General Discussion

Vattel

(9,289 posts)

16. I have a good idea, but it is off the politcal radar right now.

Tue Dec 9, 2014, 10:20 PM

Dec 2014

Obama gave us an executive order which is the weakest response possible. He or the next president can rescind it at any time. If he or Congress were really serious about reducing the likelihood of future torture and assuring the world that we have changed our ways, we should amend the Torture Act and the War Crimes Act to make practices like waterboarding unambiguously criminal under those criminal statutes. Both of those acts are well-intentioned but they are horrible pieces of legislation. Due to their ambiguity, John Yoo and others in the Bush DOJ were able to argue that waterboarding and other harsh interrogation techniques did not violate them. I don't buy Yoo's arguments, but it would be better to make the statutes unambiguous than to argue subtle points of interpretation with the likes of Yoo. Strong criminal prohibitions would not stop extremists about presidential war powers from arguing that the President is above the law on matters of national security, but they would be a much greater obstacle to torture than an executive order.

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Forgive me if I roll my eyes at your precious outrage about torture. [View all] True Blue Door Dec 2014 OP

K! & R!!! Preach it! nt ChisolmTrailDem Dec 2014 #1

So what should we do? Vattel Dec 2014 #2

As best I can figure, we have to plow under the soil we are growing Demit Dec 2014 #3

I think we should just repeat any metaphors the OP used in a mocking and snarky fashion n/t dogknob Dec 2014 #5

It saves the rolling of eyes at precious outrage. Demit Dec 2014 #15

this reminds me of my brother. he was always the first and the roguevalley Dec 2014 #49

I concur! whathehell Dec 2014 #179

Where can I send your internets? Aerows Dec 2014 #232

My opinion, which I'm not the type to pretend is some kind of divine revelation... True Blue Door Dec 2014 #10

I have a good idea, but it is off the politcal radar right now. Vattel Dec 2014 #16

We can't do that without control of Congress True Blue Door Dec 2014 #21

I love the way easychoice Dec 2014 #65

Obama could have easily done it in 2009. Vattel Dec 2014 #68

No, he couldn't - Presidents can't prosecute people. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #87

+1. It would have been a disaster... YoungDemCA Dec 2014 #88

Forgive me if I roll my eyes at your implication that Obama and Holder operate totally independently merrily Dec 2014 #113

(sigh) Here's the full picture. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #122

Yes, we're familiar with all the rationalizations. merrily Dec 2014 #130

And I'm familiar with all the rationalizations for why your inability to get what you want True Blue Door Dec 2014 #154

Wow, that was a huge load of crap to pull straight out of your ear! Feel better? merrily Dec 2014 #155

If I've misinterpreted your position, feel free to correct me. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #158

You have; I am and it's not worth the candle. Clearly, your OP was not about honest discourse. merrily Dec 2014 #159

Thank you for stating it plainly! Aerows Dec 2014 #138

You're most welcome. My posts a couple of years ago were nothing like they are now. merrily Dec 2014 #142

For what it's worth Aerows Dec 2014 #144

Thanks. No, DUers as a whole aren't stupid, but I sure was clueless. merrily Dec 2014 #145

"You people"? whathehell Dec 2014 #180

"People who pretend the President can order prosecutions" is a bit of a keyboardful. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #182

I'm sure you're brilliance will enable your search for alternatives. whathehell Dec 2014 #187

Damn, who said anything about prosecution? Vattel Dec 2014 #215

Really? You polled Congress at the time about support for such measures? True Blue Door Dec 2014 #216

Opposing such legislation at that time would have been politically crazy for a Democrat, Vattel Dec 2014 #222

So no one even tried to pass it, but you're certain it would have passed? True Blue Door Dec 2014 #223

I am not certain that it would have passed. Vattel Dec 2014 #271

" I'm not the type to pretend is some kind of divine revelation..." Aerows Dec 2014 #234

