General Discussion

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)

118. You can look up the Su-25's capabilities yourself.

Tue Dec 23, 2014, 09:41 PM

Dec 2014

It does NOT have an air to air radar OR the ability to carry or launch radar guided missiles with the range, power, and point of impact to cause the kind of damage this flight suffered. The Su-25 is a ground attack airplane with very primitive avionics by modern standards. It is just about the LAST combat airplane you'd send to shoot down another plane.

It can ONLY carry the AA-2 or AA-8 missiles, which are short range IR seekers.

The claim that an SU-25 was responsible for this not only inconsistent with the evidence of the damage suffered by the plane, but it's not credible on its face. If one were sending a plane to shoot down a military transport, one would simply not send an Su-25. The Ukrainian Air Force has 5 regiment of SU-27 and MiG-29's. THOSE are planes you'd send to do this kind of job.

Seriously.... this story is absolute hogwash. The "serious investigation" ends once someone laughably claimed a freakin' SU-25 did this.

If I am proven to be wrong, I will personally apologize to you in public on the forums.

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MH17 was the, "Wrong plane," says Ukrainian fighter pilot after shootdown. [View all] another_liberal Dec 2014 OP

The free and independent Russian press is right on top of things. hack89 Dec 2014 #1

I wasn't posting this for you . . . another_liberal Dec 2014 #9

I guess we are supposed to believe you upaloopa Dec 2014 #51

We do agree on something Duckhunter935 Dec 2014 #54

And hope you have a great new year upaloopa Dec 2014 #79

Thanks, you too Duckhunter935 Dec 2014 #83

Thanks upaloopa Dec 2014 #84

It's all over the world press. Only the Corporate Media has stopped reporting on that sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #98

It also suggests a completely implausible explanation for the shootdown NuclearDem Dec 2014 #101

the rational view - Russia didn't ask for this & Putin has high approval in his country WillYourVoteBCounted Dec 2014 #163

And the free and independent American press is snoozing right through it. MattSh Dec 2014 #90

That's why I go to European news sites to get my news on Russia. nt hack89 Dec 2014 #93

The difference is.. RT is Putin's Propaganda Outlet and US Media is GOPropaganda. And, most of us Cha Dec 2014 #105

Yup - TBF Dec 2014 #108

4 "investigating" Countries Agreed Not to Disclose Key Details in Downing of MH17 WillYourVoteBCounted Dec 2014 #161

MH17 - 4 Countries Agreed Not to Disclose Key Details in Downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 WillYourVoteBCounted Dec 2014 #164

Here we go again. hobbit709 Dec 2014 #2

How many different explanations is this now? I lost count. Next thing we'll know Putin Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #5

When the alibi changes every 5 minutes, somebody's lying. hobbit709 Dec 2014 #6

"Consciousness of guilt," I think the term is. "Muddying the waters," also comes to mind. Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #7

Putin will need to wait until OJ is finished finding the real hackers for North Korea Trekologer Dec 2014 #15

The truth matters . . . another_liberal Dec 2014 #10

A source that's been discredited more than Shrub needs an open minded approach? hobbit709 Dec 2014 #19

what source has been discredited? reorg Dec 2014 #26

Post removed Post removed Dec 2014 #23

Must not confuse people with facts YA know newfie11 Dec 2014 #27

"BUK missile don't shoot machine gun fire." Duckhunter935 Dec 2014 #28

I have no previous incrantion Boreal Dec 2014 #30

Duckhunter refers to his Air Defense job in the Military. GGJohn Dec 2014 #33

correct, thank you Duckhunter935 Dec 2014 #35

duckhunter Duckhunter935 Dec 2014 #34

Maybe you might want to think about apologizing to Duckhunter935? GGJohn Dec 2014 #39

He or she can PM me but can't reply Duckhunter935 Dec 2014 #55

Didn't see that. GGJohn Dec 2014 #56

I would not either Duckhunter935 Dec 2014 #60

I don't know much about BUK warheads... MattSh Dec 2014 #92

WOW NuclearDem Dec 2014 #32

not to mention calling many fellow DU members Duckhunter935 Dec 2014 #36

Russians are a 'race' now? nt Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #81

What we need to keep an open mind about are fruit loops snooper2 Dec 2014 #46

Peeps, too. OilemFirchen Dec 2014 #69

But it was reported to an official communist party organ. Igel Dec 2014 #38

It's slang... OilemFirchen Dec 2014 #71

"I'm for the truth no matter who speaks it" WillYourVoteBCounted Dec 2014 #162

"A witness, who chose to remain anonymous, told Komsomolskaya Pravda (KP) daily" Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #3

