General Discussion

PatrickforO

(15,488 posts)

133. The original sin of the Obama Administration...

Fri Dec 19, 2014, 07:42 PM

Dec 2014

I remember the discussions on boards like this back in 08 and 09. Then, the talking point was that if the Dems did that, then when Repubs were in power they would not hesitate. Also, it was pointed out that such a move would polarize politics in DC and would guarantee the Repubs would never cooperate with the administration at all.

These arguments were full of holes then, and are full of holes now. First of all, the Republicans didn't hesitate to impeach Clinton, and they have not hesitated to block most of Obama's nominations for cabinet posts, and have not cooperated with anything the Dems have tried to do. Republicans who decided not to cooperate with anything Obama wanted on his very inauguration night are to my mind guilty of sedition and should have been summarily removed from office with replacements appointed by their states' governors.

Now, well...just too much malfeasance to speak of here.

But, yes, TRY these war criminals, and while we're at it, why not try the Wall St. hucksters who got us into the recession as well. I hate that these people are still running around free when they caused so much suffering, and for the war criminals, so much death of innocent people.

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Greenwald: CHENEY SHOULD BE IN PRISON, Not On 'Meet The Press' [View all] Segami Dec 2014 OP

Since Glenn is such a fantastic lawyer, I think he should file a federal citizen's complaint msanthrope Dec 2014 #1

Sounds like you are the one who should give that a try. JEB Dec 2014 #2

Not to mention the fact that Greenwald is now a Journalist, no longer practicing law, sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #8

But Glenn has legal experience with torture victims....when the Nazi group he was representing msanthrope Dec 2014 #10

Oh jeez Hissyspit Dec 2014 #147

So he's wrong about Cheney being a war criminal who belongs in the dock at the sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #5

He's Glenn Greenwald, so he has to be wrong. Iggo Dec 2014 #7

I know. Torturers are given a pass when it comes to journalists saying sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #12

No--GG is right. Cheney belongs in jail. I think GG could put him there, as his prior legal msanthrope Dec 2014 #13

Greenwaqld IS helping to put him there! He is doing HIS job as a journalist sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #21

You are appropriately named n/t whatchamacallit Dec 2014 #118

Misanthrope, not msanthrope. I've always thought the misspelling hilarious (and revealing) nt riderinthestorm Dec 2014 #134

Why don't you volunteer your talents to help Greenwald? Octafish Dec 2014 #14

I don't work with Neo Nazi civil lawsuit defenders. msanthrope Dec 2014 #17

"Neo Nazi civil lawsuit defenders"... ReRe Dec 2014 #59

He was the civil attorney for the National Alliance and Matt Hale. He may call himself msanthrope Dec 2014 #69

In your view, Defense Attorneys commit crimes by defending unpopular clients? sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #80

Um...the Nazi IP case wasn't a 6th amendment case. 1) It was an IP case. msanthrope Dec 2014 #85

So there is no right to a CIVIL DEFENSE if you are unpopular? Where is this sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #91

oh lordy....look, if GG wants to voluntarily defend the money interests of Nazi's, and you want to msanthrope Dec 2014 #95

So you were just making stuff up. I knew that, you have done it before, but sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #97

Check out my posts #115 and #117. Also, I think you will find this interesting. Luminous Animal Dec 2014 #120

Thank I will check out your posts. I did ask if the poster felt the same way sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #128

Here you go (and the earliest association I can find between Greenwald and Hale) Luminous Animal Dec 2014 #117

Stop introducing facts here! sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #129

If your personal injury caseload isn't too heavy, you should give it a shot. DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2014 #16

I don't do PI. I do criminal defense. Unlike GG, I've never defended a torturer, and then claimed msanthrope Dec 2014 #18

Greenwald did not 'defend a torturer' which you have been told many times here. Why are you sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #22

So Greenwald was lying when he wrote about his pro bono work for The National Alliance? msanthrope Dec 2014 #25

You must hate the Civil Liberties Union then? Greenwald was a CL attorney sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #47

Kindly tell us the civil liberty that was protected in the Nazi trademark case? nt msanthrope Dec 2014 #50

Kindly tell US when an 'accused' is not entitled to a defense? sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #52

You do know there's a difference between an 'accused' in a criminal trial and a 'defendant' in a msanthrope Dec 2014 #60

Kindly explain to us when an accused in ANY case, Civil or Criminal, is not entitled to sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #62

