General Discussion

JonLP24

(29,892 posts)

238. Here it is - fully

Mon Apr 23, 2012, 05:08 PM

Apr 2012

2011 Florida Statutes CHAPTER 776 JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE

776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or
(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.

The section you quoted is for the deadly force, for use of fists, Martin needs to reasonably believe there is imminent use of unlawful force.

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Enough of the bs. Let's cut to the chase, shall we? [View all] CatWoman Apr 2012 OP

From what I can tell the apologists value "gun rights" over human life. morningfog Apr 2012 #1

Its not about guns, its about entitlement. Zimmerman felt entitled...... marble falls Apr 2012 #3

I don't disagree, but why does it seem most of the defenders/apologists/concern-ers morningfog Apr 2012 #9

NRA and gun manufacturers strive to scare the shit out of the public. jerseyjack Apr 2012 #15

Going to check that movie out. thanks...n/t zeemike Apr 2012 #19

I just added it to my queue duhneece Apr 2012 #232

um, I'm thinking that there is a difference between blueamy66 Apr 2012 #180

It isn't about gun rights obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #63

Apologists have no place on a jury. xtraxritical Apr 2012 #80

Actually Trayvon DID belong in the neighborhood. His father--who is black--lived there! Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2012 #2

you and I understand that CatWoman Apr 2012 #4

I know, and that's because they want to make excuses for Zimmerman's behavior to Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2012 #5

It's the father's grilfriend who lives there pinboy3niner Apr 2012 #6

O.K., thanks for the correction, but you're right: Trayvon did belong in the neighborhood. Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2012 #7

It's the girlfriends house but the Father lives with the girlfriend. vaberella Apr 2012 #12

Doesn't matter one whit...I ride my bike through neighborhoods I can't claim rustydog Apr 2012 #269

Even if absolutely NO ONE connected to Trayvon lived in that neighborhood.... LynneSin Apr 2012 #22

Yep. ronnie624 Apr 2012 #69

DURec KG Apr 2012 #8

No need even for a trial. nt Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #10

Do you feel like explaining that? LaurenG Apr 2012 #13

What's to explain? Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #16

and why waste keystrokes CatWoman Apr 2012 #18

So you natually agree that a trial is a waste of time. nt Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #20

no CatWoman Apr 2012 #23

The mob generally does not like the mirror. nt Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #24

nor does the NRA mob Whisp Apr 2012 #28

Not sure the NRA has stated an opinion either way. Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #34

so marshall gaines Apr 2012 #57

"Help me or I'll shoot" CatWoman Apr 2012 #58

Was that in the transcript? nt Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #66

might as well be CatWoman Apr 2012 #122

So he has to be ruled guilty. nt Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #65

So what you are Meiko Apr 2012 #71

Guilty brush Apr 2012 #79

I think that is a Meiko Apr 2012 #107

No, the poster did NOT say that HangOnKids Apr 2012 #90

I didn't put any words in anyone's mouth Meiko Apr 2012 #111

Tip, when asking for clarification, you say " I am not sure I understand, can you explain?" HangOnKids Apr 2012 #120

OK Meiko Apr 2012 #283

More Assumptions From You HangOnKids Apr 2012 #295

well marshall gaines Apr 2012 #164

The message will be based on the facts at trial. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #87

This isn't a mob. ronnie624 Apr 2012 #70

Do you think it's ok to cast vile aspersions upon people who urge caution AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #89

No I do not. ronnie624 Apr 2012 #116

Is it? AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #125

Years ago, ronnie624 Apr 2012 #137

Possibly true. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #145

I anxiously await the trial. n/t ronnie624 Apr 2012 #149

I am not an apologist for Zimmerman, but how do you know that Zimmerman JDPriestly Apr 2012 #273

I see an obvious and relevant different between those who urge caution and those who defend LanternWaste Apr 2012 #143

That's the thing, I don't see anyone 'defending', and I don't see anyone like the OP qualifying AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #146

Would that it was the only form it takes, but alas no... LanternWaste Apr 2012 #171

If my eyes were closed, I wouldn't be able to read your post, now would I? AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #174

You are keeping things into perspective. So far it looks bleak for Zimmerman, but we have to let our The Wielding Truth Apr 2012 #147

Ok so here's the scoop LaurenG Apr 2012 #25

So you agree that a trial is a complete waste of taxpayer dollars? Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #27