Ooo, emoji spam. You're a sharp one. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #236

Is that what they are calling emoticons these days? Aerows Dec 2014 #240

The torture victims appreciate your steadfast attention to seeking justice for them. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #258

That was an interesting segue. Aerows Dec 2014 #260

Yes, I quite randomly and bizarrely brought up the subject of the OP True Blue Door Dec 2014 #264

It's rather rich that you bring up Aerows Dec 2014 #276

The people have always sulphurdunn Dec 2014 #246

I have a suggestion! Dustlawyer Dec 2014 #248

Lobby. Repost. Repeat. Orsino Dec 2014 #317

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Dec 2014 #4

Thread win. 99Forever Dec 2014 #6

Seeing everyone other than yourself as evil is not a recipe for human progress. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #7

Neither is seeing everyone other than yourself as stupid Fumesucker Dec 2014 #13

I do have that problem. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #24

Actually the Suprme Court deprived us of that presidency Downtown Hound Dec 2014 #33

well, actually, gore was beaten mercilessly from 1000 rove-controlled radio stations while certainot Dec 2014 #61

Agreed, but Gore also owes his defeat to his not standing up for the people who had their right to Downtown Hound Dec 2014 #292

they already had the mainstream blockheads calling him "sore loserman" certainot Dec 2014 #316

Republicans will continue being treasonous thieves no matter what we say to them. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #74

Actually criticism of Al Gore's campaign is not moot Downtown Hound Dec 2014 #291

yep VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #131

Thank you. whathehell Dec 2014 #181

Amen to that. n/t Aerows Dec 2014 #230

I remain unconvinced that George W. Bush, Dickhead Cheney, the neo-con leadership, Downtown Hound Dec 2014 #32

And I'm unconvinced that most Democrats in Washington fit any of those categories. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #166

What a bunch of crazy bullshit Downtown Hound Dec 2014 #290

Wholeheartedly agree with you and your first replier... MadDAsHell Dec 2014 #312

Things have gotten better in a lot of ways since Obama took office YoungDemCA Dec 2014 #92

This message was self-deleted by its author Earth_First Dec 2014 #8

Woah. Practicality and common sense around here??! Prepare for teh Swarm! Number23 Dec 2014 #9

Agreed, but I guess I just never had any illusions about how far it went. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #14

CIA Torture Tapes Hissyspit Dec 2014 #60

Only one quibble with that information: Calling it the "Obama DOJ." True Blue Door Dec 2014 #80

Let me roll my eyes at the "realist" who even bothers to type such fantasy after any observation TheKentuckian Dec 2014 #94

He had to appoint an Attorney General who would be confirmed by the Senate. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #114

Surely, you did not expect more than a bunch of trumped up rationalizations? merrily Dec 2014 #157

I'm trying to explain how to succeed. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #167

Don't let me interrupt your mansplaining. Please continue. You've been a huge hit so far. merrily Dec 2014 #169

And Bush's psychopathic tendencies were visible as early as the 2000 presidential debates hatrack Dec 2014 #102

Yes. My reaction to him then was visceral. WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2014 #116

That's exactly what I saw. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #124

you are confusing heaven05 Dec 2014 #323

+1 nt steve2470 Dec 2014 #45

Well said. nt msanthrope Dec 2014 #51

The President did not release the report Caretha Dec 2014 #209

Didn't I address this already? Number23 Dec 2014 #274

Vote (D) and it will all go away. L0oniX Dec 2014 #11

All outrages are equal but some are more equal than others Fumesucker Dec 2014 #12

Props for the Rand Paul mention neverforget Dec 2014 #17

speak for yourself. PowerToThePeople Dec 2014 #18

Pretty sure I just did. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #27

i saw a lot of "we" in your op. PowerToThePeople Dec 2014 #31

Should I just say "you" and be perfectly accusatory? True Blue Door Dec 2014 #82

Its hard to be outraged now, as if it was a surprise bhikkhu Dec 2014 #19

Outrage is useful if it galvanizes practical action. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #30