Well, I can't make you read the Constitution, sabrina. But you tell me where it says in there that msanthrope Dec 2014 #64

And I can't make you explain why any accused has no right to a defense even though sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #76

John Adams was a criminal defense attorney, as am I. GG chose to defend the money interests of msanthrope Dec 2014 #79

Wait, so now you're saying that SOME clients are not entitled to a CIVIL DEFENSE? sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #81

As I noted below, you seem to be conflating civil and criminal procedure. That is unfortunate, msanthrope Dec 2014 #83

I don't blame you for trying to avoid answering a direct and simple question sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #87

You know, you've been making that accusation for quite a while. It is time to back it up... Luminous Animal Dec 2014 #115

And no response to your well researched facts. Smear campaigns are no supposed to sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #142

She also had trouble addressing the facts presented in this Greenwald bashing thread a few days ago. Luminous Animal Dec 2014 #146

Hey...some of us have jobs and kids....if I take a break for a couple of hours msanthrope Dec 2014 #150

Todd Reardon is the appellate attorney. Greenwald was the original litigator, and in fact msanthrope Dec 2014 #148

You still haven't presented any evidence that Greenwald was the attorney on the copyright infringement lawsuit. Luminous Animal Dec 2014 #152

Look LA....I get that you are still upset with me over the last time you demanded msanthrope Dec 2014 #159

You never upset me. You amuse me. I hope all your opponents are stupid. Luminous Animal Dec 2014 #161

Okay....I thank you for proving to us all that GG helped Matt Hale's white supremacist msanthrope Dec 2014 #162

Okay. I apologize. Cough it up. Luminous Animal Dec 2014 #177

Why don't you just provide your evidence instead of trying to avoid sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #165

Results... Major Nikon Dec 2014 #171

Thank you...I appreciate it. nt msanthrope Dec 2014 #189

And none of that is relevant to your attempt to smear an attorney for sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #164

They will say anything choie Dec 2014 #89

I know. But to even try to smear an attorney for doing his job sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #96

Agreed choie Dec 2014 #111

Indeed Your Question Was Never Answered Joe Worker Dec 2014 #130

Thank you, it isn't the first time this particular smear has been introduced by sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #132

now, now.... grasswire Dec 2014 #57

I'm a world class actress starring in an exciting sequel to a popular Autumn Dec 2014 #116

Meh Bobbie Jo Dec 2014 #124

passive-aggressive nonsense. Autumn Dec 2014 #131

Yes, and? nt Bobbie Jo Dec 2014 #137

And. n/t Autumn Dec 2014 #140

Some Greenwald haters are clearly not familiar with the Streisand Effect Electric Monk Dec 2014 #145

This person you're defending is Marr Dec 2014 #169

What a load. Bobbie Jo Dec 2014 #174

Deny the obvious all you like. Marr Dec 2014 #176

Don't care. Bobbie Jo Dec 2014 #179

That is the most despicable thing about these false allegations, Marr. Greenwald has addressed sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #180

I'd apply your premise to any lawyer who believes they are good LanternWaste Dec 2014 #90

Indeed. Any lawyer could do this. I will not. nt msanthrope Dec 2014 #93

So you don't support our system of justice? You would not do what Greenwald sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #98

Obama Covered Up For Cheney billhicks76 Dec 2014 #112

Yes, it appears the way the system works is that Republicans commit the crimes sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #167

Those Democrats Get Rewarded billhicks76 Dec 2014 #172

It would be a better world JEB Dec 2014 #3

"crickets" from the Glenn Greenwald haters and Obama supporters. truebluegreen Dec 2014 #4

No 'hater' here, but what are you looking for? Posts with 'Ditto' as the only cogent reply? randome Dec 2014 #6

Absolutely....he should be, if we lived in a just and right world. GG's had experience msanthrope Dec 2014 #11

So long as there are people who will try to defend the reasons why he is not in prison sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #15

No need to 'defend' anyone. Political reality takes that decision out of our hands. randome Dec 2014 #26

Well put. nt msanthrope Dec 2014 #31

What 'political reality' are you talking about? We DO have laws don't we? sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #51

I call it the audacity of certainty. He is certain that he knows what the political reality is rhett o rick Dec 2014 #68

I agree, it's interesting though, because they oppose all the people and sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #99

I am 'claiming' that Obama is not a monster. He is not out to destroy our way of life. randome Dec 2014 #113