Have you not heard the dispatchers tape like the rest of the world has? LaurenG Apr 2012 #30

I have. And that is not in it. Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #31

Here is a transcript LaurenG Apr 2012 #35

But the actual words 'stand down' weren't there Kingofalldems Apr 2012 #40

:) nt LaurenG Apr 2012 #43

That's quite a forceful command. nt Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #44

Get over yourself. He was told they didn't NEED him to do that LaurenG Apr 2012 #45

But they did not command him to do anything either way. Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #47

"we don't need you to do that" noiretextatique Apr 2012 #101

but not as forceful as CatWoman Apr 2012 #124

Not forceful, but certainly not open to interpretation, either. LanternWaste Apr 2012 #144

You edited this and you still got it wrong LOL HangOnKids Apr 2012 #95

You got me. Swype. Good one? nt Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #97

Yeah, Snake, we KNOW - a sociopath showed years ago he shouldn't be ALLOWED blm Apr 2012 #64

I am pissed. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #91

There it is RZM Apr 2012 #109

I said even if you GAVE Zimmerman the punch to the face he's still an irresponsible gun owner blm Apr 2012 #132

I think I asked you this upthread but AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #153

But the fact that, knowing he had a gun, Zimmerman decided to follow Trayvon Martin JDPriestly Apr 2012 #274

Stop being rational and jump on the Zimmerman-is-clearly-a-murderer bandwagon! Vattel Apr 2012 #185

What he is clearly: an irresponsible gun owner with mental problems blm Apr 2012 #250

Sorry, but, I have no sympathy for a guy who feels he needs to use a gun against an unarmed teen who blm Apr 2012 #126

I have no qualms with your interpretation. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #127

Wow - a scared kid being followed IS what happened. No MAN or gun owner with the blm Apr 2012 #130

So you were there? AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #150

I would be okay if he beat the shit ut of Zimmerman obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #204

That's not how the law is written. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #215

Here it is - fully JonLP24 Apr 2012 #238

True. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #241

That is how it's written obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #253

Oh, much more nuanced than that. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #259

+1000 apparently, young black males cannot be afraid of creepy white men with guns noiretextatique Apr 2012 #196

Can you point to someone in this thread suggesting such a foul thing? AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #198

yes, read the thread eom noiretextatique Apr 2012 #207

So, you can't. Ok. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #216

do your own work eom noiretextatique Apr 2012 #268

Clearly you don't understand, the burden of proof lies with the one making the claim. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #278

I'm sure you apply this standard in all situations. U4ikLefty Apr 2012 #280

I do. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #282

so noble U4ikLefty Apr 2012 #284

On This Like White On Rice, Sir, These Selfless, Noble Types.... The Magistrate Apr 2012 #286

Oh, you can't possibly do worse than the people who accused me of being a friend to AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #287

and courageous U4ikLefty Apr 2012 #290

But we do know how the confrontation started Oilwellian Apr 2012 #170

Doesn't answer an enormous number of questions AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #172

If a gun owner can't take even a punch in the face from a teen without drawing his gun and shooting blm Apr 2012 #177

Your attitude would make any defense attorney smile. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #178

I don't give a shot what you have to say - I'm on a message forum where we post what WE think blm Apr 2012 #179

Can you point to a post where I say what he did was legal or moral? AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #183

And who said that? leftynyc Apr 2012 #94

that being the only inference you are able to make from the OP says quite a bit more about you than LanternWaste Apr 2012 #139

initially there was apparently NO NEED FOR AN ARREST!!!! Skittles Apr 2012 #182

Investigating officer submitted a formal recommendation of charges to the DA. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #200

Where has anyone suggested that? morningfog Apr 2012 #272

It Emerges, Ma'am, From That Miasma Of The White Right's Mind In Which Blacks Are A Privileged Class The Magistrate Apr 2012 #275

Personally I believe the NRA has a lot to do with what is being posted on line the last few TBF Apr 2012 #11

Sure the nra has some influence madokie Apr 2012 #26

I don't buy the "it's human nature" crap - TBF Apr 2012 #36

Whatever madokie Apr 2012 #41

That's fine TBF Apr 2012 #72

+1 freshwest Apr 2012 #208

Right on Cat madokie Apr 2012 #14

I appreciate that there are DUers here that enjoy gun ownership and want to protect... LynneSin Apr 2012 #21

