General Discussion

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)

154. I "get" what people intend to mean when they speak of

Sun Dec 28, 2014, 06:34 PM

Dec 2014

assimilation, appropriation and whatnot.

What I'm not getting is how the example I provided can be shown to be an example of assimilation and -- if it is not assimilation -- then how can it be anything except appropriation.

Generally, the argument for "it's not appropriation when Group X does it" is because Group X has traditionally been oppressed. However, that argument doesn't hold when the characters' back-stories are examined. The character of Carlton banks isn't a victim; he's an object of ridicule and some people choose to lose their minds when this obvious fact is pointed out.

I can't even figure out HOW pointing this out offends the narrative of cultural appropriation. It doesn't detract from either side. People just decided it does and they insist on ranting.

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I remember when "cultural appropriation" was seen as a sign of an inclusive society [View all] Kurska Dec 2014 OP

Evidently you think your own judgment supercedes that of the experience of BainsBane Dec 2014 #1

It is perfectly valid argument when an individual claims to own an entire genre of music via racial Kurska Dec 2014 #2

You could start by reading BainsBane Dec 2014 #3

Where did you get that I'm talking about you specifically? Kurska Dec 2014 #4

That would be your use of the word "you" BainsBane Dec 2014 #62

I was referring to individuals who think they own an entire genre of music in exclusive domain Kurska Dec 2014 #219

It's pretty obvious that this thread was spurred by the Azalia Banks-Iggy Azelea thread. Ken Burch Dec 2014 #180

I will never accept that something is okay for one race and not another. Kurska Dec 2014 #220

That isn't racism. You need to reconsider the definition. kwassa Dec 2014 #234

One thing for one race, another thing for another race Kurska Dec 2014 #237

Nope. kwassa Dec 2014 #239

I actively reject being part of any solution that treats races different, based on their race. Kurska Dec 2014 #240

So then you are opposed to affirmative action as well? n/t gollygee Dec 2014 #241

I'm gay. I grew up in a small southern town. Kurska Dec 2014 #242

Lol and it shows rjsquirrel Jan 2015 #271

True racism depends on power. Your individual rejection of this is immaterial. kwassa Dec 2014 #246

Also gollygee Dec 2014 #268

wow, a black american enka singer, and a popular one. that's pretty amazing. NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #75

His mother is Japanese rjsquirrel Dec 2014 #109

He grew up black in the US, speaking English. MY mother was German; doesn't mean I sing volkslieder. NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #115

Welcome Back! AgingAmerican Dec 2014 #184

Interesting JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #5

Should the Irish claim the use of Mammy is "cultural appropriation"? TexasProgresive Dec 2014 #7

Ask the Ghost of Margaret Mitchell or read a book by Melissa Harris Perry JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #8

I didn't say that I never knew of the word just never heard it while growing up. TexasProgresive Dec 2014 #10

It is an archetype of black women JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #34

Amen. bravenak Dec 2014 #68

I understand what you are saying marym625 Dec 2014 #123

A ton of bricks might come down on me for this JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #128

No ton of bricks marym625 Dec 2014 #129

His parents were very focused on formality and education JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #130

makes me wonder marym625 Dec 2014 #132

They knew JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #135

smart family marym625 Dec 2014 #138

by the way, marym625 Dec 2014 #133

It's generally considered the prerogative of the particular oppressed group to whom such words Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #90

I still standby what I wrote TexasProgresive Dec 2014 #98

Thank you for telling me how I should respond to stuff thatis racial ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #110

The pot calling the pintobean Dec 2014 #118

What are you talking about? n/t 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #120

The Irish were viciously oppressed by their English overlords for centuries riderinthestorm Dec 2014 #19

Who HAS it worse JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #28

Uhm, I'm bi-racial living in the States...nt riderinthestorm Dec 2014 #32

Me too! JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #36

I pass. But if I ever dared to forget the horrific Irish troubles, I'd be whooped riderinthestorm Dec 2014 #40