Garner was strangled and suffocated. tblue37 Dec 2014 #79

Yes, you're right. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #83

So, where were you when we were in the streets protesting the WTO, the Iraq war, Zorra Dec 2014 #20

Calling us "commies" and hippie bashing is my guess. ForgoTheConsequence Dec 2014 #28

Everyone and everything you don't like is exactly the same, isn't it? True Blue Door Dec 2014 #63

I'M the one manufacturing disputes? ForgoTheConsequence Dec 2014 #72

My final paragraph asked for practical ways to bring justice. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #126

You really don't know the difference between those protests, do you? True Blue Door Dec 2014 #59

So, why don't you tell us how you really feel about those black folks who are Zorra Dec 2014 #98

Street protests are perfectly tailored to the issue of police violence. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #133

You should have stopped at the end of the first paragraph, it was sensible. Zorra Dec 2014 #135

Your criticism is nebulous. Is that deliberate? True Blue Door Dec 2014 #151

YOU heaven05 Dec 2014 #320

Don't miss the point, MLK had a plan Cosmic Kitten Dec 2014 #299

I didn't miss any point. Zorra Dec 2014 #310

And you, my dear Zorra Aerows Dec 2014 #314

Why would you say " Study history, not Bill O'Reilly" Cosmic Kitten Dec 2014 #322

Not to be smug Aerows Dec 2014 #326

Bottom line is that you're pissed off that no one paid attention to your precious research. SMC22307 Dec 2014 #125

Given that I didn't mention it until someone else challenged me on it True Blue Door Dec 2014 #134

Your nastiness in this reply is totally uncalled for and unproductive. NYC_SKP Dec 2014 #252

I think you have the roles in the exchange reversed. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #266

Excellent piece of writing and thinking. Bravo. LawDeeDah Dec 2014 #22

In the run-up to Operation Shocking and Awful in the fall of 2002, I attended a KingCharlemagne Dec 2014 #23

I respect your contributions and your thoughtful response. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #150

I believe some good points about our heaven05 Dec 2014 #319

Anyone who earned his or her stripes back in the days of Tricky Dick and Agnew has my KingCharlemagne Dec 2014 #324

How about you take your preachy high horse and shove it where the sun don't shine? Downtown Hound Dec 2014 #25

May not mean much in the cosmic scheme of things, but you're one of my heroes, fwiw - nt KingCharlemagne Dec 2014 #36

BTW flvegan Dec 2014 #47

Thank you for summarizing my feelings in words I had trouble bullwinkle428 Dec 2014 #69

Amazingly rare jury result!! Quantess Dec 2014 #156

You're proud to be associated with childish hypocrisy? True Blue Door Dec 2014 #170

Childish hypocrisy? No. Quantess Dec 2014 #173

It does tell me something. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #178

What? I don't mean to insult you, or people with mental illnesses, but... Quantess Dec 2014 #249

Please explain how I was hypocritical... Downtown Hound Dec 2014 #289

In summary, you think your personal feelings are the most important element True Blue Door Dec 2014 #152

Um no, try again. Downtown Hound Dec 2014 #294

Fine, I get it. So what have you actually accomplished? derby378 Dec 2014 #213

You know this might come as a big surprise to you, but... Downtown Hound Dec 2014 #297

Amen! And thank you for your selfless sacrifice for a greater good. RiverLover Dec 2014 #298

You've humbled me derby378 Dec 2014 #341

I was in the streets while Democratic leaders were cheer-leading for war. ForgoTheConsequence Dec 2014 #26

I hear ya, comrade! - nt KingCharlemagne Dec 2014 #38

The majority of Democratic leaders opposed the war. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #153

Yet, for at least 2 years, the Party has been trying to coronate this one. merrily Dec 2014 #192

When you say "the Party," who are you talking about? True Blue Door Dec 2014 #193