We have laws in this country. If someone isn't up to allowing justice to take its sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #123

Great post, sabrina 1 Thespian2 Dec 2014 #43

Thank you, I think that is what will happen eventually, as America declines sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #106

Absolutely not--Cheney should be in jail. It's just that some of recall the time GG msanthrope Dec 2014 #19

I just want to note how gross it is for a lawyer to use that particular attack Marr Dec 2014 #32

Really? We aren't talking about criminal defense, where a lawyer is called on by the Constitution msanthrope Dec 2014 #35

No, YOU are condemning all Civil Liberties attorneys who have defended sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #54

GG didn't defend any liberties. Otherwise, you would be able to state what he defended. nt msanthrope Dec 2014 #58

Greenwald defended a client. Please tell us why defending a client sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #63

He chose to defend the money interest of Nazis. He gets to live with the criticism. msanthrope Dec 2014 #65

Again, you seem to have a problem naming the civil liberty GG defended in behalf of the Nazis in msanthrope Dec 2014 #67

You've played this game before and it didn't work. I'm asking YOU under what sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #71

I've answered all your questions--you won't answer one of mine? What civil liberty was GG defending msanthrope Dec 2014 #74

The right to a defense!! You seriously don't get that?? sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #77

Are you saying GG was a court appointed lawyer? You seem to be conflating criminal and civil msanthrope Dec 2014 #82

So he did nothing wrong, in fact he had the courage to uphold the Constitutional Rights sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #84

Oh--I think it's very wrong to defend the money interests of Nazis. For example, I think msanthrope Dec 2014 #86

Iow, you do not believe in the work of the ACLU or any other Civil Liberties sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #135

I won't climb in the mud with you on this, sorry-- but since I'm back for a post, I might Marr Dec 2014 #88

Obviously self-hating and a Nazi lover. Probably abuses all those rescue dogs, too. deurbano Dec 2014 #151

that took my breath away grasswire Dec 2014 #153

It is despicable, isn't it? I know that Greenwald's Right Wing enemies, and he has sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #103

It is. Marr Dec 2014 #110

Yes, and no matter how often this vile smear has been debunked on this site sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #139

Cheney should be in jail and I support Obama. Sorry to disappoint your "crickets" great white snark Dec 2014 #23

What I am reading here is that any Defense Attorney who does his/her job sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #24

How about "Anyone who defends murderers should not talk publicly about murderers." ? randome Dec 2014 #27

Wait! Did you really say that with a straight face? Let's see, you are a defense attorney sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #45

Conservatives hate defense attorneys because defense attorneys rhett o rick Dec 2014 #70

Conservatives hate us until they need to stay out of jail. Then they love us. nt msanthrope Dec 2014 #75

So, have you kept any undesirables out of jail? You are attacking a defense attorney sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #126

Um...Greenwald has never been a criminal defense attorney. He's a litigator. nt msanthrope Dec 2014 #149

I asked about YOUR clients. You are attacking a lawyer for defending sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #166

I represent the liberty interests of the dregs of humanity. I 've never stooped to working on Wall msanthrope Dec 2014 #168

You mean you try to defend the accused and keep them out of jail? sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #170

I put that too stridently, obviously. randome Dec 2014 #121

Are you saying that only the indigent bad guys (that would be those who have sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #127

They're wrapping themselves up in pretzels neverforget Dec 2014 #138

Yes, and it's shameful imo, that any democrat would try to push this unconstitutional sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #143

So since you are an Obama supporter you support his policy toward torturers? truebluegreen Dec 2014 #125

Obama Pelosi and Holder Joe Worker Dec 2014 #141

Not really. They came to this thread...to bash Greenwald instead of Cheney Doctor_J Dec 2014 #158

Oddities, to be sure. nt truebluegreen Dec 2014 #160

Ditto... WillyT Dec 2014 #9

Greenwald is of course correct, and his detractors will of course criticize him and not Cheney Bluenorthwest Dec 2014 #20

Of course GG is correct. He's also, at the same time, a hypocrite. He had no problem being the msanthrope Dec 2014 #29

You seem to have missed my point. People who have sat by while or taken part in political criticism Bluenorthwest Dec 2014 #122

Yikes! (On that thread.) Hadn't seen it before. deurbano Dec 2014 #40

I remember that thread very well. It was a disgusting thread sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #61

