General Discussion

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)

199. Not so. We simply disagree on what is "clearly" shown.

Sat Dec 27, 2014, 09:04 PM

Dec 2014

And the second video, being a close up, has more weight than the impossible-to-see grainy video you "clearly" can see.

Are you finding my assertion ridiculous that he ran into the safety of the store? Clearly the second video shows you would be wrong.

Are you finding my assertion ridiculous that the officer's other shots went wild? Clearly the BPD's own statement to the media has said they did.

Are you finding my assertion ridiculous that anyone else finding themselves in that situation would also have gone for cover? Clearly the video shows the other people in the parking lot thought it prudent to seek cover, and they were a lot further away.

Is my assertion ridiculous that he was the closest eyewitness to the shooting and can definitively say what Antonio Martin had in his right hand? Clearly the video shows he is only about an arms length from Martin.

Is my assertion ridiculous that, if his account differs from the officer's as to what Martin held in his hand, he has reason to be afraid to come forward? While clearly only a subjective assertion, I suspect a majority of polled DUers will agree that it would not be ridiculous to fear for their safety under those circumstances.

Is it ridiculous to assert that, if his account concurs with the officer's, he should come forward and make a statement to that effect? Clearly the police would welcome such an affirmation.

Is it ridiculous to assert that video of the two hour aftermath of the homicide would help to quiet public speculation as to the existence of a gun. Well, that does depend on what the camera caught, but the possibility exists, so, again, not ridiculous.

Do you find my assertion ridiculous that his face might have been captured on the store's inside video? Clearly Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown's faces were, so it's very likely his would be, and therefore you'd think the police would get it out there so the public could help identify an eyewitness to what they clearly state is a justified shooting.

You didn't state my questions were ridiculous, so perhaps we have common ground there.

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YOU CANNOT SEE A GUN IN THE VIDEOS RELEASED BY THE POLICE. [View all] sheshe2 Dec 2014 OP

I also have my doubts riverbendviewgal Dec 2014 #1

That's been debunked. _Blue_ Dec 2014 #2

Guns can't be planted? sheshe2 Dec 2014 #8

Do you see the cops flash light beam ? that wasn't his cell phone light helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #17

Conspiracy theories are getting a little ridiculous. _Blue_ Dec 2014 #18

Your use of the term "conspiracies theories" as a pejorative ends your creditability. nm rhett o rick Dec 2014 #81

No it doesn't. _Blue_ Dec 2014 #86

You mean everyone should agree with you and if they don't you wont tolerate it. rhett o rick Dec 2014 #113

The gun wasn't planted, despite how badly you want to believe that this was GGJohn Dec 2014 #19

Link please for where it states the gun wasn't planted... sheshe2 Dec 2014 #22

Link please where it states the gun was planted.... GGJohn Dec 2014 #27

Nope, you made a statement sheshe2 Dec 2014 #31

Of course guns can be planted, GGJohn Dec 2014 #33

Well of course not "in this case". sheshe2 Dec 2014 #46

No, common sense, try it. GGJohn Dec 2014 #50

Crystal ball tell u it was? 840high Dec 2014 #108

Is there any evidence it was? This is getting silly n/t Adrahil Dec 2014 #121

I love the audacity of your certainty. You are positive that the gun wasn't planted. rhett o rick Dec 2014 #82

I'll argue as I see fit, thank you very much. GGJohn Dec 2014 #83

I think that disagreements and honest discussions are healthy. I don't think that those rhett o rick Dec 2014 #115

That's a fair argument. GGJohn Dec 2014 #116

It's not necessary to be "forceful" if you have a decent arguement. But claiming that rhett o rick Dec 2014 #119

Here, not definitive evidence, but pretty damn convincing. GGJohn Dec 2014 #124

Are you arguing it was? cherokeeprogressive Dec 2014 #125

No, of course not. They're "just asking questions". greyl Dec 2014 #127

How can you tell...do you know anybody that was there because... Stellar Dec 2014 #157

Because I've yet to see a cellphone in the shape of a gun. GGJohn Dec 2014 #158

It's too bad all of what you say wasn't clear. Stellar Dec 2014 #163

There is a gun. You got any physical evidence that it was in his hand, or just jtuck004 Dec 2014 #40

Just the video, the officer and the criminal history. _Blue_ Dec 2014 #41

The officers criminal history? In other words you have nothing except victim blaming. jtuck004 Dec 2014 #44

