General Discussion

IVoteDFL

(417 posts)

140. It can be inclusive

Sun Dec 28, 2014, 09:52 AM

Dec 2014

I do understand the point the OP is trying to make and I agree to a certain extent. There is a lot of ignorance on both sides of the cultural appropriation argument. Certain countries and cultures have a great desire to share their traditions, but some do not. The key is to be knowledgeable and open to their experiences.

If inclusivity is truly the goal, we can't just wear the shit and say how awesome we are for being inclusive. To avoid cultural appropriation you can't take away from the significance of it and make it about you. To just say I can do what I want because I can, is cultural appropriation and privilege. Learn why it is important and why the tradition has survived all of these years and help to keep it going. Actually be inclusive and don't make it about you.

Avoiding cultural appropriation is so simple. Just be aware. Listen and learn, and if someone tries to tell you their unique experience, be respectful and understanding. It's not hard.

This post has nothing to do with Iggy Azalea. There are tons of studio rappers who talk about things they have no understanding of. I don't care what they do, it's just the fakeness that comes with being a celebrity.

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I remember when "cultural appropriation" was seen as a sign of an inclusive society [View all] Kurska Dec 2014 OP

Evidently you think your own judgment supercedes that of the experience of BainsBane Dec 2014 #1

It is perfectly valid argument when an individual claims to own an entire genre of music via racial Kurska Dec 2014 #2

You could start by reading BainsBane Dec 2014 #3

Where did you get that I'm talking about you specifically? Kurska Dec 2014 #4

That would be your use of the word "you" BainsBane Dec 2014 #62

I was referring to individuals who think they own an entire genre of music in exclusive domain Kurska Dec 2014 #219

It's pretty obvious that this thread was spurred by the Azalia Banks-Iggy Azelea thread. Ken Burch Dec 2014 #180

I will never accept that something is okay for one race and not another. Kurska Dec 2014 #220

That isn't racism. You need to reconsider the definition. kwassa Dec 2014 #234

One thing for one race, another thing for another race Kurska Dec 2014 #237

Nope. kwassa Dec 2014 #239

I actively reject being part of any solution that treats races different, based on their race. Kurska Dec 2014 #240

So then you are opposed to affirmative action as well? n/t gollygee Dec 2014 #241

I'm gay. I grew up in a small southern town. Kurska Dec 2014 #242

Lol and it shows rjsquirrel Jan 2015 #271

True racism depends on power. Your individual rejection of this is immaterial. kwassa Dec 2014 #246

Also gollygee Dec 2014 #268

wow, a black american enka singer, and a popular one. that's pretty amazing. NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #75

His mother is Japanese rjsquirrel Dec 2014 #109

He grew up black in the US, speaking English. MY mother was German; doesn't mean I sing volkslieder. NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #115

Welcome Back! AgingAmerican Dec 2014 #184

Interesting JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #5

Should the Irish claim the use of Mammy is "cultural appropriation"? TexasProgresive Dec 2014 #7

Ask the Ghost of Margaret Mitchell or read a book by Melissa Harris Perry JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #8

I didn't say that I never knew of the word just never heard it while growing up. TexasProgresive Dec 2014 #10

It is an archetype of black women JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #34

Amen. bravenak Dec 2014 #68

I understand what you are saying marym625 Dec 2014 #123

A ton of bricks might come down on me for this JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #128

No ton of bricks marym625 Dec 2014 #129

His parents were very focused on formality and education JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #130

makes me wonder marym625 Dec 2014 #132

They knew JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #135

smart family marym625 Dec 2014 #138

by the way, marym625 Dec 2014 #133

It's generally considered the prerogative of the particular oppressed group to whom such words Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #90

I still standby what I wrote TexasProgresive Dec 2014 #98

Thank you for telling me how I should respond to stuff thatis racial ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #110

The pot calling the pintobean Dec 2014 #118

What are you talking about? n/t 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #120

The Irish were viciously oppressed by their English overlords for centuries riderinthestorm Dec 2014 #19

Who HAS it worse JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #28

Uhm, I'm bi-racial living in the States...nt riderinthestorm Dec 2014 #32

Me too! JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #36

I pass. But if I ever dared to forget the horrific Irish troubles, I'd be whooped riderinthestorm Dec 2014 #40