This is not about President Putin . . . another_liberal Dec 2014 #11

What's the Russian word for Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #13

I imagine . . . another_liberal Dec 2014 #14

Probably the same but the Russian word for shit is "Dermo" hobbit709 Dec 2014 #18

Same "news" outlet that faked up a satellite photo of the shooting down... Archae Dec 2014 #4

I have never heard of that . . . another_liberal Dec 2014 #12

Soitenly. Tommy_Carcetti Dec 2014 #16

"Channel One News" is the source, or so it would appear . . . another_liberal Dec 2014 #21

MSNBC and Fox are not state-run. Archae Dec 2014 #75

That is debatable . . . another_liberal Dec 2014 #96

No it is not Duckhunter935 Dec 2014 #150

You are incorrect. That wasn't RT. Karmadillo Dec 2014 #57

LOL. FSogol Dec 2014 #8

There are also conservative "media reports" and "studies" that show climate change is a hoax. pampango Dec 2014 #17

So? another_liberal Dec 2014 #22

My point? "That is the way the game is played..RT story is not a surprise." "Some people tell lies." pampango Dec 2014 #41

I think it is something which needs to be investigated . . . another_liberal Dec 2014 #97

Please do tell how a ground attack aircraft NuclearDem Dec 2014 #99

I'll leave all that to a team of unbiased, neutral international experts to explore . . . another_liberal Dec 2014 #102

They already did, and found it was brought down by a surface to air missile. NuclearDem Dec 2014 #104

Malaysian press charges Ukraine government shot down MH 17 Karmadillo Dec 2014 #110

This is why Robert Parry isn't a defense expert. NuclearDem Dec 2014 #111

Sez you. I'd like to see the evidence the US is hiding before Karmadillo Dec 2014 #119

I'll take the conclusion of defense experts around the workd NuclearDem Dec 2014 #121

On what are those conclusions based? The satellite evidence the US Karmadillo Dec 2014 #122

Knowledge of how surface to air and air to air missiles work, and photographs of the wreckage. NuclearDem Dec 2014 #123

And yet there are those who would disagree with you. Karmadillo Dec 2014 #125

First WSWS, now Global Research. NuclearDem Dec 2014 #131

I'd cite oligarchy media, but they tend not to print Karmadillo Dec 2014 #144

"Chances are the rebels locked onto MH-17 while trying to lock onto the Su-25 and fired." Adsos Letter Dec 2014 #145

So you admit it reorg Dec 2014 #147

facts just do not matter to you, do they Duckhunter935 Dec 2014 #151

facts that matter h4364r Dec 2014 #156

... NuclearDem Dec 2014 #157

Welcome to DU gopiscrap Dec 2014 #158

Welcome to DU... zappaman Dec 2014 #160

Oh FFS... SidDithers Dec 2014 #20

Media Boreal Dec 2014 #24

Do you think the rest of the world gets their US news from here? NCTraveler Dec 2014 #25

Terrible reporting. blackspade Dec 2014 #29

So, an anonymous source that hasn't been vetted or verified NuclearDem Dec 2014 #31

"provided by an eye-witness" jberryhill Dec 2014 #37

The Earth IS flat. randome Dec 2014 #40

the "anonymous person on the internet" - that would be you reorg Dec 2014 #45

I am not advancing a supposed "eyewitness report" jberryhill Dec 2014 #47

None of what you said changes these facts: NuclearDem Dec 2014 #49

are you an eyewitness? reorg Dec 2014 #52

It's frankly irrelevant which kind of Su-25 was used NuclearDem Dec 2014 #58

amazing, posted links Duckhunter935 Dec 2014 #61

But I mean, really... NuclearDem Dec 2014 #64

"I read it on the internets" Duckhunter935 Dec 2014 #66

not what it says at the link reorg Dec 2014 #67

10,000 meters unloaded. NuclearDem Dec 2014 #72

Those darn facts again Duckhunter935 Dec 2014 #74

so once again Duckhunter935 Dec 2014 #73

so what kind of SU25 can fly loaded at 33k Duckhunter935 Dec 2014 #59

How dare you introduce facts and stats to disprove a comment. GGJohn Dec 2014 #63

I am curious what the answer is Duckhunter935 Dec 2014 #65

can you read? reorg Dec 2014 #70

Can you also read Duckhunter935 Dec 2014 #76

Okay, a smattering of logical thinking might also be helpful reorg Dec 2014 #86

Here, read up before you keep going: NuclearDem Dec 2014 #89

Two, 100-kg missiles are enough to drop the max ceiling by quite a bit, actually NickB79 Dec 2014 #91

