General Discussion

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)

43. If they've been denied access, they can refuse to pass the results.

Sat Dec 27, 2014, 03:56 AM

Dec 2014

And we haven't lost anything - we've abdicated it. You want it back, take it back. The people who want to dictate their terms to you aren't magical beings, they're just people. Just assholes like us, only with more money.

I am not trusting of those negotiating this treaty. I just refuse to substitute paranoia in the place of facts, because I've seen what that does - and it sure as hell doesn't empower working people. Name one - just one - case where a deal like this was positively impacted, let alone defeated, by this kind of hysteria.

And once again, I'm not defending anything other than basic reason. What PROPOSALS (you seem to keep forgetting that word) get leaked are the ones heinous enough to motivate someone to leak them.

Trade deals are treaties. The Executive negotiates and the Legislative votes on treaties. You want to change that, change the Constitution.

Too bad so few of "us" turned up to vote in November, huh? Actions (and the absence of actions) have consequences.

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Obama hopes to enlist GOP in push for trade pact, despite Democratic resistance [View all] n2doc Dec 2014 OP

Well, after all, those are the people he has most in common with. djean111 Dec 2014 #1

Please tell me why? Obama folks here who upaloopa Dec 2014 #2

Obama LIED in 2008. And Obama LIED again in 2012. blkmusclmachine Dec 2014 #8

Yep. nt RiverLover Dec 2014 #17

How is it against what he promised? True Blue Door Dec 2014 #12

It hurts working class Americans upaloopa Dec 2014 #32

How does it hurt working class Americans? True Blue Door Dec 2014 #41

Read this thread and google TPP upaloopa Dec 2014 #60

You will never get an answer. treestar Dec 2014 #69

If you have a min wage and a Chinese company can go to their in house negotiator court and win damages Vincardog Dec 2014 #86

Moves jobs overseas - TBF Dec 2014 #92

Why would you oppose a trade deal ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #30

How do you know what is in it? Even Congress cannot see this 'global deal' which is an outrage. The sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #36

Have you asked that question of the ant-TPP folks? 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #47

What we've learned (no scare quotes) is OBAMA's discreditable negotiating position Jim Lane Dec 2014 #79

You mean the end of the process (with F/T) where congress 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #88

You emphasize public review but you're OK with fast track, which drastically curtails that review. Jim Lane Dec 2014 #94

I disagree ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #97

It COULD be a lot less than that, if I read the excerpt correctly. Buns_of_Fire Dec 2014 #98

15 days is more than enough time to review 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #99

Considering that they don't seem to be doing much else, you're probably right. Buns_of_Fire Dec 2014 #100

That's totally unrealistic Jim Lane Dec 2014 #110

Okay. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #111

What debate can be had in the 88 seconds per senator time limit allowed? Vincardog Dec 2014 #103

Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #105

FAST TRACK Authority does not allow any committees. Quit Blowing smoke. Vincardog Dec 2014 #107

The agreement would go through committee but with restrictions. Jim Lane Dec 2014 #115

Why then should we grant it Fast Track and disallow any debate about it? Vincardog Dec 2014 #87

Are you or have you ever been in a union ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #89

Union membership holds a vote to accept or decline a contrat. Without that vote there is no contract Bluenorthwest Dec 2014 #95

And Congress votes to accept or decline the trade agreement ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #96

If as you state "The time to debate/comment on the agreement is the time between when the trade Vincardog Dec 2014 #102

Paid to be obtuse? ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #104

Then answer at least one of the factual objections raised. Vincardog Dec 2014 #106

This is why MFrohike Dec 2014 #62

Please name a modern trade deal that has benefitted American workers BrotherIvan Dec 2014 #64

There hasn't been a modern trade deal that has benefitted American workers ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #67

Alright then, I will no longer waste my time BrotherIvan Dec 2014 #75

??? ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #80

It is a fact labor is cheaper in those countries treestar Dec 2014 #71

Apparently you don't know how trade agreements work and who they benefit BrotherIvan Dec 2014 #77

I think there is just a knee jerk thing against "trade agreements" treestar Dec 2014 #84

I'm wishing him a major fail on the TPP. This is a horrible bit of legislation, IMHO. n/t CaliforniaPeggy Dec 2014 #3

Sad, isn't it? So much good will built up, particularly over the past month or so. arcane1 Dec 2014 #9

Same here Populist_Prole Dec 2014 #58

I can't wait to come on to DU and read about how this is supposed to be a good thing. arcane1 Dec 2014 #4

I bet you won't have to wait long. The third way has been summoned! benz380 Dec 2014 #11

Like how every superb liberal thing he does is instantly forgotten or denigrated? True Blue Door Dec 2014 #13

You don't have to wait, I just responded to such a post above. The Third Way is ready for anyone sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #38

You've just admitted you do not want to hear both sides of an argument treestar Dec 2014 #65

How does "can't wait to read" translate into "not want to hear"? arcane1 Dec 2014 #70

Intellectualism is not defined by giving the same old bullshit credence each time it is uttered. TheKentuckian Dec 2014 #108