I'll be good today rbrnmw Dec 2014 #26

Yeah - there's that. JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #37

I need to leave this thread or go all in lol rbrnmw Dec 2014 #38

ditto for me too. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #55

back at you rbrnmw Dec 2014 #58

As I recall. "white jazz" has been an issue for decades rogerashton Dec 2014 #6

You make a good point. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #92

The first person to be condemned for cultural appropriation -- Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #9

Except Carlton jen63 Dec 2014 #11

"...assimilation, not appropriation. Maybe you should figure out the difference." Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #12

The definition and it's jen63 Dec 2014 #13

To review -- Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #14

Your reply says more about you jen63 Dec 2014 #15

"Your reply says more about you" Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #20

The fact that you think that jen63 Dec 2014 #23

Assimilation implies a person is forced to act a certain way and that could be bad or not Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #33

You are ignorant of the fact jen63 Dec 2014 #44

"one cannot appropriate a dominant culture." Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #45

It's your choice to remain ignorant jen63 Dec 2014 #54

It's not ignorance, it's a value judgment. Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #64

That makes you ignorant jen63 Dec 2014 #67

If inclusiveness is ignorance then segregation would be wisdom. Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #69

I enjoyed your posts. I can't say it as well as upaloopa Dec 2014 #226

Thank-you. I'm genuinely appreciative. Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #231

Consider the source. kwassa Dec 2014 #235

Complains about assimilation are complaints about our racist society gollygee Dec 2014 #17

Was the character of Carlton forced to act as he did? I don't remember that from the show. Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #21

Depends on how YOU define the word forced. Careful now. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #42

As I noted elsewhere -- Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #43

you did not answer the question and that is what is duly noted. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #47

What question? You made declarative statements, not interrogatives. Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #49

The question was implied, mea culpa. I realize you don't do nuance very well. Please, Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #51

After reading Post #50 I see nothing there that changes my previous response. Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #56

Of course you don't see it. As I noted earlier you don't do nuance or (I am now adding) subtlety Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #61

I am not responsible for people who act coy so as to be disingenuous. Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #65

You shouldn't as you own That act. Coy, thy name is Nuclear Unicorn. Once more = Peace Out. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #72

I have given straight, direct answers -- albeit with a sprinkling of snark -- but at least I Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #78

that you don't get it = deliberate obtuseness. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #82

"you don't get it" Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #95

let me spell it out for you ... you don't get IT ... this OP which is (to your credit) Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #100

I "get" what people intend to mean when they speak of Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #154

Is that what's going on here? Because that person's posts are so removed from the topic Number23 Dec 2014 #162

And more of the same in #154 reply in this thread by Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #166

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2014 #46

If I understand correctly, the character Carlton Banks grew up in Bel Air California hughee99 Dec 2014 #30

" I'm not sure what he was doing was either cultural assimilation or appropriation." Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #35

assimilation of the culture that is in power in Bel Air. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #50

I believe this poster is being jen63 Dec 2014 #57

agreed and did and done and dueces. peace out! = Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #59

Right back atcha!! jen63 Dec 2014 #60

especially on a supposedly democratic, progressive, liberal message board - Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #63

Yup jen63 Dec 2014 #73

Something is thick around here, but I don't think it's racism. Comrade Grumpy Dec 2014 #84

What do you think it is? n/t 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #165

Are you saying if you don't buy into the upaloopa Dec 2014 #227

Either racist or ignorant, but then, the two travel together ... kwassa Dec 2014 #238

Wow! just wow! upaloopa Dec 2014 #269

What is "culture" if not the traditions, language, styles that you grew up with? hughee99 Dec 2014 #71

operative word here is COMPLETELY. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #74

So someone's culture is LARGELY defined by race, not other factors. hughee99 Dec 2014 #81

exactly. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #86

Culture is not genetic. FirstClassTicket Dec 2014 #126

Wait, are you seriously suggesting that the "first person to be condemed for cultural appropriatiom" Number23 Dec 2014 #148

I'm saying the character was an object for mockery based on his dress and mannerisms. Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #149

And how does that relate to this OP? Number23 Dec 2014 #152

Oh crap! It's the Post Patrol! Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #157

