General Discussion

still_one

(98,883 posts)

70. Your complaint is legitimate, but you are being punished for one couple gaming it, and the IRS ruled

Thu Dec 25, 2014, 09:16 PM

Dec 2014

that wasn't the intent of the rollover to obtain a 60 day interest free loan.

By the way, before you take the money out, there are ways to avoid the 10% penalty if you are no 59 and 1/2 or older. You will still need to pay taxes, but will not be subject to the 10% early withdrawal. What you need to do is petit up as an annuity. You can setup a series of annuity payments from your IRA without incurring the early withdrawal penalty. You must use an IRS-distribution method, and take a least one withdrawal annually to avoid the penalty. In addition, you have to continue to take the distributions for 5 years or until you are 59 1/2. Once you reach 59 1/2 you are no longer obligated to take those distributions. The thing to be aware is that if you stop taking the distributions once you have started before 59 1/2 then you will be liable for the penalty on the money taken out.

There are other ways to avoid the penalty also:
1. Unremimbursed medical expenses that exceed 10% of your AGI
2. Health Insurance premiums following a period of unemployment
3. If you become disabled.

Keep in mind all the cases you will avoid any withdrawal penalty, but you will still need to pay taxes on it.

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401(k)s are a sham: Duped by a DIY retirement dream, elderly face staggeringly low living standards [View all] NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 OP

du rec. xchrom Dec 2014 #1

great Frontline if you missed it....shows what a scam they are antigop Dec 2014 #2

SO glad I mistrusted this from the start! silverweb Dec 2014 #3

+1 CountAllVotes Dec 2014 #6

If he lost 2/3, he put his money in some very high risk investments HERVEPA Dec 2014 #11

Maybe I have it backwards. silverweb Dec 2014 #12

I lost close to 50% joeglow3 Dec 2014 #18

A lot depends on your not having to take the money at a bad time. merrily Dec 2014 #128

This should only apply in catastrophic circumstances joeglow3 Dec 2014 #148

Do you know when you're going to get laid off? dickthegrouch Dec 2014 #151

I would consider that catastrophic. joeglow3 Dec 2014 #155

And I would share that advice like a disease joeglow3 Dec 2014 #156

As people near retirement or enter it, they are likelier and likelier to suffer catastropic merrily Dec 2014 #175

me too mahina Dec 2014 #165

The 401k plan almost definitely igave him choices of where to invest. If he lost 2/3 HERVEPA Dec 2014 #19

do you know that half the population is below average intelligence? jberryhill Dec 2014 #122

this. PowerToThePeople Dec 2014 #145

He should nt have had to 'withdraw' pangaia Dec 2014 #37

A lot of companies only offered their stock in the 401k. I think Enron was like that. LiberalArkie Dec 2014 #61

Enron highly encouraged employees to purchase company stock tammywammy Dec 2014 #65

Enron Employees Were Lied To StevePaulson Dec 2014 #97

I don't disagree that Enron lied. tammywammy Dec 2014 #102

Yep, the game is rigged and "full disclosure" is not always what it's cracked up to be. merrily Dec 2014 #130

The Labor Dept guidelines say there should be at least three options FBaggins Dec 2014 #68

Yeah, but I'm betting even with a 1/3 loss, he was still up over Adrahil Dec 2014 #72

At interest rates for the last 6 years, putting $ in the bank is about like putting $ in a mattress. merrily Dec 2014 #131

Imagine what they would do to Bush's "individual accounts social security". Enthusiast Dec 2014 #160