No, the violent criminal history of the decedent. _Blue_ Dec 2014 #45

This grainy Rorschach-like image does not constitute "evidence" 99th_Monkey Dec 2014 #66

nor does the criminal history of the dead man. having a criminal history doesn't = evidence NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #183

+10 nt 99th_Monkey Dec 2014 #188

It is evidence, though. What it is worth pintobean Dec 2014 #192

It's not evidence. NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #193

It's pretty good evidence that he wasn't a very good citizen. GGJohn Dec 2014 #194

Take a look at your 1st video DallasNE Dec 2014 #71

It's also the type of gun planted by police; so its provenance can't be identified. duh. NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #191

I don't have a dog in this fight (meaning I haven't made up my mind)... Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2014 #87

Who can whip their phone out and have it ready to record that quickly? Ace Rothstein Dec 2014 #112

On top of I've never seen a cellphone shaped like a gun. GGJohn Dec 2014 #114

Obviously you have never had an Iphone. Alittleliberal Dec 2014 #148

Actually, there are apps that open the camera F4lconF16 Dec 2014 #151

On the iPhone, you don't need to unlock the phone and then separately click on the program. Luminous Animal Dec 2014 #176

You know JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #3

So maybe every public employee LincolnsLeftHand Dec 2014 #5

Your teachers, trash collectors and Congressmen are shooting at you? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #10

Has there been a rash of murders against unarmed civilians recently by these people? sheshe2 Dec 2014 #12

Well the employees you mentioned don't get into armed confrontations. Kingofalldems Dec 2014 #13

the employees you mentioned don't get into armed confrontations Kalidurga Dec 2014 #52

Only police folks can use deadly force as part of their job JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #15

Well, as a teacher, I can tell you that you might be stunned at the rampant 1monster Dec 2014 #47

That's precisely why . . . JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #56

In addition to 'more pay,' also 'more teachers,' which would lead to smaller class sizes, KingCharlemagne Dec 2014 #84

Plus 100 on more teachers JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #142

As soon as you posted those kids misbehaving, you'd be sued over privacy... Sancho Dec 2014 #143

They weren't in my schools JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #144

Here in Florida almost all public schools have video everywhere now... Sancho Dec 2014 #147

I can't imagine being a teacher in Florida JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #149

Florida has lots of money, but they don't support teachers or state employees. Sancho Dec 2014 #150

I'm not sure about body cameras on teachers, A Simple Game Dec 2014 #48

This message was self-deleted by its author ncjustice80 Dec 2014 #145

Who says police aren't welcome on DU? GGJohn Dec 2014 #153

Climbed the ladder quickly since August. pintobean Dec 2014 #154

Didn't know skinner and co. made him a partner. GGJohn Dec 2014 #155

If you were a good police officer who didn't shoot people without needing to gollygee Dec 2014 #162

I have an idea JAG. They should wear two cams. sheshe2 Dec 2014 #6

This Makes Sense DallasNE Dec 2014 #76

Or get alot of cops killed. GGJohn Dec 2014 #78

Or save a lot of lives. sheshe2 Dec 2014 #79

What's sad is your hatred for cops, GGJohn Dec 2014 #80

GG! sheshe2 Dec 2014 #89

I'm not saying there isn't a problem in this country with police brutality, GGJohn Dec 2014 #93

You have been asked REPEATEDLY to indicate ... Just for Fun Dec 2014 #95

The video provided by Blue clearly shows Martin pulling a gun and pointing it GGJohn Dec 2014 #98

If you have only been basing what you say on Blues sheshe2 Dec 2014 #101

Sorry you disagree, GGJohn Dec 2014 #102

Only to the pig-blind. DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2014 #152

Only to those wearing rose colored glasses... MrMickeysMom Dec 2014 #184

Only those wearing blinders refuse to see what's obvious. GGJohn Dec 2014 #186

That's just it, GGJohn�. and you don't have to wear blinders... MrMickeysMom Dec 2014 #187

Just for you Just for fun. GGJohn Dec 2014 #103

Post removed Post removed Dec 2014 #160

And that statement would make you a liar. GGJohn Dec 2014 #164

You sure have a funnh way of showing it. ncjustice80 Dec 2014 #165

Number 1, this shooting isn't murder, it's a homicide. GGJohn Dec 2014 #166

Lol ok. Keep apologizing. ncjustice80 Dec 2014 #167

LOL ok, keep lying. GGJohn Dec 2014 #168

You're out of line. nt cwydro Dec 2014 #185

So, what do you say now? GGJohn Dec 2014 #205

I think it needs to be the glasses. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #9

very good suggestion - even augmented reality glasses or visor... Anansi1171 Dec 2014 #159