What's sad is that as dumb as this post it, it still added far more to the topic than your first one Number23 Dec 2014 #161

Hall Monitor!! AgingAmerican Dec 2014 #185

What about Steve Urkel? AgingAmerican Dec 2014 #188

Just like anything there's a line there. hollowdweller Dec 2014 #16

There was more to that article about belly dancing than DU'ers acknowledged... KittyWampus Dec 2014 #197

"The lack of cultural context for westerners practicing belly dancing." EX500rider Jan 2015 #272

Gotta love... 99Forever Dec 2014 #18

In fact if you were Native American you would be able to tell stories about when your ancestors jwirr Dec 2014 #22

Yes but other than the headdress issues and mascot name problems riderinthestorm Dec 2014 #24

Yes, my family is made up of several racial mixes including Native American, African American, jwirr Dec 2014 #27

I can relate! I'm bi-racial on my dad's side and an Irish citizen because of my mum riderinthestorm Dec 2014 #29

Sorry I came down so hard JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #39

No worries!! I missed the earlier threads which always makes the "next day" very touchy riderinthestorm Dec 2014 #41

I believe this is the thread that started this ball rolling: EX500rider Dec 2014 #112

'Don't appear to be' simply means Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #94

Was going to say that they actually laugh at them and make fun of them. I have lived with and now jwirr Dec 2014 #195

I'll be sure to tell my 18 yr old daughter that her NA friends have actually been mocking her riderinthestorm Dec 2014 #204

I think you're misinterpreting what he and I are talking about. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #215

Exactly. Genuine interest is acceptable and in fact welcomed. jwirr Dec 2014 #218

I was specifically thinking about the sweat lodge participation and use of herbals. Apparently we jwirr Dec 2014 #217

Just as in Alaska, Native Alaskans don't seem to mind Blue_In_AK Dec 2014 #113

My youngest daughter was riveted by NA culture/spirituality for 10+yrs riderinthestorm Dec 2014 #122

Some Native Americans do object to sweat lodges. IMO, the key is how something is represented KittyWampus Dec 2014 #201

Nope. It isn't easy at all here on DU riderinthestorm Dec 2014 #210

Your daughter is a curator? My degrees are in anthropology and art history... KittyWampus Dec 2014 #211

Actually she's got her MA in medieval archaeology! riderinthestorm Dec 2014 #213

:-D I've spent the last year reading about the Plantagenet family and early medieval England KittyWampus Dec 2014 #214

Ancestors? It's still going on. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #93

I am from NE MN and most of the Native children removed from their homes are placed in Native jwirr Dec 2014 #101

Sounds like MN is a bit more enlightened about such, then. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #107

Whole heartedly agree with you. That is not a good policy. jwirr Dec 2014 #114

AND AgingAmerican Dec 2014 #186

Assimilation is normal booley Dec 2014 #25

It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. dilby Dec 2014 #31

Well said. Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #48

not surprised you would agree. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #53

guessing you are a middling class white person. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #52

Why customerserviceguy Dec 2014 #66

You do bring up an interesting point about trolls. Peace out. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #70

Profiling is the new DU fad. pintobean Dec 2014 #91

Yes, apparently customerserviceguy Dec 2014 #97

So attack his race and gender LittleBlue Dec 2014 #76

That was an attack? Good lord. Surmising and guessing and polite conversation is now attacking. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #79

Yeah, because if I said something like "I'm guessing you're black and a woman" LittleBlue Dec 2014 #80

Such a post would be hidden in a nanosecond. Throd Dec 2014 #83

IF you said something like that I would tell you exactly what is my profile but, since you didn't, I Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #85

Thank you Boreal Dec 2014 #169

Middle class Jew and I don't flip out when I see non jews at the Deli or eating bagels. n/t dilby Dec 2014 #87

Good for you. The rest of your remark is best left at Peace out. Because = Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #88

But would you freak out with non-jews ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #182

No, not at all unless it's was worn in disrespect. dilby Dec 2014 #190

Black Hewbrew Israelite are NOT wearing them as FASHION ACCESSORIES ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #193