I totally agree with you madokie Apr 2012 #29

We DUers who own guns aren't the ones defending him obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #67

And what, exactly, about the 'gungeon' are you suggesting? AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #92

I believe obamanut2012 was referring to this-- KansDem Apr 2012 #151

Yes, I know what the Gungeon is. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #154

I am suggesting what I am suggesting obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #203

Fair enough. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #205

And cowards chasing 'kids' that look suspicious. nt Lost-in-FL Apr 2012 #162

+1 freshwest Apr 2012 #188

I fail to see how this was "in cold blood" Recursion Apr 2012 #32

Whatever you think madokie Apr 2012 #38

Maybe we're meaning different things "in cold blood" has a specific legal meaning Recursion Apr 2012 #53

Stand Your Ground Laws = Legalized Human Hunting LynneSin Apr 2012 #17

Not really. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #93

Trayvon's family wouldn't Skittles Apr 2012 #271

Care to back that up? AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #281

True Enough, Ma'am The Magistrate Apr 2012 #33

No shit. enki23 Apr 2012 #37

Hi Enk CatWoman Apr 2012 #49

OP is spoiling for a fight... and she's standing her ground! Bruce Wayne Apr 2012 #39

Some have been PPRoni'd pinboy3niner Apr 2012 #42

Help a poor billionaire and define "PPR" for me Bruce Wayne Apr 2012 #46

PPR = Posting Privileges Revoked pinboy3niner Apr 2012 #48

thank God!! CatWoman Apr 2012 #51

oh schucks fascisthunter Apr 2012 #68

It appears to me "you" are the one spoiling for a fight CatWoman Apr 2012 #50

Tooshay, my arch-nemisis! Bruce Wayne Apr 2012 #54

"Help me or I'll shoot" CatWoman Apr 2012 #59

I completely understand your feeling shimonitanegi Apr 2012 #52

Nope, but DonCoquixote Apr 2012 #55

I'm with you 100 percent--- trumad Apr 2012 #56

word, Tru CatWoman Apr 2012 #60

It's as if a part of them is saying, "There but for the grace of ecstatic Apr 2012 #61

Damn straight!!! WI_DEM Apr 2012 #62

I don't agree with what he did TomClash Apr 2012 #73

This is as an unsurprising condition, as it is poorly understood stupidicus Apr 2012 #74

let's not, and say we did hfojvt Apr 2012 #75

What a load of shit. Zimmerman has a POLICE record as an aggresive thug saras Apr 2012 #76

"I suppose hfojvt Apr 2012 #84

not with you: you believe the implausible" zimmerman's version of events noiretextatique Apr 2012 #112

it seems to me hfojvt Apr 2012 #222

Not so much reading minds as it is reading obvious tells. LanternWaste Apr 2012 #148

otherwise known as hfojvt Apr 2012 #211

Yes JonLP24 Apr 2012 #244

that's not much of a description hfojvt Apr 2012 #292

Ridiculous JonLP24 Apr 2012 #297

I think this is the most illiberal thread I've seen. newrocker Apr 2012 #77

Only If Your Definition Of Liberal, Sir, Is 'A Man Who Won't Even take His Own Side In A Quarrel." The Magistrate Apr 2012 #82

leave "liberal" out of it paulk Apr 2012 #83

Post removed Post removed Apr 2012 #85

What Grace What Style What Class HangOnKids Apr 2012 #99

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Apr 2012 #160

But she is not a juror but a citizen like many others that are... Lost-in-FL Apr 2012 #169

I've yet to see only one apologist, and he/she is on every thread, loudsue Apr 2012 #78

Would You Be Referring To This Fella, Ma'am? The Magistrate Apr 2012 #81

I would be, Sir... loudsue Apr 2012 #108

Thought You Might, Ma'am: Been Having a Bit Of Low Sport With Him This Morning.... The Magistrate Apr 2012 #115

You got that link yet? Been about half a working day. Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #206

Damn, Sydney: You Are A Glutton For Punishment The Magistrate Apr 2012 #214

Somehow I didn't think that you would have it. TTFN. nt Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #218

Amazing: People Looking For Laughs Should Follow The Link In My 115 Above The Magistrate Apr 2012 #221

I encourage them to follow it too. Thanks! nt Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #226