There are times they shouldn't be recording jeff47 Dec 2014 #24

I would agree with when they are peeing JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #25

WTH are you talking about? GGJohn Dec 2014 #4

link to that vid? thanks uppityperson Dec 2014 #7

It's the GIF from another thread. GGJohn Dec 2014 #16

There it is again, You can 'CLEARLY' see. sheshe2 Dec 2014 #23

To a trained eye, yes there is. GGJohn Dec 2014 #26

So you are a trained analyst? sheshe2 Dec 2014 #28

I was trained to analyze, observe and take appropriate action. GGJohn Dec 2014 #30

So you have all the equipment that CBS has... sheshe2 Dec 2014 #34

Ha!!! GGJohn Dec 2014 #35

No it's not. Just for Fun Dec 2014 #53

You need to catch up, that's all been debunked. GGJohn Dec 2014 #55

Debunked by what? The police? Just for Fun Dec 2014 #58

Debunked by the same photos you claim don't show a gun. GGJohn Dec 2014 #59

Uh-huh. Just for Fun Dec 2014 #60

Already been provided in different threads. GGJohn Dec 2014 #67

CBS? sendero Dec 2014 #100

what you just wrote heaven05 Dec 2014 #61

No, you're 100% wrong, GGJohn Dec 2014 #63

right heaven05 Dec 2014 #64

aww so you are a cop? rbrnmw Dec 2014 #141

I plainly see the gun. The police are right in this case. yeoman6987 Dec 2014 #37

Yes, I'm baffled by that too. Yo_Mama Dec 2014 #42

Gun was planted Just for Fun Dec 2014 #54

You need to catch up, GGJohn Dec 2014 #57

link and quote, too many copologist on DU for me to take someones word for it uponit7771 Dec 2014 #130

I also hold my cell phone like that when I'm recording video... justiceischeap Dec 2014 #29

You hold your cellphone like a gun? Your cellphone is shaped like a gun? GGJohn Dec 2014 #32

The video was edited by the BPD.. there's also a woman walking calmly towards the scene and shows no uponit7771 Dec 2014 #132

Gun-shaped phone cases benz380 Dec 2014 #169

Some weird reason, I can't open that link. GGJohn Dec 2014 #170

here's one pintobean Dec 2014 #172

+1 uponit7771 Dec 2014 #131

aha, and we are back that word, "clearly" which clearly means different things to you and me. nt uppityperson Dec 2014 #134

Umm, at 1:17, 1:18, and 1:19, you can see that the 'cell phone' is the corner of the flashlight beam X_Digger Dec 2014 #11

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^n/t truedelphi Dec 2014 #21

I cannot see squat in the video they released. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #14

I'm with you Boreal Dec 2014 #49

Nonsense Spider Jerusalem Dec 2014 #20

Seeing a weapon seveneyes Dec 2014 #36

^^^This^^^. eom GGJohn Dec 2014 #38

I saw one - being pointed at what appears to be the officer Yo_Mama Dec 2014 #39

It was a gun. Agree with you. 840high Dec 2014 #109

I saw him pointing. The video is too far away to decide if it's a gun or not, could have jtuck004 Dec 2014 #43

Please, this sort of nonsense is exploited by the rw media. Let's not give them ammunition Vattel Dec 2014 #51

The biggest problem here isn't the bad video Kalidurga Dec 2014 #62

Exactly Kalidurga.. What's the police procedure on following one of their shootings? Do they not Cha Dec 2014 #65

A lot of times, medical won't be allowed on the scene GGJohn Dec 2014 #68

And who declares the scene safe Kalidurga Dec 2014 #72

The cops declare the scene safe, GGJohn Dec 2014 #74

Do you not get why this is a problem? Kalidurga Dec 2014 #85

Do you not get that the scene may not have been safe at the time? GGJohn Dec 2014 #88

No I don't get that the scene was not safe. Kalidurga Dec 2014 #90

You do realize it's pretty standard operating procedure to be concerned about secondary attacks? mythology Dec 2014 #106