Appropriation / Misappropriation. KittyWampus Dec 2014 #202

I'm, honestly, undecided on the benefits/draw-backs on the "Appropriation" argument ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #207

I'm black and I would agree with the OP here. WestCoastLib Dec 2014 #103

point taken. However, I still think the word in the title shoud be assimilation and NOT Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #104

Appropriation is the first step of the process by which culture is mainstreamed WestCoastLib Dec 2014 #105

In my family we just run with AgingAmerican Dec 2014 #187

It seems that the appropriate thing to do would be to compliment the white person's cornrows, Nye Bevan Dec 2014 #198

this much I will give you for trying to understand what is happening ... let me fix your title line Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #77

Thankfully, more people are starting to think more than they used to. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #89

There's a difference between exchange and appropriation. yewberry Dec 2014 #96

That image is the perfect example of the smug "I'm so much more enlightned than you" Kurska Dec 2014 #137

Cultural appropriation is the new white privilege upaloopa Dec 2014 #99

Does Bo Derek even know what a hated figure she has become on DU, Nye Bevan Dec 2014 #199

We're not bright enough to have these conversations Prism Dec 2014 #102

As usual, an outstanding post, Prism. pintobean Dec 2014 #106

Just fine, thanks =) Prism Dec 2014 #142

My thoughts exactly, just much better stated. Throd Dec 2014 #111

good post annabanana Dec 2014 #117

Thank you. distantearlywarning Dec 2014 #121

Good post. The other thing I would add, re: music, etc- Warren DeMontague Dec 2014 #124

There isn't a more spectaculary wrongheaded example of so-called theft and appropriation than Elvis BeyondGeography Dec 2014 #134

Fair enough. Warren DeMontague Dec 2014 #145

It was definitely appropriation at the time Prism Dec 2014 #141

....I admit to being massively out of the loop. Warren DeMontague Dec 2014 #146

Well said Veruca Salt Dec 2014 #131

in another thread I mentioned that us gals would be offended by drag queens Skittles Dec 2014 #150

WHO has said "white people can't enjoy anime"? Looks like you're huffing and puffing down a strawman alp227 Dec 2014 #151

From your first link -- Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #164

Of course there's no overseeing authority. But do people not have the right to preserve their own alp227 Dec 2014 #168

"do people not have the right to preserve their own culture?" Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #170

I'm not gonna answer loaded questions like alp227 Dec 2014 #171

Okay. Fine. I'll answer it. Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #173

Appreciation and mockery are way different. alp227 Dec 2014 #176

So suddenly the complaint has become one of market saturation. Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #181

"preserve the integrity of their genre through actual talent..like Eminem" EX500rider Dec 2014 #225

Damn, I forgot. Of course Eminem has a history of violent/misogynistic lyrics. alp227 Dec 2014 #232

I'm very familiar with the anime community, but your article begs a question. Prism Dec 2014 #247

It's your opinion if you think it's good that heterosexuals appropriate gay culture, alp227 Dec 2014 #264

We're an agreement Prism Dec 2014 #270

"intellectualism has been dumbed down" Boreal Dec 2014 #174

Ugh, don't remind me of the Tumblr "social justice warriors". Odin2005 Dec 2014 #192

Or people feeling like they're "doing something" Prism Dec 2014 #248

Actually you do see that. unrepentant progress Dec 2014 #203

Weeaboos are . . . yeah . . . Prism Dec 2014 #249

...kawaii? You were going to say weeaboos are so kawaii? ;-) unrepentant progress Dec 2014 #254

Well, now! Prism Dec 2014 #258

Prism, it isn't just "mocking" that distinguished mis-appropriation. Financial exploitation KittyWampus Dec 2014 #208

But did Katy Perry exploit it for profit? Prism Dec 2014 #255

Define "generalized american culture". Until we do that, we can't identify stolen goods. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2014 #224

The pseudo educated in the media Prism Dec 2014 #257

When was the US ever "an inclusive society?" rjsquirrel Dec 2014 #108

+1 gollygee Dec 2014 #143

It was a society BainsBane Dec 2014 #144

There are still people, mostly white and male, all in this thread with the stupidest comments Number23 Dec 2014 #155