I'll be good today rbrnmw Dec 2014 #26

Yeah - there's that. JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #37

I need to leave this thread or go all in lol rbrnmw Dec 2014 #38

ditto for me too. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #55

back at you rbrnmw Dec 2014 #58

As I recall. "white jazz" has been an issue for decades rogerashton Dec 2014 #6

You make a good point. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #92

The first person to be condemned for cultural appropriation -- Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #9

Except Carlton jen63 Dec 2014 #11

"...assimilation, not appropriation. Maybe you should figure out the difference." Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #12

The definition and it's jen63 Dec 2014 #13

To review -- Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #14

Your reply says more about you jen63 Dec 2014 #15

"Your reply says more about you" Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #20

The fact that you think that jen63 Dec 2014 #23

Assimilation implies a person is forced to act a certain way and that could be bad or not Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #33

You are ignorant of the fact jen63 Dec 2014 #44

"one cannot appropriate a dominant culture." Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #45

It's your choice to remain ignorant jen63 Dec 2014 #54

It's not ignorance, it's a value judgment. Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #64

That makes you ignorant jen63 Dec 2014 #67

If inclusiveness is ignorance then segregation would be wisdom. Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #69

I enjoyed your posts. I can't say it as well as upaloopa Dec 2014 #226

Thank-you. I'm genuinely appreciative. Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #231

Consider the source. kwassa Dec 2014 #235

Complains about assimilation are complaints about our racist society gollygee Dec 2014 #17

Was the character of Carlton forced to act as he did? I don't remember that from the show. Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #21

Depends on how YOU define the word forced. Careful now. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #42

As I noted elsewhere -- Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #43

you did not answer the question and that is what is duly noted. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #47

What question? You made declarative statements, not interrogatives. Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #49

The question was implied, mea culpa. I realize you don't do nuance very well. Please, Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #51

After reading Post #50 I see nothing there that changes my previous response. Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #56

Of course you don't see it. As I noted earlier you don't do nuance or (I am now adding) subtlety Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #61

I am not responsible for people who act coy so as to be disingenuous. Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #65

You shouldn't as you own That act. Coy, thy name is Nuclear Unicorn. Once more = Peace Out. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #72

I have given straight, direct answers -- albeit with a sprinkling of snark -- but at least I Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #78

that you don't get it = deliberate obtuseness. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #82

"you don't get it" Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #95

let me spell it out for you ... you don't get IT ... this OP which is (to your credit) Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #100

I "get" what people intend to mean when they speak of Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #154

Is that what's going on here? Because that person's posts are so removed from the topic Number23 Dec 2014 #162

And more of the same in #154 reply in this thread by Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #166

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2014 #46

If I understand correctly, the character Carlton Banks grew up in Bel Air California hughee99 Dec 2014 #30

" I'm not sure what he was doing was either cultural assimilation or appropriation." Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #35

assimilation of the culture that is in power in Bel Air. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #50

I believe this poster is being jen63 Dec 2014 #57

agreed and did and done and dueces. peace out! = Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #59

Right back atcha!! jen63 Dec 2014 #60

especially on a supposedly democratic, progressive, liberal message board - Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #63

Yup jen63 Dec 2014 #73

Something is thick around here, but I don't think it's racism. Comrade Grumpy Dec 2014 #84

What do you think it is? n/t 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #165

Are you saying if you don't buy into the upaloopa Dec 2014 #227

Either racist or ignorant, but then, the two travel together ... kwassa Dec 2014 #238

Wow! just wow! upaloopa Dec 2014 #269

What is "culture" if not the traditions, language, styles that you grew up with? hughee99 Dec 2014 #71

operative word here is COMPLETELY. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #74

So someone's culture is LARGELY defined by race, not other factors. hughee99 Dec 2014 #81

exactly. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #86

Culture is not genetic. FirstClassTicket Dec 2014 #126

Wait, are you seriously suggesting that the "first person to be condemed for cultural appropriatiom" Number23 Dec 2014 #148

I'm saying the character was an object for mockery based on his dress and mannerisms. Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #149

And how does that relate to this OP? Number23 Dec 2014 #152

Oh crap! It's the Post Patrol! Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #157

What's sad is that as dumb as this post it, it still added far more to the topic than your first one Number23 Dec 2014 #161

