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Savannahmann

(3,891 posts)
Wed Dec 10, 2014, 05:09 AM Dec 2014

Why I agree with President Obama that the Bush Co cabal should not be prosecuted. [View all]

I knew the Torture Report just released would be disturbing. I also knew that there would be many calls for vengeance, for justice, and I would probably be part of those calls. I've been thinking long and hard however.

One of the oddities of our nation compared to others is the smooth transition of power from one, to the next. 43 times power has passed from one to another. One would hope that this tradition will continue well pass one hundred times. Yet, there are many nations in which a change of leader results in jail, prosecutions, and persecutions for the previous holders of power. It is almost inevitable with each election. Someone new takes over as President, Prime Minister, or whatever title the job has. The first thing they do is lock up the previous office holders and often their supporters. We've all seen news stories of second and third world countries doing that. We've also seen the corrupt become dictators, knowing that if they lose power they'll end up in prison, or dead. When those Dictators fall they inevitably run to some other nation, usually with all the money they can steal, to a nation with no extradition to hide and live out the rest of their lives.

In the title, I said I agree with President Obama. I do, because I can see the sense of vengeance bouncing back and forth. President Obama sees the Bush Cabal prosecuted. Then the Republicans take over, and in revenge they prosecute President Obama when he leaves office. Then the Democrats take over, and we're right back to prosecuting the party not currently in power. I'm afraid that we would quickly devolve into a third world nation with a political system written in pencil for all intents and purposes.

Does this satisfy my desire for justice? No. I'd love to see those torturing bastards and the ones who gave the orders put on trial. But I know that in just about twenty five months, the ones put on trial could well be those like President Obama. The charges would be that they harmed National Security by releasing the information or some such thing. A process crime, even if they didn't commit a real crime.

We would be outraged, as we were when the Republicans impeached President Clinton. We would wait until our side was in power, and we would get even.

What is important here? First, we must tell the truth about what happened to make sure it never happens again. Second, we must put safeguards in place to make sure it never happens again.

You may remember that I have written about Robert Lady and how he was convicted of Kidnapping and Torture in Italy. The why we won't allow him to be extradited to Italy is pretty obvious. He would have to implicate his superiors, he was only following orders, and while that would not get him out of trouble, it would spread the blame out. Those superiors would present documentation that would implicate others. I think he should be in prison. But I know that if he was, he would point the finger and drag down others.

No, I don't know where this stops. But I don't want to see President Obama and the administration persecuted next. That's what I'm saying. We need to change the way we look at things. We need to change the principle we embraced during the Truman Era that doing bad things for good reasons would be acceptable. That was when we enabled the CIA to engage in covert operations, supposedly with plausible deniability. The idea was we had to do bad things to stop the Communists, which was a good thing in our minds.

We've got to stop that, that principle that has become core in our Government. Sometimes Presidents and people have to do bad things for good reasons. It argues that the ends justify the means.

I will be more than satisfied, I'd be happy if we eliminated that mistaken ideal from Government service. We could, we should, pass a law that from this date forward, no more will we tolerate illegal actions in the name of National Security. Everything from before that point is forgiven. But from here on, no more.

No more.