That's why I keep my 401K customerserviceguy Dec 2014 #17

You don't need an investment advisor. HERVEPA Dec 2014 #21

I am over fifty customerserviceguy Dec 2014 #24

Fear of a stock market collapse, and worse, pangaia Dec 2014 #38

If the 401K provider customerserviceguy Dec 2014 #42

Cna you invest in ANY Vanguard Fund? pangaia Dec 2014 #43

Unfortunately customerserviceguy Dec 2014 #45

Money market funds are NOT risk-free antigop Dec 2014 #30

If they had customerserviceguy Dec 2014 #41

NOTHING is risk-free, really. Adrahil Dec 2014 #74

Just look at the historical performance. Adrahil Dec 2014 #71

You forgot the sarcasm thingie. Enthusiast Dec 2014 #159

SO, what are you doing for retirement? Adrahil Dec 2014 #69

I never bought into it. cwydro Dec 2014 #83

What are you doing instead for retirement? Matariki Dec 2014 #103

He sold the rest? Why? He would be ahead today yeoman6987 Dec 2014 #135

here is a link....I don't think the ruling applies to trustee-to-trustee transfers antigop Dec 2014 #4

Yes, you can make as many trustee to trustee transfers in a year as you want progree Dec 2014 #23

The same n/t A HERETIC I AM Dec 2014 #96

What's the same? The trustee to trustee transfer is verydifferent from the rollover where you take progree Dec 2014 #106

I was answering the question in your last sentence. A HERETIC I AM Dec 2014 #108

Gotcha. OK. I thought so but wasn't totally sure. Thanks. n/t. progree Dec 2014 #111

They was no such animal as a 401K when I was working CountAllVotes Dec 2014 #5

Just wait until the Republicans whom the non-voters ushered in . . . Triana Dec 2014 #7

IRA's and 401's are big time crap shoot for many. Wellstone ruled Dec 2014 #8

While I do not doubt for one second you are sincere in your convictions..... A HERETIC I AM Dec 2014 #15

Thanks, that's what I was thinking customerserviceguy Dec 2014 #20

Yes, you own the 401k tammywammy Dec 2014 #25

I'm pretty sure customerserviceguy Dec 2014 #29

Assuming they deposited your funds appropriately... FormerOstrich Dec 2014 #63

Good point customerserviceguy Dec 2014 #173

Pensions Aren't That Fluid Either ProfessorGAC Dec 2014 #134

k & r. Thanks for posting. nm rhett o rick Dec 2014 #9

I am retiring next year due to my money in IRA's and 401k (amd 403b) HERVEPA Dec 2014 #10

As well as maintaining a low cost lifestyle. flygal Dec 2014 #28

Exactly. HERVEPA Dec 2014 #104

Any sort of retirement plan is only good if you put money into it bhikkhu Dec 2014 #13

Too many people do not understand basic principles of investing, nor do they understand the still_one Dec 2014 #16

You make it sound so easy. Curmudgeoness Dec 2014 #31

the new plans are better deals for the company and for Wall Street. nt antigop Dec 2014 #36

Where exactly do you think the money in a defined benefit plan is held? A HERETIC I AM Dec 2014 #44

But there is a difference. Curmudgeoness Dec 2014 #91

Just not true. Buy an index Fund and you'll likely do as well as anyone HERVEPA Dec 2014 #124

Better, actually. dawg Dec 2014 #136

Exactly! HERVEPA Dec 2014 #137

Unless you end up retiring at the wrong time. Curmudgeoness Dec 2014 #167

You are right about defined benefit pension plans bhikkhu Dec 2014 #47

Defined benefit pension plans customerserviceguy Dec 2014 #52

What came first, the chicken or the egg? Curmudgeoness Dec 2014 #93

Good point customerserviceguy Dec 2014 #172

Tell me about it. Curmudgeoness Dec 2014 #174

Educate yourself. There's not much yu need to do. HERVEPA Dec 2014 #123

" It would still be worthwhile if the fees are under 5%, ..." pangaia Dec 2014 #40

My employer match is 38% or so bhikkhu Dec 2014 #48

Caution FreeJoe Dec 2014 #50

The points you state here are exactly why 401ks should never have Nay Dec 2014 #60

+100 NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #86

Well said! GOLGO 13 Dec 2014 #129

First you start with 401Ks, then you take about IRA rollovers. The only way you can make a rollover still_one Dec 2014 #14