You'll note that the same people BainsBane Dec 2014 #158

This is one of the MANY topics that DU fails on. Jezebel has been doing lots of articles Number23 Dec 2014 #163

Which is appropos of nothing Prism Dec 2014 #251

{Sigh} n/t 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #116

You just need to learn BainsBane Dec 2014 #160

Yeah, cause I totally said that. Kurska Dec 2014 #221

I beg to differ BainsBane Dec 2014 #222

How on earth you got that I was telling them how to be black escapes me as always. Kurska Dec 2014 #230

You could do the same with the discussions about cultural appropriation BainsBane Dec 2014 #256

Cultural exchange is nothing new. However militant societies destroy goodwill. Rex Dec 2014 #119

Is integrating stealing though? Prism Dec 2014 #252

It is hard to understand imo. The mindset of someone using other than common sense Rex Dec 2014 #260

Post removed Post removed Dec 2014 #125

People who think of themselves as "left wing" ... Joe Magarac Dec 2014 #127

^^THIS. Boreal Dec 2014 #177

Ah more, "We can't talk about racism until there are no poor white people." gollygee Dec 2014 #236

and, "liberals, especially professors, are the real racists" Doctor_J Dec 2014 #261

I was listening to this right before I clicked on the thread.. Fumesucker Dec 2014 #136

I was so offended by that, I put my foot through my computer screen, Nye Bevan Dec 2014 #200

Cultural segregation, indeed. It happens in a country where everyone comes from everywhere else. ancianita Dec 2014 #139

British Museum Boreal Dec 2014 #178

And the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York should send all its mummies back to Egypt? Nye Bevan Dec 2014 #196

I'm sure some Egyptians could use the fuel jberryhill Dec 2014 #209

Thanks. Nye Bevan Dec 2014 #212

A good first step would be Boreal Dec 2014 #229

They belonged to an Egypt which no longer exists jberryhill Dec 2014 #243

I'm aware the looting of the museum Boreal Dec 2014 #245

An interesting sub-topic, this museum stuff, but not relevant to LIVE cultures' sharing issues. ancianita Dec 2014 #265

That's where I am Prism Dec 2014 #253

It can be inclusive IVoteDFL Dec 2014 #140

I saw a post recently at DU that said that Doctor_J Dec 2014 #147

Those posts by whites that say "EVERYONE is racist" Nye Bevan Dec 2014 #156

That's an impossibility. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #216

It seems BainsBane Dec 2014 #159

There wasn't much to reflect on Doctor_J Dec 2014 #167

"There wasn't much to reflect on" BainsBane Dec 2014 #172

And yet not a single outraged rec'r was able to point to a single one of the Doctor_J Dec 2014 #175

Hey Doc, have you noticed the many "Name Removed" posts on DU, lately? countryjake Dec 2014 #189

Thank you I will check this one out Doctor_J Dec 2014 #228

It was not that they aren't able BainsBane Dec 2014 #223

lol I'm sure many here are shocked Number23 Dec 2014 #153

I suppose it goes to the questions of how much respect was and is shown in the appropriation Ken Burch Dec 2014 #179

Well stated ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #183

Excellent post..I have an idea of a thread, Annie get your gun? no randys1 Dec 2014 #205

"how much acknowledgment of the cultural sources(including financial respect) was and is given." Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #206

It is not about Katy Perry's cornrows. It is about Iggy Azalea. kwassa Dec 2014 #244

Hah! I was just about to mention Iggy Azalea unrepentant progress Dec 2014 #259

"she's not trying to highlight Indian poverty" Does she have too? EX500rider Jan 2015 #273

Like Al Jolson? Starry Messenger Dec 2014 #191

How much cash are you allowed to make? brooklynite Dec 2014 #194

Have people of color ever seen cultural appropriation as a sign of an inclusive society gollygee Dec 2014 #233

Not really. "Appropriation" has a negative denotation and connotation. WinkyDink Dec 2014 #250

OK, so you're telling black people Feral Child Dec 2014 #262

I can think of any number of eye rolling examples of cultural appropriation Matariki Dec 2014 #263

Yes. The inequity of access to high profit from using another's cultural style without consent. ancianita Dec 2014 #267

Regarding iggy ecstatic Dec 2014 #266