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Savannahmann

(3,891 posts)
6. If you're willing to risk it, fine with me.
Wed Dec 10, 2014, 07:35 AM
Dec 2014

However, don't say that President Obama has done nothing.

For example. The Fifth Amendment prohibits depriving anyone of life or liberty without due process of law. Yet, President Obama has ordered the assassinations of people, including American Citizens, without any judicial review. If instead of a Republican winning in 2016, a more leftist won, wouldn't the urge to bring people to justice for that crime be enough? Wouldn't the Republicans do it just to make a point and get revenge?

However, that aside. Obviously you don't get it. Corruption is the usual catch all in the aforementioned second and third world nations. Lock the guy up, and his supporters, and then try them in showy trials with hand picked jurors.

Violations of Executive Privilege, categorize it as Corruption, and try the person. Misuse of the Recess Appointment. You do know that the court has ruled against President Obama on the Executive Privilege thing right and the Recess Appointments right? You had heard that I presume.

So there are three "Corruption" grounds for persecution right there. Do you think that the people will rush out into the streets to defend President Obama if he was charged with corruption? A small percentage would, certainly. But most would figure that everyone in Washington is Corrupt, and the trial will sort it out. Almost certainly there are other things that can be blown out of proportion and would enough people object to everyone being held accountable? Could we argue that the Bush prosecution was valid but the Obama prosecution was a witch hunt without sounding like hypocrites?

I don't want to see our nation fall into that trap. We have to begin by changing the way we do things. Under the Truman Administration, we enabled the CIA to start with the dirty tricks to further our interests. The idea was that we would use bad things to try and get good results. That is the foundation of overthrowing Governments in the past. The idea of doing bad things led to the installation of the Shah of Iran, and the various Haitian dictators through the latter half of the twentieth century.

Each President is briefed on these and told that this is the only way to get things done. So each one continues the trend started by the one before. Oh President Obama may end the Torture, but we still have people detained in black sites. He could have closed Guantanamo Bay easily. When one lawyer files a motion to have the detainee released, all Obama would have to do is file a response that the Government can not present a sufficient case to justify the detention, and it is the Government's position that the detainment may be illegal. The Judge rules that we have to let them go, Congress can do nothing but sputter and scream. The Judge ruled, and that is that. No one else can speak for the United States except the Attorney General before the Courts, so case is over, they're all released by court order. We haven't done that, because we don't want to be blamed for letting bad guys who were held illegally go. Doing bad things, because it serves a good purpose.

Why has the Obama Administration prevented the extradition of Robert Lady who was convicted, not accused, convicted of kidnapping and torture in an Italian Court? There is a Interpol warrant out for the man, why haven't we turned him over? Couldn't the Republicans or the notional Liberals in the next administration use that as proof that President Obama was protecting the guilty?

Before we can hold people accountable, we have to change that underlying rule that guides us. We have to say no more. We can't just decide that we're going to prosecute Bush but give Obama a pass, because if we do, the next administration will prosecute Obama, and the one after that will prosecute that one in revenge. Then we end up with a Dictator who refuses to hold elections because enemies hope to exploit the elections. National Security and all that.

I don't want that future here. Because then I couldn't support the Democratic Party. I couldn't support any party, because the election would not give the nation a chance to work towards goals, it would instead give a new group the authority to punish those who came before.

