General Discussion

branford

(4,462 posts)

84. I believe that you missed my point.

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 12:45 AM

Dec 2014

First, I support universal healthcare, although it needn't necessarily be single payer. You need not convince me that universal coverage easily outweighs the benefits of our current system.

However, no system is perfect or free. If you intend to seek change, you need to understand and acknowledge the pros and cons of each system.

Simply, most Americans have employer provided healthcare and are pleased with the coverage. Those who have coverage tend to have quick and ready availability to costly procedures and drugs, including extensive end of life care. You or I might believe that their sentiments are misplaced or just wrong, that they are selfish, or that we can do better, but that is the situation that exists and must be dealt with. Many Americans are also culturally highly adverse to additional or raised taxes and fees that would be necessary for universal care, while our European and Canadian friends take these expenses for granted. The USA is not the Netherlands, and Americans are not the Dutch.

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Wow. I'm being hammered by my Southern friends about Vermont's health care decision. [View all] Atman Dec 2014 OP

just point to where it is being used belzabubba333 Dec 2014 #1

Right-wingers have that covered. Aristus Dec 2014 #15

and to that i say it works there it can work here belzabubba333 Dec 2014 #16

I say that, too. Aristus Dec 2014 #18

yea same here belzabubba333 Dec 2014 #27

It also works in Canada, our NA neighbor. In large part due to to Tommy Douglas, social democrat appalachiablue Dec 2014 #28

Few European countries do single payer, particularly on a national level Recursion Dec 2014 #31

our military is Europe? Skittles Dec 2014 #62

Yeah, I tell them that, too. Aristus Dec 2014 #68

You're not referring to Tricare are you? madville Dec 2014 #91

South Korea rpannier Dec 2014 #92

Single payer? Not all that many places, really. Recursion Dec 2014 #30

Dont know the details of why it didnt work in Vermont, but it wont work anywhere as long NoJusticeNoPeace Dec 2014 #2

This is what it would have taken in Vermont for it to work in payroll taxes , just like Canada helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #23

At that cost SickOfTheOnePct Dec 2014 #33

No kidding , no one did helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #35

Is it really that much out of pocket in the end? Paulie Dec 2014 #73

What evidence is there that employers will actually pass any savings branford Dec 2014 #82

And laundry_queen Dec 2014 #56

and... handmade34 Dec 2014 #64

How many thousands do most people pay each year in health care costs? alarimer Dec 2014 #67

For family coverage with a decent plan, well over $1000 per month, up to $1500 goldent Dec 2014 #90

New York could pay for single payer by eliminating the millions of road signs that are plaguing our adirondacker Dec 2014 #3

People moor in Ct. to escape the taxes and mooring fees Warpy Dec 2014 #8

Any state can do it if the people want it helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #36

Exactly, and they would SAVE money in the long run. adirondacker Dec 2014 #37

The thing is you can't tax them so highly on other things helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #39

It boils down to increasing progressive taxes and reducing regressive ones. Upstate NY had a wicked adirondacker Dec 2014 #42

My property tax went up 14% and my governor just allowed CL&P a rate increase of 26% in 2015 helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #43

The entire country is infested with incestous, fraudulant, wasteful and abusive industries and WE adirondacker Dec 2014 #45

Oh no, I live in CT helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #48

We have Nationl Grid (London Multinational) raping us in NY. Last years rates shot up adirondacker Dec 2014 #50

It's not just income taxes. branford Dec 2014 #40

Oh I know but they grew up being taxed like that so to them it seems normal. helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #41

We definitely agree. branford Dec 2014 #47

And to your point here helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #44

US has the highest corprorate tax rates in the world. joeglow3 Dec 2014 #69

Its failure in Vermont outweighs its success in the rest of the world? LittleBlue Dec 2014 #4

This message was self-deleted by its author steve2470 Dec 2014 #5

lack of compassion is the key... steve2470 Dec 2014 #6

"Take your government hands off my Medicare!" GoCubsGo Dec 2014 #7

Yep. A single-payer system that only covers the elderly and disabled. dawg Dec 2014 #9

I hear what you are saying, but Medicare is really not a pure single player anymore. Hoyt Dec 2014 #10

