How far right wing of a candidate do we have to put up with before we can say no more

[DonCoquixote]

91. a bit of goalpost moving

"That's what they said about torture: really necessary. Same problem with both: neither actually works and may well be counter productive."

With all due respect, there is a major difference between voting, which, at least on paper, is the basis of a dempocracy, the sort of thing that we supposedly fought for the right to do, and torture, something ni regime admits to doing, because it is against not just one nation's laws, but against all international law. Attempting to tar people who are demanding that people do what they supposedly fought to get with crimes against humanity is a bit sneaky, like folks who say "Nazi Nazi Nazi" all the time.

"In any case, blaming voters has been done over and over and it hasn't reduced evil or increased turnout. Time to try something besides guaranteed fail. "

Well, with all due respect, we know one thing that has been a failiure: attemtping to sell a sort of republican lite so that the rich people will not vomit tons of weaponized cash against us, and that the ever so coveted "Reagan Democrats" will like us. That has been a failure.

I am with you in terms of making secualr help for people. It is no accident that ACORN was targeted from the egt go, as are Unions, because both were places the Democrats could have offered help. I will especially agree with bad networking, but, to speak about why I think the Blue Dogs need to stop holding the wheel, there are few networkers worse than the conservative Democrats, because they already starting muffling their message before they even leave the gate. Alison grimes best weapon against Mitch was the ACA, as their democrtaioc Governor made it work well, but becayse she, like Mary L, felt she had to distance themselves from you know who in 1600 pennsylvania Avenue, she hamstriung herself, just as Mary L did when she held the Budget hostage for the folks who had already caused suffering for her state.

"The Party has to generate more excitement among voters and, IMO, you do that by how you perform in office, by registering more voters, etc. "

and that is EXACTLY why I belive the Blue Dogs are a part of the problem, they are NOT interested in being judge on how they actually PERFORM. Seriously, who have been the people speaking out against the slew of Voter limits passed? It has not been the Blue Dogs, even though their states have targets that could be lined up like the canned hunts Dick Cheney went on. In florida, even though there were voter hijinks, and even though the margin of vioctory was thin, Charlie Crist conceded in tiem to have a midnight snack, whereas we KNOW that if the vote totals were reversed, the courts woudl still be fighting this.

As far as pratical solutions, we need to form PACS. The only way we can compete with billionaires is to remind them that their billiosn are nothing more than our pennies. We need to use pacs to make the insituions that do confer advanatge, which is a nice way of saying we need Lawyers guns and money, min us the guns, but with extra money. We need to help the Unions, but we need the pacs that are seprate from them because they cannot do their job alone anymore. If nothign else, once we make an idea work, the GOP will try to kill it, and the onyl way for them to stop us from making pacs is to kill their precious baby, Citizens United, and you and I know short of a full blown constituional amendment, that will not happen.