Think about it. First, level the playing field, then tell the truth about what happened, and then prevent it from ever happening again.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Yes, The dilemma for us is to establish strongly that we are a moral nation and that we will JDPriestly Dec 2014 #1
WHAT??? F that noise! Roland99 Dec 2014 #2
If you're willing to risk it, fine with me. Savannahmann Dec 2014 #6
Oh, Obama's hands aren't clean, that's for sure Roland99 Dec 2014 #12
+1 Scuba Dec 2014 #14
OK, so how do you do that with the current "understandings"? Savannahmann Dec 2014 #17
The 'understanding' I had from Obama came from his insisting he is a devout Christian with hugely Bluenorthwest Dec 2014 #20
And in my lifetime and my kids' lifetimes, that will never happen Roland99 Dec 2014 #41
That simple malaise Dec 2014 #22
Those that hold the gold. Roland99 Dec 2014 #40
I agree with you malaise Dec 2014 #42
The gravity of the crimes they committed LuvNewcastle Dec 2014 #3
+1 Scuba Dec 2014 #15
Thank you for putting it into words, LuvNewcastle. Octafish Dec 2014 #25
''the smooth transition of power from one, to the next Ichingcarpenter Dec 2014 #29
Thank you for stating it so clearly & succinctly. CrispyQ Dec 2014 #30
Thank you. n/t Judi Lynn Dec 2014 #66
Is this hypocritical since other leaders get tried for crimes as well? mazzarro Dec 2014 #4
By your logic you would be against Nixon's impeachment too? n/t mazzarro Dec 2014 #5
Prosecution of government officials happens in accordance with laws in Western European democracies. redgreenandblue Dec 2014 #7
I disagree so vehemently that I think that refusal to prosecute should be considered co conspiracy TheKentuckian Dec 2014 #8
Sorry, I don't see the US as that "beacon of justice" anymore, and I think there should be...... dmosh42 Dec 2014 #10
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." 99Forever Dec 2014 #9
+1 Scuba Dec 2014 #13
+2 Vinca Dec 2014 #16
unrec PowerToThePeople Dec 2014 #11
We've already tried your method. Our reward was the Bush Administration JHB Dec 2014 #18
Reprehensible and absurdly ammoral thinking. You are calling for 100% impunity of action by any Bluenorthwest Dec 2014 #19
The UN wants some of the CIA and US government officials prosecuted over this. liberal_at_heart Dec 2014 #21
It's never gonna stop. When the next republican goat fucker gets in. He'll make Jr. look Guy Whitey Corngood Dec 2014 #23
Has any president finished office totally clean? FLPanhandle Dec 2014 #24
Seriously???? HERVEPA Dec 2014 #26
Bullshit. Hissyspit Dec 2014 #27
+ googolplex (n/t) derby378 Dec 2014 #37
This reminds me of all the talking heads during the 2000 contested election Hissyspit Dec 2014 #28
No tanks in the streets, just the NSA in every house, on every cell. CrispyQ Dec 2014 #31
Whats that about no tanks in the streets? Erose999 Dec 2014 #46
Duh. CrispyQ Dec 2014 #47
Armored personal carriers & armored trucks are not tanks. EX500rider Dec 2014 #60
I don't agree with you or the President (nt) bigwillq Dec 2014 #32
Maybe a little vengeance bouncing would wake up the average American who doesn't bother to vote, CrispyQ Dec 2014 #33
No. The 'original sin' here was the pardon of Nixon by Ford. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #34
Like Ferguson: No consequences => Blowback tblue Dec 2014 #35
"No more" - ah, how quaint derby378 Dec 2014 #36
You are forgetting or ignoring that the U.S. is a signatory to the KingCharlemagne Dec 2014 #38
How do you propose to enforce this? Savannahmann Dec 2014 #48
Your 'this' is one hell of an unclear pronoun reference. To what exactly KingCharlemagne Dec 2014 #49
You're wasting your breath LordGlenconner Dec 2014 #62
Very shallow. earthside Dec 2014 #39
We can't hold elected officials accountable for breaking the most egregious of laws, Maedhros Dec 2014 #43
The idea of accepting the dirty tricks and unethical behavior began in Italy Savannahmann Dec 2014 #51
Yes, Clinton should have been held accountable for bombing an aspirin factory. Maedhros Dec 2014 #59
Truth and reconciliation always the best route frazzled Dec 2014 #44
The "peaceful change of power" is just for show. The real power is the MIC. These abuses continued Erose999 Dec 2014 #45
Disagree in strongest possible terms. Law isn't a tool of revenge. It is a tool of justice. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2014 #50
Ok, but here's a question Savannahmann Dec 2014 #52
Then cooperate with a UN war crime tribunal. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2014 #57
That would be the ICC Savannahmann Dec 2014 #58
This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Dec 2014 #53
Ok, so how do we prosecute? Savannahmann Dec 2014 #56
Prosecuting torturers would be like prosecuting murderous cops. stone space Dec 2014 #54
As much as I hope george war bush rots in hell, I tend to agree. Hoyt Dec 2014 #55
I think the scoundrels should have been taken to task for their misdeeds tiredtoo Dec 2014 #61
I strongly disagree rock Dec 2014 #63
I was the first 'rec' on this OP. NanceGreggs Dec 2014 #64
But has Obama actually made such a statement? ucrdem Dec 2014 #65
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