Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
Editorials & Other Articles
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: MH17 was the, "Wrong plane," says Ukrainian fighter pilot after shootdown. [View all]reorg
(3,317 posts)167. The closest I ever came to the aviation industry
was when I visited my uncle in the small sailplane factory he worked for, many, many years ago. They built stuff like that:

And no, I know next to nothing about planes and have never pretended I do, in stark contrast to a number of posters here with their sweeping claims even I can recognize as biased, misleading and sometimes outright false.
The "self-styled expert" I was quoting is Jeffrey Ethell:
"I've flown it. And I was very impressed. I was the first Western pilot to fly the airplane. And, the reason? Nobody wants to fly it. Naah, it's a Su-25, same thing as an old A-10, who wants to fly that. ..." (9:28-9:45)
Look, I don't need to "grasp at straws", I didn't make any sweeping claims like "the SU-25 is just too slow", or that it cannot possibly reach the height of 10 kilometers and so forth. I am not the one assuming, for no reason, that the plane would have had to be fully loaded with ground attack weapons if and when it attacked the airliner, nor do I try to imagine magic scenarios like what some yahoos may or may not have been able to accomplish or what may have been on their mind at some point or other.
The issue has been debated repeatedly, the arguments on all sides are readily available for everyone who wants to know. What's new is that someone came forward who claims to have witnessed that
a) air-to-air missiles were mounted on some Su-25 that were flying sorties during the week of the MH17 crash,
b) on the day of the crash a returning Su-25 that had left with such missiles no longer had them,
c) the pilot of that plane made some strange remarks
Those who allow for the possibility that one or several Su-25 had something to do with the crash will see this as further evidence which should be investigated, those who have made up their mind obviously don't.
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
Recommendations
0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):
167 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
MH17 was the, "Wrong plane," says Ukrainian fighter pilot after shootdown. [View all]
another_liberal
Dec 2014
OP
It's all over the world press. Only the Corporate Media has stopped reporting on that
sabrina 1
Dec 2014
#98
the rational view - Russia didn't ask for this & Putin has high approval in his country
WillYourVoteBCounted
Dec 2014
#163
The difference is.. RT is Putin's Propaganda Outlet and US Media is GOPropaganda. And, most of us
Cha
Dec 2014
#105
4 "investigating" Countries Agreed Not to Disclose Key Details in Downing of MH17
WillYourVoteBCounted
Dec 2014
#161
MH17 - 4 Countries Agreed Not to Disclose Key Details in Downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17
WillYourVoteBCounted
Dec 2014
#164
How many different explanations is this now? I lost count. Next thing we'll know Putin
Nuclear Unicorn
Dec 2014
#5
"Consciousness of guilt," I think the term is. "Muddying the waters," also comes to mind.
Nuclear Unicorn
Dec 2014
#7
Putin will need to wait until OJ is finished finding the real hackers for North Korea
Trekologer
Dec 2014
#15
A source that's been discredited more than Shrub needs an open minded approach?
hobbit709
Dec 2014
#19
"A witness, who chose to remain anonymous, told Komsomolskaya Pravda (KP) daily"
Nuclear Unicorn
Dec 2014
#3
There are also conservative "media reports" and "studies" that show climate change is a hoax.
pampango
Dec 2014
#17
My point? "That is the way the game is played..RT story is not a surprise." "Some people tell lies."
pampango
Dec 2014
#41
I'll leave all that to a team of unbiased, neutral international experts to explore . . .
another_liberal
Dec 2014
#102
They already did, and found it was brought down by a surface to air missile.
NuclearDem
Dec 2014
#104
Knowledge of how surface to air and air to air missiles work, and photographs of the wreckage.
NuclearDem
Dec 2014
#123
"Chances are the rebels locked onto MH-17 while trying to lock onto the Su-25 and fired."
Adsos Letter
Dec 2014
#145
Two, 100-kg missiles are enough to drop the max ceiling by quite a bit, actually
NickB79
Dec 2014
#91
...or the untrained rebels accidentally locked onto MH-17 instead of the Su-25
NuclearDem
Dec 2014
#130
Actually, Russia's attempt to make the shootdown look like an attempted assassination of Putin
NuclearDem
Dec 2014
#53
The "haranguing" is over the complete technical implausibility of the story.
NuclearDem
Dec 2014
#78