Don't bother with facts. Indydem Dec 2014 #26

Top 5% owns about 2/3 of stock. Maybe owning that much gives some a better cushion NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #34

Here is a breakdown according to Pew still_one Dec 2014 #180

I said the top 5% owns 2/3 of all stock. The information from Pew is saying something different. NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #183

I didn't not contradict you or say you were wrong. All I was pointing out is that about 60% of still_one Dec 2014 #184

really...? NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #185

Thanks still_one Dec 2014 #62

401K is the article, IRAs is my personal question. I don't have a 401K, thus I have no NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #33

Your confusion may be a perfectly understandable misunderstanding re: "rollover" FBaggins Dec 2014 #66

"You're thinking of a CD that "rolls over" into a new CD of the same maturity at the end of the term NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #87

Sorry... it doesn't matter what you call them FBaggins Dec 2014 #89

Yes; I know I'm losing money to inflation but I don't know what else to put it in that's NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #119

food for thought, you may want to investigate I-Bonds. Now may not be the best time, and still_one Dec 2014 #181

Your complaint is legitimate, but you are being punished for one couple gaming it, and the IRS ruled still_one Dec 2014 #70

I don't want to take any money out. I just want to roll over my IRAs. NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #84

And I gave you the reason why the IRS didn't allow it, because of that case were they gamed it. I still_one Dec 2014 #101

Trustee to trustee rollovers aren't limited. tammywammy Dec 2014 #113

If I had the money for a 'financial advisor,' i wouldn't be here. NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #116

Talk to whomever is doing your IRAs tammywammy Dec 2014 #117

thanks for the clarification. my credit union. NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #118

Good point still_one Dec 2014 #162

You are using confusing or inaccurate terminology. A HERETIC I AM Dec 2014 #114

Close but not exactly lumberjack_jeff Dec 2014 #157

You are correct. Whichever is longer. Unfortunately a lot of folks still_one Dec 2014 #161

I'm doing it for strategic reasons. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2014 #166

Everyone's situation is unique. However, heredity does play into still_one Dec 2014 #169

You have 60 days if you take the money out of the employers 401k to put it into an IRA HERVEPA Dec 2014 #179

UNREC brooklynite Dec 2014 #22

The key word here is "able" eridani Dec 2014 #32

Sure could... what's your alternative? Adrahil Dec 2014 #75

A Scandinavian safety net n/t eridani Dec 2014 #120

+1 merrily Dec 2014 #176

That isn't the point. The point you are making is people cannot afford to save for retirement still_one Dec 2014 #78

The government has been deeply involved already -- in destroying traditional pensions, NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #88

even before iras and 401ks there were a hell of a lot of people who did not have still_one Dec 2014 #99

According to this: NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #121

That report has a lot of information to digest, and will take me some time to go through. still_one Dec 2014 #139

Median HOUSEHOLD income is ~$52K. NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #85

52k is without context. How many people per household, geographical area, and age group. a single still_one Dec 2014 #100

Real wages have been about stagnant for 50 years. That is far from so re: the real income of the 1%. merrily Dec 2014 #133

+1 merrily Dec 2014 #177

My employer matches my contributions madville Dec 2014 #27

you understand that half the population has no pension, no stocks, no 401k, right? NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #46

I was in that exact scenario years ago madville Dec 2014 #55

and you understand that median HOUSEHOLD income is about 51K, right? NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #58

Out of every dollar of profit made in the USA, 49 cents now goes to the Bankers & Big Money people truedelphi Dec 2014 #35

PLUS ONE, a whole bunch! Enthusiast Dec 2014 #163

I was ripped off twice early on and I asked for a 401K, I was their pension specialist. hollysmom Dec 2014 #39

pensions are what should be provided at every job Ramses Dec 2014 #49

So companies should promise benefits to their own employees, and the taxpayers hughee99 Dec 2014 #152