I never said they were trying to coronate her in 2008. Reading comprehension is your friend. merrily Dec 2014 #194

Ah, but everyone who is now, was then. And they failed. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #200

I disagree that everyone who is trying to coronate her now was trying so to do then. That is not my merrily Dec 2014 #201

The super-delegates came into line with the Party rank and file. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #218

Again, I don't agree with you about what happened in 2008. merrily Dec 2014 #241

I'm pretty sure Aerows Dec 2014 #277

Listen pal! I've done plenty of research in my mom's basement to disprove your "water is wet" Guy Whitey Corngood Dec 2014 #282

LOL! Aerows Dec 2014 #284

+1 That's why he's getting one liner replies instead of explanations, reasoning, links, etc. merrily Dec 2014 #306

Dem Leaders Opposed the war? How? fredamae Dec 2014 #207

I was just adding up the House and Senate Democratic votes listed on Wikipedia. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #211

What's your evidence for that assertion, that Dems feared for their physical safety? Demit Dec 2014 #226

I stressed the word "apparently." It appeared to me that they feared for their physical safety. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #233

Terrified tiptoeing? Practically gagging? Nonverbal behavior? Demit Dec 2014 #273

My outrage started the moment Reagan/Bush took the office. Dont call me Shirley Dec 2014 #29

Thank. You. byronius Dec 2014 #34

You Know There Is Worse Not In The Report billhicks76 Dec 2014 #35

Undoubtedly there is worse. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #171

Believe It billhicks76 Dec 2014 #281

too funny stupidicus Dec 2014 #37

Righteous Rant. Bookmarked. n/t freshwest Dec 2014 #39

That's a lot of words MFrohike Dec 2014 #40

There are just as many words as I require, neither more nor less. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #174

It could be that MFrohike Dec 2014 #285

We voted for Obama and he ended torture as soon as he got into office. ucrdem Dec 2014 #41

Some here seem to think Obama calls the torturers 'patriots' LawDeeDah Dec 2014 #42

Yeah well... ucrdem Dec 2014 #44

Here's Obama's quotes on the subject for your review: choie Dec 2014 #70

He hasn't to my knowledge issued any pardons. ucrdem Dec 2014 #73

It's not possible Caretha Dec 2014 #212

Gerald Ford pardoned Richard Nixon Art_from_Ark Dec 2014 #311

I'm pretty sure that not every CIA employee was a torturer LawDeeDah Dec 2014 #76

Jaysuz, even when the words come straight from his mouth... WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2014 #84

Jaysuz, some people should give up on pinning Obama with the Debil label. LawDeeDah Dec 2014 #91

The words came straight from his mouth. WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2014 #95

I don't live in a Disneyland world, no. LawDeeDah Dec 2014 #97

It's too late for me to attempt to decipher that word salad. WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2014 #99

Good night then. LawDeeDah Dec 2014 #101

Eight hours probably won't help... WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2014 #107

zzzzzzzzZZZZZzzzzzzzz LawDeeDah Dec 2014 #115

You have bed bugs? WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2014 #118

You cannot read. Period. Obama's term "THOSE folks"---THOSE---refers SPECIFICALLY TO "THOSE FOLKS" WinkyDink Dec 2014 #185

Yep. 'Those' folks is being Very Specific! LawDeeDah Dec 2014 #253

can you say that again, sonny. but a bit louder this time? LawDeeDah Dec 2014 #333

You're ignoring the rest of what you quoted though treestar Dec 2014 #147

Watching them spin that quote is something to behold. WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2014 #89

Now, now, just beg the OP's pardon, look ashamed and move along. merrily Dec 2014 #165

Okay your megamindship, then who was he calling patriots in his "we tortured some folks" speech? TheKentuckian Dec 2014 #196

The people who did work for the CIA and that may have been involved somehow LawDeeDah Dec 2014 #214