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Yes, The dilemma for us is to establish strongly that we are a moral nation and that we will JDPriestly Dec 2014 #1
WHAT??? F that noise! Roland99 Dec 2014 #2
If you're willing to risk it, fine with me. Savannahmann Dec 2014 #6
Oh, Obama's hands aren't clean, that's for sure Roland99 Dec 2014 #12
+1 Scuba Dec 2014 #14
OK, so how do you do that with the current "understandings"? Savannahmann Dec 2014 #17
The 'understanding' I had from Obama came from his insisting he is a devout Christian with hugely Bluenorthwest Dec 2014 #20
And in my lifetime and my kids' lifetimes, that will never happen Roland99 Dec 2014 #41
That simple malaise Dec 2014 #22
Those that hold the gold. Roland99 Dec 2014 #40
I agree with you malaise Dec 2014 #42
The gravity of the crimes they committed LuvNewcastle Dec 2014 #3
+1 Scuba Dec 2014 #15
Thank you for putting it into words, LuvNewcastle. Octafish Dec 2014 #25
''the smooth transition of power from one, to the next Ichingcarpenter Dec 2014 #29
Thank you for stating it so clearly & succinctly. CrispyQ Dec 2014 #30
Thank you. n/t Judi Lynn Dec 2014 #66
Is this hypocritical since other leaders get tried for crimes as well? mazzarro Dec 2014 #4
By your logic you would be against Nixon's impeachment too? n/t mazzarro Dec 2014 #5
Prosecution of government officials happens in accordance with laws in Western European democracies. redgreenandblue Dec 2014 #7
I disagree so vehemently that I think that refusal to prosecute should be considered co conspiracy TheKentuckian Dec 2014 #8
Sorry, I don't see the US as that "beacon of justice" anymore, and I think there should be...... dmosh42 Dec 2014 #10
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." 99Forever Dec 2014 #9
+1 Scuba Dec 2014 #13
+2 Vinca Dec 2014 #16
unrec PowerToThePeople Dec 2014 #11
We've already tried your method. Our reward was the Bush Administration JHB Dec 2014 #18
Reprehensible and absurdly ammoral thinking. You are calling for 100% impunity of action by any Bluenorthwest Dec 2014 #19
The UN wants some of the CIA and US government officials prosecuted over this. liberal_at_heart Dec 2014 #21
It's never gonna stop. When the next republican goat fucker gets in. He'll make Jr. look Guy Whitey Corngood Dec 2014 #23
Has any president finished office totally clean? FLPanhandle Dec 2014 #24
Seriously???? HERVEPA Dec 2014 #26
Bullshit. Hissyspit Dec 2014 #27
+ googolplex (n/t) derby378 Dec 2014 #37
This reminds me of all the talking heads during the 2000 contested election Hissyspit Dec 2014 #28
No tanks in the streets, just the NSA in every house, on every cell. CrispyQ Dec 2014 #31
Whats that about no tanks in the streets? Erose999 Dec 2014 #46
Duh. CrispyQ Dec 2014 #47
Armored personal carriers & armored trucks are not tanks. EX500rider Dec 2014 #60
I don't agree with you or the President (nt) bigwillq Dec 2014 #32
Maybe a little vengeance bouncing would wake up the average American who doesn't bother to vote, CrispyQ Dec 2014 #33
No. The 'original sin' here was the pardon of Nixon by Ford. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #34
Like Ferguson: No consequences => Blowback tblue Dec 2014 #35
"No more" - ah, how quaint derby378 Dec 2014 #36
You are forgetting or ignoring that the U.S. is a signatory to the KingCharlemagne Dec 2014 #38
How do you propose to enforce this? Savannahmann Dec 2014 #48
Your 'this' is one hell of an unclear pronoun reference. To what exactly KingCharlemagne Dec 2014 #49
You're wasting your breath LordGlenconner Dec 2014 #62
Very shallow. earthside Dec 2014 #39
We can't hold elected officials accountable for breaking the most egregious of laws, Maedhros Dec 2014 #43
The idea of accepting the dirty tricks and unethical behavior began in Italy Savannahmann Dec 2014 #51
Yes, Clinton should have been held accountable for bombing an aspirin factory. Maedhros Dec 2014 #59
Truth and reconciliation always the best route frazzled Dec 2014 #44
The "peaceful change of power" is just for show. The real power is the MIC. These abuses continued Erose999 Dec 2014 #45
Disagree in strongest possible terms. Law isn't a tool of revenge. It is a tool of justice. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2014 #50
Ok, but here's a question Savannahmann Dec 2014 #52
Then cooperate with a UN war crime tribunal. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2014 #57
That would be the ICC Savannahmann Dec 2014 #58
This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Dec 2014 #53
Ok, so how do we prosecute? Savannahmann Dec 2014 #56
Prosecuting torturers would be like prosecuting murderous cops. stone space Dec 2014 #54
As much as I hope george war bush rots in hell, I tend to agree. Hoyt Dec 2014 #55
I think the scoundrels should have been taken to task for their misdeeds tiredtoo Dec 2014 #61
I strongly disagree rock Dec 2014 #63
I was the first 'rec' on this OP. NanceGreggs Dec 2014 #64
But has Obama actually made such a statement? ucrdem Dec 2014 #65
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