Oh My...... Ernesto Dec 2014 #51

Record 401k gains to match the stock market? 4_TN_TITANS Dec 2014 #53

yes Skittles Dec 2014 #59

Nope. My funds have out-performed the market a tad. Adrahil Dec 2014 #76

Are you invested excluseively in large-cap stocks? FBaggins Dec 2014 #79

Collect fees, add ballast, absorb losses. moondust Dec 2014 #54

My 401k and IRA have done me pretty good. But one big line of doc03 Dec 2014 #56

And dat's why I like my Roth Fla_Democrat Dec 2014 #57

The Great 401(k) Hoax antigop Dec 2014 #64

Spot on. Octafish Dec 2014 #67

yes, spot on...the Wall St. apologists on this thread really have no shame. nt antigop Dec 2014 #81

The real culprit IphengeniaBlumgarten Dec 2014 #73

Well said! Adrahil Dec 2014 #77

I somewhat agree FreeJoe Dec 2014 #82

401ks ONLY help keeping the wall street casino alive AFTER the baby boomers leave. pansypoo53219 Dec 2014 #80

Wow. Brigid Dec 2014 #90

Enjoy Your Dog Food America Dirty Socialist Dec 2014 #92

the responses on retirement threads here on DU depress me. I think I'm going to add liberal_at_heart Dec 2014 #94

Elizabeth Warren: "The system is rigged." antigop Dec 2014 #95

Does Elizabeth Warren recommend we don't invest? Put it under a mattress? Or stick to CD's? progree Dec 2014 #109

Declining living standards are at the heart of most of our issues. dawg Dec 2014 #141

+100 NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #182

I have a 401K, a Roth IRA, own a bond and stock index funds, have savings, and physical precious Yavin4 Dec 2014 #98

And then there are pensions, which apparently can be crushed in one fell swoop... Matariki Dec 2014 #105

Where I worked often most of the funds were sh** funds. The CEOs seemed to have a cozy relationship RKP5637 Dec 2014 #107

Oh, crap. blackspade Dec 2014 #110

If you have access to a 401k and an employee match you should absolutely take advantage of the match Godhumor Dec 2014 #112

It is not essentially free funds. Stop working and see if you still have a job and the "free funds". Skeeter Barnes Dec 2014 #143

The question I haven't seen is what is the better alternative? Renew Deal Dec 2014 #115

The better alternative is to pay a lifelong livable wage Orrex Dec 2014 #125

I meant something else Renew Deal Dec 2014 #126

With respect, I think that you've been steered into asking the wrong question Orrex Dec 2014 #132

This is one of the many reasons I figure to work until I can't Arcadiasix Dec 2014 #127

Investing is not gambling, and Wall Street is not a casino. dawg Dec 2014 #138

A 401k was never designed to be all of your retirement. They were created to supplement pensions. Skeeter Barnes Dec 2014 #140

The greatest imperative related to this issue is the need to protect Social Security benefits ... dawg Dec 2014 #142

Choose Vanguard yellowwoodII Dec 2014 #144

Since most corporation have done away with pensions, we don't have any choice B Calm Dec 2014 #146

I intend to work until they nail the lid shut, but... meaculpa2011 Dec 2014 #147

And Hillary's pal Pete Peterson wants the rest of retirees' money too. DirkGently Dec 2014 #149

Precisely. Enthusiast Dec 2014 #164

I never bought into the scam magical thyme Dec 2014 #150

Not a scam... brooklynite Dec 2014 #158

Who ever thought that 401k was the only thing you needed? dilby Dec 2014 #153

In decent shape here, entirely because of 401k lumberjack_jeff Dec 2014 #154

When I first got a 401k I went to the most financially savvy person I knew Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2014 #168

Whenever got into a new 401K I would take the different investment options to my financial adviser B Calm Dec 2014 #170

Kick Liberal_in_LA Dec 2014 #171

Only means when your employer goes belly up, you might still have something One_Life_To_Give Dec 2014 #178