How much? reorg Dec 2014 #126

...or the untrained rebels accidentally locked onto MH-17 instead of the Su-25 NuclearDem Dec 2014 #130

amazing the backbending and twisting required Duckhunter935 Dec 2014 #135

You can not target a missile to a cockpit Duckhunter935 Dec 2014 #133

So it might have had a proximity warhead, interesting n/t reorg Dec 2014 #146

you seem to be forgetting the other dozen Duckhunter935 Dec 2014 #149

That R-73 missile you say did the shootdown Duckhunter935 Dec 2014 #132

He's just grasping at straws at this point. NuclearDem Dec 2014 #134

I know Duckhunter935 Dec 2014 #136

Those pesky facts again. GGJohn Dec 2014 #137

A little knowledge of aircraft performance also helps Major Nikon Dec 2014 #165

Even if the Su-25 could claw it's way up to 33,000.... Adrahil Dec 2014 #141

Not according to this expert reorg Dec 2014 #148

I work in aviation... And have for 30 years. Adrahil Dec 2014 #152

and we have the closed mind? Duckhunter935 Dec 2014 #154

The closest I ever came to the aviation industry reorg Dec 2014 #167

I have no sound Duckhunter935 Dec 2014 #153

Still flogging this shit? Give it a rest. HERVEPA Dec 2014 #42

The performance and designed role of the SU-25 makes this story unlikely Lurks Often Dec 2014 #43

or perhaps not reorg Dec 2014 #50

Thanks for posting links Duckhunter935 Dec 2014 #62

None of your links appear to disprove my comments Lurks Often Dec 2014 #80

See post 141. This story is complete fantasy. n/t Adrahil Dec 2014 #142

Sorry, but we prefer the word of the City on a Hill that will soon release Karmadillo Dec 2014 #44

I believe in the karmadillo! randome Dec 2014 #48

Actually, Russia's attempt to make the shootdown look like an attempted assassination of Putin NuclearDem Dec 2014 #53

+ $5 Billion nationalize the fed Dec 2014 #113

Are you still pushing that ridiculous meme? NuclearDem Dec 2014 #116

'Those of you who still have an open mind' Rex Dec 2014 #68

Snark, right only pointing out facts=snark Duckhunter935 Dec 2014 #77

Kewl story bro! Rex Dec 2014 #115

The "haranguing" is over the complete technical implausibility of the story. NuclearDem Dec 2014 #78

or so you claim, not caring reorg Dec 2014 #87

"The source is not anonymous" NuclearDem Dec 2014 #88

He is not anonymous like some "experts" trying to tell us how the world works reorg Dec 2014 #120

Alright, if you're just going to recycle the exact same bullshit NuclearDem Dec 2014 #124

"self-defense forces in eastern Ukraine" Duckhunter935 Dec 2014 #138

This message was self-deleted by its author GGJohn Dec 2014 #128

Rockets and missiles are 2 completely different weapons, GGJohn Dec 2014 #129

Yes, keep an open mind for Putin! zappaman Dec 2014 #82

"Those of you who still have an open mind" nichomachus Dec 2014 #85

In the last 6 months, you've started 111 threads in GD... SidDithers Dec 2014 #94

What's it to you? another_liberal Dec 2014 #95

Wow. zappaman Dec 2014 #143

Oh look, Putin's shill is back... Adrahil Dec 2014 #100

Doesn't have to pay anything. Archae Dec 2014 #107

The Su-25 does not have an air to air radar. Adrahil Dec 2014 #103

Everything you say may be accurate . . . another_liberal Dec 2014 #106

You can look up the Su-25's capabilities yourself. Adrahil Dec 2014 #118

"Russia�s Investigative Committee is to investigate a Russian newspaper" Sunlei Dec 2014 #109

$5 Billion Dollars buys a lot of things nationalize the fed Dec 2014 #112

...over 20 years. NuclearDem Dec 2014 #117

They forget that part Duckhunter935 Dec 2014 #139

"$5 Billion Dollars buys a lot of things" EX500rider Dec 2014 #166

how long you think Putin has? arely staircase Dec 2014 #114

I think the point has been missed. PeoViejo Dec 2014 #127

Probably correct Duckhunter935 Dec 2014 #140

If I remember correctly PeoViejo Dec 2014 #155

System probably had IFF Duckhunter935 Dec 2014 #159