Hall Monitor!! AgingAmerican Dec 2014 #185

What about Steve Urkel? AgingAmerican Dec 2014 #188

Just like anything there's a line there. hollowdweller Dec 2014 #16

There was more to that article about belly dancing than DU'ers acknowledged... KittyWampus Dec 2014 #197

"The lack of cultural context for westerners practicing belly dancing." EX500rider Jan 2015 #272

Gotta love... 99Forever Dec 2014 #18

In fact if you were Native American you would be able to tell stories about when your ancestors jwirr Dec 2014 #22

Yes but other than the headdress issues and mascot name problems riderinthestorm Dec 2014 #24

Yes, my family is made up of several racial mixes including Native American, African American, jwirr Dec 2014 #27

I can relate! I'm bi-racial on my dad's side and an Irish citizen because of my mum riderinthestorm Dec 2014 #29

Sorry I came down so hard JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #39

No worries!! I missed the earlier threads which always makes the "next day" very touchy riderinthestorm Dec 2014 #41

I believe this is the thread that started this ball rolling: EX500rider Dec 2014 #112

'Don't appear to be' simply means Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #94

Was going to say that they actually laugh at them and make fun of them. I have lived with and now jwirr Dec 2014 #195

I'll be sure to tell my 18 yr old daughter that her NA friends have actually been mocking her riderinthestorm Dec 2014 #204

I think you're misinterpreting what he and I are talking about. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #215

Exactly. Genuine interest is acceptable and in fact welcomed. jwirr Dec 2014 #218

I was specifically thinking about the sweat lodge participation and use of herbals. Apparently we jwirr Dec 2014 #217

Just as in Alaska, Native Alaskans don't seem to mind Blue_In_AK Dec 2014 #113

My youngest daughter was riveted by NA culture/spirituality for 10+yrs riderinthestorm Dec 2014 #122

Some Native Americans do object to sweat lodges. IMO, the key is how something is represented KittyWampus Dec 2014 #201

Nope. It isn't easy at all here on DU riderinthestorm Dec 2014 #210

Your daughter is a curator? My degrees are in anthropology and art history... KittyWampus Dec 2014 #211

Actually she's got her MA in medieval archaeology! riderinthestorm Dec 2014 #213

:-D I've spent the last year reading about the Plantagenet family and early medieval England KittyWampus Dec 2014 #214

Ancestors? It's still going on. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #93

I am from NE MN and most of the Native children removed from their homes are placed in Native jwirr Dec 2014 #101

Sounds like MN is a bit more enlightened about such, then. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #107

Whole heartedly agree with you. That is not a good policy. jwirr Dec 2014 #114

AND AgingAmerican Dec 2014 #186

Assimilation is normal booley Dec 2014 #25

It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. dilby Dec 2014 #31

Well said. Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #48

not surprised you would agree. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #53

guessing you are a middling class white person. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #52

Why customerserviceguy Dec 2014 #66

You do bring up an interesting point about trolls. Peace out. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #70

Profiling is the new DU fad. pintobean Dec 2014 #91

Yes, apparently customerserviceguy Dec 2014 #97

So attack his race and gender LittleBlue Dec 2014 #76

That was an attack? Good lord. Surmising and guessing and polite conversation is now attacking. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #79

Yeah, because if I said something like "I'm guessing you're black and a woman" LittleBlue Dec 2014 #80

Such a post would be hidden in a nanosecond. Throd Dec 2014 #83

IF you said something like that I would tell you exactly what is my profile but, since you didn't, I Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #85

Thank you Boreal Dec 2014 #169

Middle class Jew and I don't flip out when I see non jews at the Deli or eating bagels. n/t dilby Dec 2014 #87

Good for you. The rest of your remark is best left at Peace out. Because = Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #88

But would you freak out with non-jews ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #182

No, not at all unless it's was worn in disrespect. dilby Dec 2014 #190

Black Hewbrew Israelite are NOT wearing them as FASHION ACCESSORIES ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #193

Appropriation / Misappropriation. KittyWampus Dec 2014 #202

I'm, honestly, undecided on the benefits/draw-backs on the "Appropriation" argument ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #207