As Observed, Kherido, You Are a Glutton For Punishment The Magistrate Apr 2012 #230

Whatever you say. Anyone ever tell you that you remind them of Bert Lahr? nt Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #231

Fewer Than Have Suggested You Resemble Peter Lorre, Son.... The Magistrate Apr 2012 #234

Doubtful. Both were great though. nt Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #235

And You are Not, So There Is Not Really Any Comparison, Sweetie The Magistrate Apr 2012 #236

I think its great that you think I am sweet, but I am a very happily married man. nt Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #239

That Is Not What Your Wife Says, Honey The Magistrate Apr 2012 #252

... Son of Gob Apr 2012 #258

Do tell? nt Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #260

+1 obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #254

I hae not heard that phrase for ages..love it! dixiegrrrrl Apr 2012 #159

Right on, CW. Cleita Apr 2012 #86

If Zimmerman had never confronted Trayvon no crime would have been committed by either. Kablooie Apr 2012 #88

I've been chastized for saying we should give him a fair trial and wait for all the facts 4th law of robotics Apr 2012 #96

+1 AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #100

i an more interested in justice for Tayvon Martin and his family noiretextatique Apr 2012 #102

I don't think anyone is getting justice by trying Zimmerman in the media 4th law of robotics Apr 2012 #104

oh please.... as if what we say has anything to do with the results of this case fascisthunter Apr 2012 #110

Ever heard of a tainted Jury pool? 4th law of robotics Apr 2012 #113

really.. good, I hope Zimmerman goes to jail fascisthunter Apr 2012 #114

As a private citizen I don't care what you think 4th law of robotics Apr 2012 #117

then you don't need to worry about what we here say, do you? fascisthunter Apr 2012 #119

Sigh 4th law of robotics Apr 2012 #123

And There Are Plenty Of Venues Where Zimmerman Is Being Praised As A Hero And Defender Of Right, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2012 #118

That neither of those preconceived notions have any place in a court of law? 4th law of robotics Apr 2012 #121

And This Is A Court Of Law, Sir? The Magistrate Apr 2012 #129

"If there is to be tainting, it had better come from both sides" 4th law of robotics Apr 2012 #131

So You Are Only Taking Your Act To Left Sites, Then, Fella? The Magistrate Apr 2012 #135

I am joeglow3 Apr 2012 #141

Animal Instincts AND Mob Mentality? Say It Ain't So, Joe, Say It Ain't So.... The Magistrate Apr 2012 #142

You can add maturity level of some, as well. joeglow3 Apr 2012 #161

You Head On Down Here And Spread Sweet Reason And Maturity, Joe: Be Sure And Bring Gum.... The Magistrate Apr 2012 #219

Same logic my 3 & 6 year old children use joeglow3 Apr 2012 #220

Perhaps You Should Learn From Them, Fella: If They Actually Do Use Logic, You Might Pick Up How To The Magistrate Apr 2012 #223

My convictions are not based on the actions of others joeglow3 Apr 2012 #227

Any Of Them Felonies, Joe? Always Nice To Meet a Fella With Convictions The Magistrate Apr 2012 #228

Most foul. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #156

No, Sir, It Is Where You Should Acknowledge No One Gives A Damn What You Think Of Them The Magistrate Apr 2012 #217

No worries. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #225

ask casey anthony about that frylock Apr 2012 #186

Hence, all of our opinions and discussions (including, but not limited to yours and mine), are merel LanternWaste Apr 2012 #152

justus system noiretextatique Apr 2012 #189

Did the police bungle it? AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #155

You're not alone. nt Skip Intro Apr 2012 #167

Oh yes... playing the 'fair trial' card and Gitmo... and waiting patiently for a Hitler comparison. Lost-in-FL Apr 2012 #176

Exactly -- Casey Anthony's trial is a perfect example obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #210

Exactly -- because it was a blonde child it mattered Lost-in-FL Apr 2012 #229

It's not my logic obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #251

I see your point clearly now and apologize for 'jumping the gun' on you... no pun... Lost-in-FL Apr 2012 #263

So if it worked out ok in some other instance that means it's a good general policy? 4th law of robotics Apr 2012 #296

the entitlement of some people knows no end noiretextatique Apr 2012 #98

Exactly BumRushDaShow Apr 2012 #138

yep...the only saving grace is noiretextatique Apr 2012 #191

Exactly! K&R whatchamacallit Apr 2012 #103

zimmerman will have a more than fair trial because of the sanford police department's failure noiretextatique Apr 2012 #105