I see no indication that he was trying to defend and soothe the cafeteria staff at the CIA TheKentuckian Dec 2014 #339

I know him well enough, and everyone should by now, to know he LawDeeDah Dec 2014 #340

Oh yeah, how time do you spend together? How many deep conversations have you had? When did you last TheKentuckian Dec 2014 #345

+10000000000000 nt steve2470 Dec 2014 #46

Jan. 23, 2009: "Obama orders CIA to stop torturing terror suspects" ucrdem Dec 2014 #53

Of course not steve2470 Dec 2014 #54

Dood!! Some people here think that Obama is Bush-lite! Major Hogwash Dec 2014 #62

Worser than Boosh! LawDeeDah Dec 2014 #77

Not according to Amnesty International, he didn't. merrily Dec 2014 #161

DU rec for pissing off all the right people... SidDithers Dec 2014 #43

+++ LawDeeDah Dec 2014 #57

Too true, too true. Major Hogwash Dec 2014 #81

"The right people" being those who consider torture a repugnant crime? whatchamacallit Dec 2014 #90

No, "The right people" being those who demonize Democrats at every level YoungDemCA Dec 2014 #96

Anyone who condones torture whatchamacallit Dec 2014 #105

Exactly treestar Dec 2014 #148

You should read your own post, if you want to see judgmental. Not to mention the OP. merrily Dec 2014 #168

Outraged when it happened, outraged now. Maedhros Dec 2014 #48

Not that you're implying equivalence or anything, right? True Blue Door Dec 2014 #242

Yeah, Maedros probably is Aerows Dec 2014 #279

I've been boycotting Wal-mart. zappaman Dec 2014 #50

Don't tell me how to feel, now, then or tomorrow. I am pissed off still! lonestarnot Dec 2014 #52

Feelings are a compass, not a map. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #245

My fucking compass. lonestarnot Dec 2014 #307

Who the hell do you think YOU are? choie Dec 2014 #55

Someone who storms on to DU, bashes the left, WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2014 #100

+1 merrily Dec 2014 #106

"You shall know them by their cheer squad". Marr Dec 2014 #141

Isn't that the truth? Oilwellian Dec 2014 #217

I picture them in cubicles - TBF Dec 2014 #268

Thank you, Choie, whathehell Dec 2014 #202

I'm the guy telling it like it is. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #250

Telling it like it is?? choie Dec 2014 #283

i'll add that a lot of college students outraged by torture and guantanamo may want to check certainot Dec 2014 #56

What a pile of rationalizing crap. Hissyspit Dec 2014 #58

Second that! lonestarnot Dec 2014 #64

I third it... choie Dec 2014 #66

They don't care about torture. WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2014 #86

^this Marrah_G Dec 2014 #108

I'm not at all sure it's caring about Obama, either. merrily Dec 2014 #172

You�re moving into a land of both shadow and substance, SomethingFishy Dec 2014 #103

Well, we knew the extent of the torture was bad, but I dare say, not this freakin' bad! Major Hogwash Dec 2014 #67

Lots of Johnny come lately outrage... Historic NY Dec 2014 #71

Are you suggesting that DU did not understand... WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2014 #75

Hell, I was against the US being involved in torture before being against the US hedgehog Dec 2014 #78

I watched the initial reports of Daddy Bush unleashing Desert Storm on TV. stone space Dec 2014 #85

May be the most shit post I've read on DU whatchamacallit Dec 2014 #93

Agreed malletgirl02 Dec 2014 #104

Some old DU'er posted a "for us or against us" screed that was even more absurd. pa28 Dec 2014 #121

I'm surprised you call this a shit post. n/t Aerows Dec 2014 #313

I don't know if it's the worst, but it's up there. merrily Dec 2014 #163

Troll has been here for a year gonna tell us about what to be outraged about...lol!!! U4ikLefty Dec 2014 #109

Now, now, I'm sure s/he lurked for years! (n/t) WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2014 #111

