General Discussion

bigtree

(94,701 posts)

95. I find the concept of a kept president almost treasonous behavior, if true

Fri Dec 12, 2014, 12:28 PM

Dec 2014

I don't think this president can excuse his own initiatives perpetuating torture practices through loopholes and interpretations of what constitutes torture outside of his executive order banning some practices- renditions, off-site detentions and interrogations in Afghanistan and other torture lenient countries, on vessels in international waters, and the like - by declaring the CIA is participating in objectionable or illegal acts without consent or through some sort of coercion.

If he has knowledge of these, he has an obligation to act. Portraying him as some sort of weakling isn't much of an excuse. If he is complicit - through coercion or intimidation, or any other persuasion - he's complicit, plain and simple, and needs to be held accountable by the full force of our laws and legislature. He either upholds our constitution and laws through the exercise of his office or he's risking removal.

That said, I don't believe that line that he 'fears' the CIA or military. He's a full partner in their actions; often taking a clear lead in objectionable policies.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

110 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Does the President fear the CIA? [View all] kentuck Dec 2014 OP

Of course he does. As we all should. No one controls or supervises that outfit. Tatiana Dec 2014 #1

You think the CIA was ultimately responsible for JFK's assassination? nt Cali_Democrat Dec 2014 #2

no doubt in my mind Bobby too larkrake Dec 2014 #4

Sandy Serrano MinM Dec 2014 #109

Ultimately? I don't know for sure. Tatiana Dec 2014 #7

exactly! well said....n/t wildbilln864 Dec 2014 #106

+1 LiberalLoner Dec 2014 #34

+1 2naSalit Dec 2014 #96

No. But he fears the backlash if he tries to hold the thugs accountable for their crimes. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2014 #3

Every Democratic president after Truman has been scared hifiguy Dec 2014 #5

So yeah, there's that... and RFK too. mountain grammy Dec 2014 #63

Not refuting that idea at all, but I'm curious as to what you base it on.. whathehell Dec 2014 #78

there is this new field of history called Deep Politics. librechik Dec 2014 #88

I'll check it out. n/t whathehell Dec 2014 #92

If i were him, i certainly would. Presidents come & go, the cia is here to stay. spanone Dec 2014 #6

yes nt grasswire Dec 2014 #8

If they don't have shit on you, they can make it up and sound convincing. 6000eliot Dec 2014 #9

No, he doesn't fear them. He doesn't fear the CIA or NSA and he doesn't fear the military. stevenleser Dec 2014 #10

Do you truly believe that, Steven?? kentuck Dec 2014 #13

100% I do, and very familiar to your second question. nt stevenleser Dec 2014 #15

So then he must be OK with the CIA lying to Congress, eh? Scuba Dec 2014 #66

And he must also be OK with the CIA spying on Congress, too. - nt KingCharlemagne Dec 2014 #69

Yep, that too. Scuba Dec 2014 #70

When the story broke about the CIA spying on Feinstein's select committee, Charlie Pierce KingCharlemagne Dec 2014 #71

Neither Brooklynite nor Lesser has replied. Scuba Dec 2014 #72

I edited my post to delete my specific call-out, but yeah, the silence is deafening. They KingCharlemagne Dec 2014 #73

And there's rainbow colored unicorns and cotton candy clouds... Dont call me Shirley Dec 2014 #77

I can't help but believe that the CTs make it that much harder to engage in actual reform. Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #101

I doubt BHO's in PoppyBush's inner power circle. What president is? blm Dec 2014 #11

Bill Clinton n/t librechik Dec 2014 #89

Wonderful to see many DU ers Wellstone ruled Dec 2014 #12

NSA spied on Sen. Frank Church (D-ID) in 1976. Octafish Dec 2014 #14

Frank Church was one of the great liberals. He was also one of the group of Senators who were jwirr Dec 2014 #102

Jimmy Hoffa and the Church Committee MinM Dec 2014 #110

TOS: "Don't go overboard with the crazy talk." brooklynite Dec 2014 #16

Well, you are a big help. kentuck Dec 2014 #17

All you have to do is provide evidence, and I'll stop being naive brooklynite Dec 2014 #18

You will need to take some responsibility for educating yourself. kentuck Dec 2014 #21

See he met these folks! SO that should mean you can't talk about it anymore. Rex Dec 2014 #27

... SammyWinstonJack Dec 2014 #35

I'M not saying you can't say anything... brooklynite Dec 2014 #57

Google Octafish's exqusitely researched and documented posts hifiguy Dec 2014 #22

Or, another JFK conspiracy page brooklynite Dec 2014 #23

You wrote you haven't read anything to change your mind. Octafish Dec 2014 #79

Thank you Octafish. Funny how some people's reading list can be missing large pieces of truth. n/t librechik Dec 2014 #91

You are most welcome, librechik! Here's something from Nixon to know... Octafish Dec 2014 #103