Same can be said regarding any disagreement treestar Dec 2014 #112

Question about "snide remarks" Jim Lane Dec 2014 #113

I hate this! cilla4progress Dec 2014 #5

Fuck.. WillyT Dec 2014 #6

Obama is an '80s Republican. He's said so himself on more than one occassion. blkmusclmachine Dec 2014 #7

Tough One For The Obama Bots To Defend colsohlibgal Dec 2014 #10

"Obama Bots"...isn't that a teabagger term? True Blue Door Dec 2014 #14

Let the teabaggers use whatever terminology they want. The point is that Obama is trying totodeinhere Dec 2014 #23

I thought the complaint du jour was that TPP was being negotiated secretively. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #25

I would like to know also. nt babylonsister Dec 2014 #26

We progressives have multiple complaints, which aren't inconsistent Jim Lane Dec 2014 #34

Okay. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #37

Why progressives continue to complain about the TPP Jim Lane Dec 2014 #44

Yes, of course that is a complaint. Are you suggesting that our elected officials in Congress have sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #39

I would like Congress to play more of a role in negotiations True Blue Door Dec 2014 #40

I guess you have't been following this over the past few years. Congress would like, in fact they sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #42

If they've been denied access, they can refuse to pass the results. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #43

Trade deals are NOT treaties aspirant Dec 2014 #45

'Hysteria, paranoia'! That says it all. You clearly refuse to accept the FACTS which you are sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #56

Negotiated in secret ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #48

Plus they are having it both ways treestar Dec 2014 #73

I know ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #78

No one's ever tried to argue for the treaty. treestar Dec 2014 #68

I'd love to hear the argument for fast track. Jim Lane Dec 2014 #114

Here we go again aspirant Dec 2014 #15

Blast from the Past -- Obama 2008 RiverLover Dec 2014 #16

Exposure aspirant Dec 2014 #18

"I said any trade agreement I would support had to contain real, enforceable standards for workers." pampango Dec 2014 #29

I do not find you creditable because you post things from Tea Party speakers markme88 Dec 2014 #90

Thats the guy I voted for DJ13 Dec 2014 #33

Me, too. Octafish Dec 2014 #55

Looks like Obama and his GOP partners are going to succeed in getting fast track. How nice for them. pa28 Dec 2014 #19

Then we have to listen to right wingers blaming the Democratic party for the next 30 yrs. B Calm Dec 2014 #116

Yay! Bipartisanship we can believe in! neverforget Dec 2014 #20

From the link Boreal Dec 2014 #21

You've got to love the rhetoric about worker protections. pa28 Dec 2014 #22

"all fixed" Boreal Dec 2014 #31

Ive been reading about this extensively Ramses Dec 2014 #24

"Empower corporate entities while stripping the people" PumpkinAle Dec 2014 #27

"Democrats keep losing because we don't defend government actions enough!" (or something like that) MisterP Dec 2014 #28

"Enlist GOP" AgingAmerican Dec 2014 #35

This could mean a pay cut for 90% of US workers, of course Democrats don't want it. RiverLover Dec 2014 #46

Just another example of having to play defense against a Democratic president. Broward Dec 2014 #49

600 corps have seen the TPP in full, along with some unions. Here's what the unions think~ RiverLover Dec 2014 #50

Anyone feeling betrayed yet? 99Forever Dec 2014 #51

I like Obama, but when he backs republicans and their free trade B Calm Dec 2014 #93

Obama stabbing us in the back, again. Odin2005 Dec 2014 #52

Never forget - HILLARY helped write this, HILLARY is shilling this. n/t djean111 Dec 2014 #53

K&R It is the desire of Wall St supporters and investors, it will happen. nt raouldukelives Dec 2014 #54

Contact your Senator and tell him to vote no! yortsed snacilbuper Dec 2014 #57

As long as we get those 2 dollar a day salaries. It will be cause to celebrate more American Katashi_itto Dec 2014 #59

The Audacity of Collaborating with the Republicans. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2014 #61

Answering the question, "Why did the Democrats tank the midterms twice?" BrotherIvan Dec 2014 #63

Well, that might tank it. Cerridwen Dec 2014 #66

Money trumps politics n2doc Dec 2014 #74

Yeah, I know. Wishful thinking. I engage it in sometimes. n/t Cerridwen Dec 2014 #76

Holy Crap%*!@ Just read full article linked...This started out as a George W Bush deal. RiverLover Dec 2014 #72

as I suspected,the BOG is now pimping this atrocity Doctor_J Dec 2014 #81

this is not news. we knew Pres Obama was riversedge Dec 2014 #82

Right, but that isn't what this story is about. Its about his own party being ag it and needing GOP RiverLover Dec 2014 #83

"Obama Ran Twice on Anti-NAFTA Free Trade; He was Lying to Us. Big TPP Push" RiverLover Dec 2014 #85

Just like NAFTA, republicans will pass it then sit on their hemorrhoid asses and point B Calm Dec 2014 #91

The key is to get it done long enough before the election Turbineguy Dec 2014 #101

He'd better use a really long spoon rock Dec 2014 #109