Yes, I do remember that smear campaign revelation. I was following Greenwald on Salon back then. deurbano Dec 2014 #102

Very good post, thank you. I am glad your son got to meet him as I think sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #104

I think this is the first time I've said/written this, War Horse Dec 2014 #28

That's what would happen in a country with "liberty and justice for all." polichick Dec 2014 #30

That's a goal, not a reality. And I say that as an officer of the court. nt msanthrope Dec 2014 #33

Looks like it's not even a goal for our "leaders." polichick Dec 2014 #34

I think it is. But I think reality--and the limits of practicality--intrude. I think blaming msanthrope Dec 2014 #42

Actions speak louder than words. polichick Dec 2014 #44

True--which is why the Executive Order on Torture was deafening. Which is why the Executive Order msanthrope Dec 2014 #48

And yet, "looking forward" does not uphold the law with regard to Cheney & Co. polichick Dec 2014 #53

Political reality will always trump the law. nt msanthrope Dec 2014 #66

We're either a "nation of laws" or we're not - if we're not, politicians should stfu... polichick Dec 2014 #72

No more and no less than bumper-stickers will always trump actual wisdom. LanternWaste Dec 2014 #94

Only for as long as there are enablers of the criminals, and/or messenger attackers. sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #101

Political reality will always trump the law. What a disgusting statement. DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2014 #155

One Party Rule jalan48 Dec 2014 #36

"Resolution" music video (torture) johnnyreb Dec 2014 #37

Figure out how to get Cheney put in jail for his transgressions against America ladjf Dec 2014 #38

I've been disappointed since inauguration day that Cheney wasn't handcuffed to his wheelchair and tclambert Dec 2014 #41

Jeez, I'd forgotten that. He showed up in a wheelchair so he wouldn't have to stand & show respect. Demit Dec 2014 #56

He needed the wheelchair. He still had the DC Press Corp shoved so far up his ass he couldn't walk. msanthrope Dec 2014 #92

cute Demit Dec 2014 #105

The power lies with the Deep State and they like Cheney. Presidents do what they can rhett o rick Dec 2014 #73

Here is the beef polynomial Dec 2014 #46

don't forget the Bushes and their Carlyle Group. nt grasswire Dec 2014 #55

Off to Greatest Threads with You! Derek V Dec 2014 #49

If those that have the power and MORAL OBLIGATION... 99Forever Dec 2014 #78

If almost anyone else had said this, no argument would have erupted LittleBlue Dec 2014 #100

+ 1000 nt riderinthestorm Dec 2014 #144

You're wrong, anyone who said what Greenwald said would have elicited the same sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #163

100% true. and he had no remorse whatsoever...doubled down...would do it again. spanone Dec 2014 #107

My prediction is Cheney will serve time in prison around the time that Putin or cstanleytech Dec 2014 #108

Kick! BeanMusical Dec 2014 #109

DC is deeply corrupted. They're not going to prosecute their own. Ain't gonna happen! blkmusclmachine Dec 2014 #114

The war criminal of a Dick and the entire Bush Senior Administration malaise Dec 2014 #119

The original sin of the Obama Administration... PatrickforO Dec 2014 #133

yep, but you can likely find a GG hater who'll attack him and his prior cases stupidicus Dec 2014 #136

"'What I did was absolutely right,'" Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2014 #154

an unmarked grave is more like it d_b Dec 2014 #156

But greenwald is gay and has boxes in his garage Doctor_J Dec 2014 #157

I hope Cheney reads DU. He will see this OP on the FP. sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #173

One day a mad urologist is going to see that cancer and remove him, just out of reflex. n/t jtuck004 Dec 2014 #175

It makes obama complicit, does it not? grahamhgreen Dec 2014 #178

I would agree with Greenwald if he would stop treating every fucking subject True Blue Door Dec 2014 #181

Whose is responsible for prosecuting Cheney? Luminous Animal Dec 2014 #182

Eric Holder. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #183

Who is Eric Holder's boss. The DOJ is and executive branch department. Luminous Animal Dec 2014 #184

As far as prosecutions are concerned, he doesn't have a boss. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #186

I have never once claimed that the President prosecutes people. Either discuss what I am actually Luminous Animal Dec 2014 #187

Huge K&R to this thread, to Greenwald, woo me with science Dec 2014 #185

Hey, Woo. And thank you for for doing all that you do. You've racked up an impressive amount Luminous Animal Dec 2014 #188