots of folks here seem to confuse the way they wish things would be with how they are stevenleser Dec 2014 #92

Because the Clinton experiment in triangulation has worked out well for democrats? Exultant Democracy Dec 2014 #101

LOL. Only if you confuse buzzwords with arguments and forget several important facts stevenleser Dec 2014 #104

There have only been two good election cycles for democrats since Clinton got into office, Exultant Democracy Dec 2014 #107

I think many people oversimplify Nevernose Dec 2014 #137

They would run on progressive ideas workinclasszero Dec 2014 #94

A few folks here still think running DINO's is a winning strategy! B Calm Dec 2014 #100

It is a winning strategy... for them. Those people are called "Republicans" Scootaloo Dec 2014 #115

Why would someone today in KY who works in the coal industry vote for someone who ran against big still_one Dec 2014 #105

Because big coal jobs are going away due to natural gas and cheap oil Yavin4 Dec 2014 #119

If moderates ran on moderate ideas, we would get back the core group of voters. Rex Dec 2014 #118

I doubt running against coal would have helped Grimes but it would have been interesting to hrmjustin Dec 2014 #126