Don't they all "lurk for years"? U4ikLefty Dec 2014 #120

Be sure to read post #59. WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2014 #123

Holy crap...whadda douche!!! U4ikLefty Dec 2014 #128

. Guy Whitey Corngood Dec 2014 #129

Here are some Trustafarians from Moral Mondays. WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2014 #286

Thanks, those pics give me some hope. U4ikLefty Dec 2014 #308

You're welcome. WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2014 #337

So what should my "plans" be? Nevernose Dec 2014 #110

yeah because you did so much more than the rest of us. liberal_at_heart Dec 2014 #112

We tortured some folks and shouldn't get all sanctimonious. Got it. pa28 Dec 2014 #117

Hey, I think I have apologists bingo! I just needed a phony irate kiss up kick down tirade and TheKentuckian Dec 2014 #119

Ugh, what are you blathering about? True Blue Door Dec 2014 #199

No, you kissed ass and rationalized for those with power and authority and spit blame at those who TheKentuckian Dec 2014 #338

curious how you feel about the way you worded your Op considering the responses... AuntPatsy Dec 2014 #127

I'm unclear on what your message is Aerows Dec 2014 #132

Yes, we've established this. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #198

"Corrupt rather than evil"? Aerows Dec 2014 #327

Somebody went Aerows Dec 2014 #136

I think we just have differing moral philosophies. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #197

This may very well be the most self-important tripe I've ever read here. Marr Dec 2014 #137

Phonics Aerows Dec 2014 #140

Agreed. I believe the bar has been reset (nt) CrawlingChaos Dec 2014 #146

Post removed Post removed Dec 2014 #191

You're trying so hard. Marr Dec 2014 #220

Is that a meme? I don't recognize it. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #224

I'm pretty sure Aerows Dec 2014 #231

Do you often just waltz into other people's conversations and randomly insult people? True Blue Door Dec 2014 #235

This isn't a conversation, it's a post on a public message board. Marr Dec 2014 #243

Whether you "buy" the truth or not is your problem. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #256

"Fragile ego" Aerows Dec 2014 #325

I have to assume this person is 14 years old or something. Marr Dec 2014 #237

I know Aerows Dec 2014 #238

lol! Marr Dec 2014 #244

It was hilarious! Aerows Dec 2014 #251

That was the second funniest thread in the history of DU. QC Dec 2014 #269

Don't be coy Aerows Dec 2014 #328

Don't call me an apologist! n/t QC Dec 2014 #334

That one! Aerows Dec 2014 #335

This message was self-deleted by its author Puglover Dec 2014 #210

I can't believe this OP got recommendations. Quantess Dec 2014 #139

It's addressed to anyone who finds value in it. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #177

So, you are helping? Quantess Dec 2014 #183

What exactly do you think history is? True Blue Door Dec 2014 #208

That's deep, dude. (bong rip just now) Quantess Dec 2014 #255

Blaming the victims. Fail. grahamhgreen Dec 2014 #143

Who are you talking about? Who are "the victims" I'm blaming? True Blue Door Dec 2014 #176

If someone commits crimes against us, we are the victims. grahamhgreen Dec 2014 #225

As a checkbox on a police report, sure. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #227

Saying the victims of torture are at fault for torture, is blaming the victim. grahamhgreen Dec 2014 #239

Which would be a meaningful statement if I'd ever done so. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #259

In my view, every American is the victim of CIA torture. grahamhgreen Dec 2014 #263

Of course you didn't get any real answers treestar Dec 2014 #149

Do you know what the "challenge" is? Quantess Dec 2014 #160

LOL! Funniest post I've read this week--and I told another poster yesterday that merrily Dec 2014 #164

Let's not be judgmental. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #175

WTH is the OP to demand "substance"? WinkyDink Dec 2014 #188

To wit, we need moral fiber to have a mass-movement. :p True Blue Door Dec 2014 #195