I'm black and I would agree with the OP here. WestCoastLib Dec 2014 #103

point taken. However, I still think the word in the title shoud be assimilation and NOT Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #104

Appropriation is the first step of the process by which culture is mainstreamed WestCoastLib Dec 2014 #105

In my family we just run with AgingAmerican Dec 2014 #187

It seems that the appropriate thing to do would be to compliment the white person's cornrows, Nye Bevan Dec 2014 #198

this much I will give you for trying to understand what is happening ... let me fix your title line Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #77

Thankfully, more people are starting to think more than they used to. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #89

There's a difference between exchange and appropriation. yewberry Dec 2014 #96

That image is the perfect example of the smug "I'm so much more enlightned than you" Kurska Dec 2014 #137

Cultural appropriation is the new white privilege upaloopa Dec 2014 #99

Does Bo Derek even know what a hated figure she has become on DU, Nye Bevan Dec 2014 #199

We're not bright enough to have these conversations Prism Dec 2014 #102

As usual, an outstanding post, Prism. pintobean Dec 2014 #106

Just fine, thanks =) Prism Dec 2014 #142

My thoughts exactly, just much better stated. Throd Dec 2014 #111

good post annabanana Dec 2014 #117

Thank you. distantearlywarning Dec 2014 #121

Good post. The other thing I would add, re: music, etc- Warren DeMontague Dec 2014 #124

There isn't a more spectaculary wrongheaded example of so-called theft and appropriation than Elvis BeyondGeography Dec 2014 #134

Fair enough. Warren DeMontague Dec 2014 #145

It was definitely appropriation at the time Prism Dec 2014 #141

....I admit to being massively out of the loop. Warren DeMontague Dec 2014 #146

Well said Veruca Salt Dec 2014 #131

in another thread I mentioned that us gals would be offended by drag queens Skittles Dec 2014 #150

WHO has said "white people can't enjoy anime"? Looks like you're huffing and puffing down a strawman alp227 Dec 2014 #151

From your first link -- Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #164

Of course there's no overseeing authority. But do people not have the right to preserve their own alp227 Dec 2014 #168

"do people not have the right to preserve their own culture?" Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #170

I'm not gonna answer loaded questions like alp227 Dec 2014 #171

Okay. Fine. I'll answer it. Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #173

Appreciation and mockery are way different. alp227 Dec 2014 #176

So suddenly the complaint has become one of market saturation. Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #181

"preserve the integrity of their genre through actual talent..like Eminem" EX500rider Dec 2014 #225

Damn, I forgot. Of course Eminem has a history of violent/misogynistic lyrics. alp227 Dec 2014 #232

I'm very familiar with the anime community, but your article begs a question. Prism Dec 2014 #247

It's your opinion if you think it's good that heterosexuals appropriate gay culture, alp227 Dec 2014 #264

We're an agreement Prism Dec 2014 #270

"intellectualism has been dumbed down" Boreal Dec 2014 #174

Ugh, don't remind me of the Tumblr "social justice warriors". Odin2005 Dec 2014 #192

Or people feeling like they're "doing something" Prism Dec 2014 #248

Actually you do see that. unrepentant progress Dec 2014 #203

Weeaboos are . . . yeah . . . Prism Dec 2014 #249

...kawaii? You were going to say weeaboos are so kawaii? ;-) unrepentant progress Dec 2014 #254

Well, now! Prism Dec 2014 #258

Prism, it isn't just "mocking" that distinguished mis-appropriation. Financial exploitation KittyWampus Dec 2014 #208

But did Katy Perry exploit it for profit? Prism Dec 2014 #255

Define "generalized american culture". Until we do that, we can't identify stolen goods. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2014 #224

The pseudo educated in the media Prism Dec 2014 #257

When was the US ever "an inclusive society?" rjsquirrel Dec 2014 #108

+1 gollygee Dec 2014 #143

It was a society BainsBane Dec 2014 #144

There are still people, mostly white and male, all in this thread with the stupidest comments Number23 Dec 2014 #155

You'll note that the same people BainsBane Dec 2014 #158

This is one of the MANY topics that DU fails on. Jezebel has been doing lots of articles Number23 Dec 2014 #163