The facts are clear enough already DaveJ Apr 2012 #134

i agree...and his excuses are pathetically transparent noiretextatique Apr 2012 #192

True enough. Someone needs to go after the bloody cops. vaberella Apr 2012 #181

indeed noiretextatique Apr 2012 #193

Zimm's own admission that he "didn't know whether (Trayvon) was armed" librechik Apr 2012 #106

And, if you thought they were armed, why chase them??? obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #213

Warning - Graphic language NNN0LHI Apr 2012 #128

+ 1000 abelenkpe Apr 2012 #133

+1000000000000000000000000000 noiretextatique Apr 2012 #195

Almost every one of them have been TSd. Rex Apr 2012 #201

All I ever wanted were charges and a fair trial. JohnnyRingo Apr 2012 #136

I am terrified that the state has over-reached in this case, going for Murder 2. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #163

manslaughter is also covered in the charges as I recall TorchTheWitch Apr 2012 #277

If it is, it's not in the affadavit. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #279

from what I understand it's automatic TorchTheWitch Apr 2012 #294

That might explain why this didn't happen in the Anthony trial. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #298

Only a court of law may do that, hence, no one has... LanternWaste Apr 2012 #173

Believing in things like due process, evidence and fair trials does not a Zimmerman apologist make. Skip Intro Apr 2012 #140

Everyone I know of here wants due process, evidence and fair trials NNN0LHI Apr 2012 #157

Well I keep seeing DUers who defend those things Skip Intro Apr 2012 #166

Regardless of whether anyone on the board does or does not have "all the facts", LanternWaste Apr 2012 #175

right...so all the hand-wringing about a "fair trial" for the murderer noiretextatique Apr 2012 #199

Perhaps you'd care, then, to define "Zimmerman Apologist" Skip Intro Apr 2012 #267

making statements like "it's not illegal to follow someone" frylock Apr 2012 #187

Bullshit. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #190

awwwwwhhhhh did someone get their wittle feewings hurt? frylock Apr 2012 #233

I didn't see anyone else who stated it in this thread prior to your post. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #237

it most certainly does: it is blaming the victim, plain and simple noiretextatique Apr 2012 #197

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Apr 2012 #158

If you see me in the neighborhood or anywhere else my PSD is on my side. ileus Apr 2012 #165

Excellent! Phlem Apr 2012 #168

CORRECT Skittles Apr 2012 #184

Killing a child in cold blood is never acceptable and Zimm will go to jail Rex Apr 2012 #194

Hate to spoil the parade but from this limpets perspective...that asshole might walk free opihimoimoi Apr 2012 #202

true...he may walk from the criminal charge noiretextatique Apr 2012 #212

Depends. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #224

100% correct malaise Apr 2012 #209

probably 2 foolish people made 2 foolish mistakes karnac Apr 2012 #240

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Apr 2012 #243

How pretty! karnac Apr 2012 #245

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Apr 2012 #246

Actually quite true karnac Apr 2012 #247

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Apr 2012 #257

Now your thread makes more sense JonLP24 Apr 2012 #248

So, Trayvon Martin was a fool and made an error in his judgment? obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #255

With you on this one. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #289

So Trayvon made the mistake of going to the store and walking home? neverforget Apr 2012 #270

And had the police arrested Zimmerman right away and charged him, would he be a pariah now? Quixote1818 Apr 2012 #288

CatWoman, you never disappoint! Iris Apr 2012 #242

Zimmerman is a loser but there's a legal system for a reason... progress2k12nbynd Apr 2012 #249

Gosh, insulting Al Sharpton, and for what reason? obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #256

De Rigueur For These Poseur Types, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2012 #261

Yup obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #262

I Do Not Much Like That One Myself, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2012 #264

That's a good post obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #265

A person doesn't have to be guilty of a crime to be an ass hole Quixote1818 Apr 2012 #291

I will never forget.... ProudProgressiveNow Apr 2012 #266

I've read many aplogist's posts on this subject. shimonitanegi Apr 2012 #276

Spot on! Quixote1818 Apr 2012 #293

Right on catwoman. DevonRex Apr 2012 #285