ANSWERS? How about the OP offer HIS solutions? HUh? Where are THEY? Self-righteous blather. WinkyDink Dec 2014 #186

Well Done, True Blue Door.. Thank you! Cha Dec 2014 #162

Exactly what was so "well-done" about the OP's post? it's verbose, and he thinks it is cleverly WinkyDink Dec 2014 #189

Agreed.. whathehell Dec 2014 #190

Actually, that was one of the smartest posts I have seen here for a while. LawDeeDah Dec 2014 #254

OFGS. Did you note the NON-reaction to MILLIONS marching against the 2003 Illegal Invasion? What WinkyDink Dec 2014 #184

If the poster was born last week, I might be willing to cut him some slack. bullwinkle428 Dec 2014 #205

How about adopting the tactics of Gandhi, martin Luther King or Cindy Sheehan? Kaleva Dec 2014 #265

Agreed rock Dec 2014 #203

"Talk about your plans to obtain justice." RiverLover Dec 2014 #204

As I've said in other comments in the thread True Blue Door Dec 2014 #221

I love Al, so yeah it is intriguing. And I'm impressed you had something for us! RiverLover Dec 2014 #293

What an audacious rant! Feral Child Dec 2014 #206

Blah, blah, blah, you have no ideas. Thanks for playing. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #219

I guess we all can't be practically perfect in every way, like you. And Mary Poppins. Arugula Latte Dec 2014 #228

you really DO think that all of us to the left of Tojo WEREN'T outraged 2002-8, don't you? MisterP Dec 2014 #229

Little irritated by this post Mr. Mustard Dec 2014 #247

This message was self-deleted by its author A-Schwarzenegger Dec 2014 #257

! QC Dec 2014 #262

This message was self-deleted by its author A-Schwarzenegger Dec 2014 #272

OMC Aerows Dec 2014 #278

Oh, look. A really *bad* torture apologism thread, woo me with science Dec 2014 #261

It's weird how many of them Aerows Dec 2014 #280

You have to admit, it's kind of cute and naive.. SomethingFishy Dec 2014 #321

I'd say it is hilarious Aerows Dec 2014 #329

I enjoyed reading the responses.. SomethingFishy Dec 2014 #331

I regret Aerows Dec 2014 #332

People don't want to risk their comfortable lifestyle. Kaleva Dec 2014 #267

i.e., Because Obama Enrique Dec 2014 #270

~~~True Blue Door, I gotta tell ya. You're skilz in replying respectfully to members needs work. NYC_SKP Dec 2014 #275

Thanks for the moment of clarity Cosmic Kitten Dec 2014 #287

Oh. I'm pleased to see you wish to join Aerows Dec 2014 #330

forgive me if I roll my eyes at your precious thread. nt m-lekktor Dec 2014 #288

My anger in directed at those who not only defended torture but,.... Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2014 #295

We had a plan and we executed it, pretty successfully we thought, in 2008. sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #296

We need a better plan Cosmic Kitten Dec 2014 #303

So, if "the key to war crimes prosecution is to first politically isolate highest targets... MrMickeysMom Dec 2014 #300

The Democratic BASE is not a significant deterent Cosmic Kitten Dec 2014 #301

How pissed off are you, compared to me? MrMickeysMom Dec 2014 #302

This is not about emotions Cosmic Kitten Dec 2014 #304

You're right� it is not about emotions... MrMickeysMom Dec 2014 #305

I changed my mind: I love this thread! Quantess Dec 2014 #309

Comedy fuckin' GOLD Quantess Dec 2014 #336

true heaven05 Dec 2014 #315

Strange CullenBohannon Dec 2014 #318

"...they ignore you - because you are deliberately inconsequential." Peace Patriot Dec 2014 #342

This is a steaming pantload. Odin2005 Dec 2014 #343

Read the whole thread sometime, for some good laffs Quantess Dec 2014 #344