Which is appropos of nothing Prism Dec 2014 #251

{Sigh} n/t 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #116

You just need to learn BainsBane Dec 2014 #160

Yeah, cause I totally said that. Kurska Dec 2014 #221

I beg to differ BainsBane Dec 2014 #222

How on earth you got that I was telling them how to be black escapes me as always. Kurska Dec 2014 #230

You could do the same with the discussions about cultural appropriation BainsBane Dec 2014 #256

Cultural exchange is nothing new. However militant societies destroy goodwill. Rex Dec 2014 #119

Is integrating stealing though? Prism Dec 2014 #252

It is hard to understand imo. The mindset of someone using other than common sense Rex Dec 2014 #260

Post removed Post removed Dec 2014 #125

People who think of themselves as "left wing" ... Joe Magarac Dec 2014 #127

^^THIS. Boreal Dec 2014 #177

Ah more, "We can't talk about racism until there are no poor white people." gollygee Dec 2014 #236

and, "liberals, especially professors, are the real racists" Doctor_J Dec 2014 #261

I was listening to this right before I clicked on the thread.. Fumesucker Dec 2014 #136

I was so offended by that, I put my foot through my computer screen, Nye Bevan Dec 2014 #200

Cultural segregation, indeed. It happens in a country where everyone comes from everywhere else. ancianita Dec 2014 #139

British Museum Boreal Dec 2014 #178

And the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York should send all its mummies back to Egypt? Nye Bevan Dec 2014 #196

I'm sure some Egyptians could use the fuel jberryhill Dec 2014 #209

Thanks. Nye Bevan Dec 2014 #212

A good first step would be Boreal Dec 2014 #229

They belonged to an Egypt which no longer exists jberryhill Dec 2014 #243

I'm aware the looting of the museum Boreal Dec 2014 #245

An interesting sub-topic, this museum stuff, but not relevant to LIVE cultures' sharing issues. ancianita Dec 2014 #265

That's where I am Prism Dec 2014 #253

It can be inclusive IVoteDFL Dec 2014 #140

I saw a post recently at DU that said that Doctor_J Dec 2014 #147

Those posts by whites that say "EVERYONE is racist" Nye Bevan Dec 2014 #156

That's an impossibility. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #216

It seems BainsBane Dec 2014 #159

There wasn't much to reflect on Doctor_J Dec 2014 #167

"There wasn't much to reflect on" BainsBane Dec 2014 #172

And yet not a single outraged rec'r was able to point to a single one of the Doctor_J Dec 2014 #175

Hey Doc, have you noticed the many "Name Removed" posts on DU, lately? countryjake Dec 2014 #189

Thank you I will check this one out Doctor_J Dec 2014 #228

It was not that they aren't able BainsBane Dec 2014 #223

lol I'm sure many here are shocked Number23 Dec 2014 #153

I suppose it goes to the questions of how much respect was and is shown in the appropriation Ken Burch Dec 2014 #179

Well stated ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #183

Excellent post..I have an idea of a thread, Annie get your gun? no randys1 Dec 2014 #205

"how much acknowledgment of the cultural sources(including financial respect) was and is given." Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #206

It is not about Katy Perry's cornrows. It is about Iggy Azalea. kwassa Dec 2014 #244

Hah! I was just about to mention Iggy Azalea unrepentant progress Dec 2014 #259

"she's not trying to highlight Indian poverty" Does she have too? EX500rider Jan 2015 #273

Like Al Jolson? Starry Messenger Dec 2014 #191

How much cash are you allowed to make? brooklynite Dec 2014 #194

Have people of color ever seen cultural appropriation as a sign of an inclusive society gollygee Dec 2014 #233

Not really. "Appropriation" has a negative denotation and connotation. WinkyDink Dec 2014 #250

OK, so you're telling black people Feral Child Dec 2014 #262

I can think of any number of eye rolling examples of cultural appropriation Matariki Dec 2014 #263

Yes. The inequity of access to high profit from using another's cultural style without consent. ancianita Dec 2014 #267

Regarding iggy ecstatic Dec 2014 #266