So now this kid was a terrorist? Kalidurga Dec 2014 #107

Do you get the the police has control of the crime scene and can plant whatever they want? Just for Fun Dec 2014 #92

Except that there was no planting of evidence. GGJohn Dec 2014 #94

In other words, you won't deliver Just for Fun Dec 2014 #97

IOW, you're too lazy to go find them. GGJohn Dec 2014 #99

That video is pretty clear to me too. cwydro Dec 2014 #118

I guess they figured a dead man could not tell his side of the story. sheshe2 Dec 2014 #70

Did they also kill the guy standing next to Martin? No? Then that blows THAT theory, eh? n/t X_Digger Dec 2014 #96

The guy standing next to Martin may have something to say, yes? MrMickeysMom Dec 2014 #174

You make no sense. 840high Dec 2014 #110

+1 uponit7771 Dec 2014 #129

All I need to see is the whole video. rgbecker Dec 2014 #69

Maybe because they didn't want to cause the family more stress. GGJohn Dec 2014 #73

Yeah, you can. This one is clean. PeteSelman Dec 2014 #75

You should post... TeeYiYi Dec 2014 #77

It's all over the internet . PeteSelman Dec 2014 #104

Since it's "all over the internet"... TeeYiYi Dec 2014 #105

Nothing stopping you from 840high Dec 2014 #111

Well hello, 840high... I see you've decided to... TeeYiYi Dec 2014 #117

Look it up yourself. "nite 840high Dec 2014 #122

I'll take that as a 'no'... TeeYiYi Dec 2014 #123

Most normal humans do not go out of their way greyl Dec 2014 #128

heh Bobbie Jo Dec 2014 #177

Hey Pete sheshe2 Dec 2014 #91

Can't find anything on the cbs news site. cwydro Dec 2014 #120

Everyone wanted video in Brown case. maced666 Dec 2014 #126

No, the BPD is ... they edited the video... I want to see the whole fucking thing not what the uponit7771 Dec 2014 #133

Ha, we saw it in the Gardner case and it proved he was murdered. Live and Learn Dec 2014 #146

This doesn't look like a gun being pulled. Rex Dec 2014 #135

That looks totally different because that's not Antonio Martin. Spider Jerusalem Dec 2014 #136

Okay so the cops have a witness that Martin had a gun then. Rex Dec 2014 #137

His "friend" ran like hell, as I said. Spider Jerusalem Dec 2014 #138

So you have no idea why the friend ran, just that he ran like hell. Rex Dec 2014 #139

We can see it just fine from the other angle. Spider Jerusalem Dec 2014 #140

He ran for his life into the safety of the store. JimDandy Dec 2014 #195

Yeah, riiiiiight!!!! GGJohn Dec 2014 #196

Not so verbose anymore? JimDandy Dec 2014 #197

I've already proven you wrong in earlier posts on this thread, GGJohn Dec 2014 #198

Not so. We simply disagree on what is "clearly" shown. JimDandy Dec 2014 #199

What I'm calling ridiculous is your assertation that the officer basically executed Martin. GGJohn Dec 2014 #200

I never asserted the officer executed Martin. Didn't even imply it. JimDandy Dec 2014 #201

Don't assume that or anything... MrMickeysMom Dec 2014 #173

It would be nice if a 3rd party looked the video over. Rex Dec 2014 #175

Apparently the camera only comes on when the car lights are turned on shaayecanaan Dec 2014 #181

Reports herein are about as accurate as whether the teen had a gun� soft pitch DLC POV, I'd say... MrMickeysMom Dec 2014 #182

I'm sorry, I can't follow much of that (nt) shaayecanaan Dec 2014 #189

What? About Free Republic as a reference to this point of view? MrMickeysMom Dec 2014 #190

I knew something was fishy here Man from Pickens Dec 2014 #156

Occupy San Diego, famous for the Jay Polk fiasco pintobean Dec 2014 #161

I see a cellphone nt. rbrnmw Dec 2014 #171

I see a gun. eom GGJohn Dec 2014 #178

Antonio Martin falls when shot. You can see his feet in the lower left of the video. Jacoby365 Dec 2014 #179

Actually, he's on the right front side of the car, and the gun is next to him. GGJohn Dec 2014 #180

You can write "cell phone" chickenfairy Dec 2014 #202

I've never seen a gun with a glowing screen TriplD Dec 2014 #203

That's not a cellphone screen, it's the officer's flashlight. GGJohn Dec 2014 #204