I have read your material..and I retain my position brooklynite Dec 2014 #98

You must be mixed up. I didn't call you naive. Octafish Dec 2014 #100

You may want to read Bugliosi's Reclaiming History: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy zappaman Dec 2014 #97

I remember in college I knew a girl whose family truebluegreen Dec 2014 #54

Answer: the kind of evidence that would convince me... brooklynite Dec 2014 #58

He's either afraid, or he's OK with them lying to Congress. You apparently believe it's the latter. Scuba Dec 2014 #67

Do you believe in atoms and molecules? Those are invisible, too. librechik Dec 2014 #93

I DID read them...and it didn't change my mind brooklynite Dec 2014 #99

that handfull... wildbilln864 Dec 2014 #107

... merrily Dec 2014 #86

Yes! And I don't blame him! We all know the theories. mfcorey1 Dec 2014 #19

The President fears another 9-11 on his watch Algernon Moncrieff Dec 2014 #20

Yes, yes and yes. fadedrose Dec 2014 #24

I'd say Yes. mylye2222 Dec 2014 #25

Doubtful Lurks Often Dec 2014 #26

Sometimes I think the "unpleasant decisions" may cause them... kentuck Dec 2014 #29

Or they recognize reality isn't as simple as a discussion board wants it to be Lurks Often Dec 2014 #31

Bad choices brought about by bad choices? kentuck Dec 2014 #33

Or bad choices and worse choices forced upon them by others Lurks Often Dec 2014 #38

I wouldn't call it fear, more like worry that they have way too much Rex Dec 2014 #28

I think he does, probably justifiably so. nt intheozone Dec 2014 #30

My Housemate thinks Obama feas Assassination daredtowork Dec 2014 #32

Along with the CIA, he has another fear fadedrose Dec 2014 #44

He also wants to keep them alive. nt. daredtowork Dec 2014 #46

I don't think bu$h Sr. "quivered in fear" of the CIA Art_from_Ark Dec 2014 #47

Just because he was the head... daredtowork Dec 2014 #52

My husband has thought since day one marlakay Dec 2014 #59

The CIA needs to be dissolved. alarimer Dec 2014 #36

It has been for 60 years. hifiguy Dec 2014 #50

+ a zillion truebluegreen Dec 2014 #55

I agree. It is rotten to the core, has always been, but probably too powerful to dismantle. northoftheborder Dec 2014 #62

+ another Scuba Dec 2014 #68

This would absolve both Bushes and Reagan, of course. Dreamer Tatum Dec 2014 #37

It would absolve all of them. And, if true, we may as pack it in and take up knitting. merrily Dec 2014 #82

Obviously, the CIA has him under their thumb. 99Forever Dec 2014 #39

Do you think if he was being threatened and came out and said so he would be ignored? Autumn Dec 2014 #40

Then why do they get away with so much illegal activity? Rex Dec 2014 #43

Because no President bothers to control them. When a President who is a Democrat Autumn Dec 2014 #49

Yeah that is a good point. Rex Dec 2014 #51

Which kinda brings us back to the original quesiton: truebluegreen Dec 2014 #56

Also, Obama was a member of the elite Senate club... kentuck Dec 2014 #61

do you think that... wildbilln864 Dec 2014 #108

I doubt it Derek V Dec 2014 #41

No, I don't think our President is a coward. n/t zappaman Dec 2014 #42

Fear of something or someone need not make one a 'coward'. Fear can be KingCharlemagne Dec 2014 #80

I say no (nt) bigwillq Dec 2014 #45

not at all JI7 Dec 2014 #48

I'm sure he is madokie Dec 2014 #53

I would if I were he. But if you listen to a lot of DUers, BHO approves of torture and probably ... Hekate Dec 2014 #60

I saw DUers say he said some of the torturers are patriots and I saw DUers say Amnesty merrily Dec 2014 #84

Well, he has a family... Tom Ripley Dec 2014 #64

Hell, we should all fear the CIA and should demand it's demise. mountain grammy Dec 2014 #65

Yes and no. H2O Man Dec 2014 #74

I have always assumed that to be the case. nt tblue37 Dec 2014 #75

I have no doubt. CIA is another beyond control criminal organization. Dont call me Shirley Dec 2014 #76

I doubt it. merrily Dec 2014 #81

You have to be really dumb or really naive RedCappedBandit Dec 2014 #83

Personally my speculation lately is that retribution would be in the form of a mushroom cloud hootinholler Dec 2014 #85

Absolutely. librechik Dec 2014 #87

He has no fear of sending others to war. grahamhgreen Dec 2014 #90

I think he is given 3 choices. a) send troops. or b) send MORE troops. librechik Dec 2014 #94

I find the concept of a kept president almost treasonous behavior, if true bigtree Dec 2014 #95

It's worse: he's in The Bubble Nevernose Dec 2014 #104

very likely. n/t wildbilln864 Dec 2014 #105