It's hard to tell a person who makes $35,000 gross in Vermont your payroll tax helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #34

For-profit hospitals are a big problem. Maedhros Dec 2014 #11

I remember when hospitals were non profit and better. This neoliberal privitization of EVERYTHING appalachiablue Dec 2014 #29

Single payer works very well all over the world. Quantess Dec 2014 #12

Most of them live in Florida, so, uh...yeah. Atman Dec 2014 #14

It is not okay to stereotype like you just did. Quantess Dec 2014 #17

I'm from Florida. Atman Dec 2014 #19

Crying shame what's happened to beautiful Florida. Reaganism and GOP governance. appalachiablue Dec 2014 #32

I don't think Florida is unique to that sort of change. I've seen it in several states I've occupied adirondacker Dec 2014 #38

The left dismisses 20+ years of RW propaganda on Fox and hate radio. It's anal with many. appalachiablue Dec 2014 #75

No, it's fairly rare worldwide Recursion Dec 2014 #59

Learn something new every day! Quantess Dec 2014 #61

And that's a messaging problem we have Recursion Dec 2014 #63

If any state could prove sadoldgirl Dec 2014 #13

I agree -- controlling drug prices is key. subterranean Dec 2014 #55

It takes a larger pool of people to make it work affordably. Vinca Dec 2014 #20

No one said it couldn't work , the math works helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #21

Single payer can realistically only work on a national level, or.... JaneyVee Dec 2014 #22

It would still have to be funded by a higher tax rate helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #24

It was up to Vermonters if they wanted the tax increase helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #25

It is completely insane, the move would appear to reduce systematic cost by half based TheKentuckian Dec 2014 #26

We are now paying 17% or our GDP for health care, and people are bitching about 12%?? eridani Dec 2014 #46

even in Vermont handmade34 Dec 2014 #65

Over 6% of that 17% is already paid by government in Medicare, bornskeptic Dec 2014 #77

The 6% in Medicare is NOT an addon. Moveover-- eridani Dec 2014 #79

Congratulations, you raise some of the issues that make universal care problematic to many. branford Dec 2014 #81

Americans mostly do NOT have excellent health care--they don't have health care at all-- eridani Dec 2014 #83

I believe that you missed my point. branford Dec 2014 #84

Since they are rarely seriously sick, they don't have a clue about their coverage eridani Dec 2014 #86

Remind them their red state heroes can't make their bridges, roads and schools work.... Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2014 #49

well if they want to make an example of Vermont CreekDog Dec 2014 #51

Get new friends! n/t hrmjustin Dec 2014 #52

That's what I was thinking. Jamastiene Dec 2014 #58

My sister lived in NYC for six years where our brother was. A guy friend of a friend appalachiablue Dec 2014 #71

your southern friends are a bunch of idiots. nt Cali_Democrat Dec 2014 #53

Yea, right, elleng Dec 2014 #54

You sure picked some dumbasses for friends, Jamastiene Dec 2014 #57

you have some very stupid friends Skittles Dec 2014 #60

so they like the system we have now ?! "pay til you go bankrupt then lose your house and die" ? GreatGazoo Dec 2014 #66

What's with the veiled South bashing? Hosnon Dec 2014 #70

It's not veiled at all. I'm from Florida, as I have previously pointed out. Atman Dec 2014 #72

Being from and visiting Florida does not make you someone who is from Hosnon Dec 2014 #89

And you clearly missed my point. Atman Dec 2014 #93

I didn't suggest you couldn't. But Florida is not in the South. Hosnon Dec 2014 #94

What I thought. But FL is changing. It was part of the Confederacy like Texas which I didn't appalachiablue Dec 2014 #74

That is so true. Jamastiene Dec 2014 #78

Sorry to hear about those awful people who you were around, and since gone. appalachiablue Dec 2014 #87

Their can't-do spirit is what makes this country great BeyondGeography Dec 2014 #76

It didn't work because it wasn't single payer, not because it was Major Nikon Dec 2014 #80

Truth be told, I don't think single payer would work all that well here either. Zavulon Dec 2014 #85

The VA was managed just fine back in the 90s. Jamastiene Dec 2014 #88

Interesting. Fawke Em Dec 2014 #95