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In reply to the discussion: Why Is Population Growth Seldom Discussed? [View all]Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)198. You're damn right I put it in quotes.
Population issues go beyond current rates of growth. The United States, at its current level of population, is overpopulated. The world as a whole, at its current level of population, is overpopulated.
--- says you. So, okay, given that it is both a statistical fact that the US fertility rate is already below replacement levels, AND what population growth there is in the US is due to immigration- again, statistical fact; what exactly do you propose be done about the so-called overpopulation here in the US? I mean, I understand that less than 2 babies per 2 parents is still far too many wailing infants to fuck up some peoples' fine dining experience at TGIFs or whatever (yes, I've been on DU for a long time), but there is only so much reduction that can be done between 2 and zero. So, again, what precise real-world concrete policy proposals would make you happy, in this regard?
So is it a solution to envision bringing the rest of the world up to the U.S. standard of living, in the hope that, along with other factors such as overcoming religious barriers to reproductive rights, the result will be population stabilization? No, it isn't.
I'm sure that's easy for you to say, as you sit on a computer and drink clean water and don't have to worry about your family members dying of what should be entirely treatable illnesses. What was the overwhelming lesson of the entirely preventable ebola tragedy -and yes, for the 10K people or so killed and their families, it was not a "manufactured FOX news crisis", it was a real tragedy- of the past year? It was that countries like Sierra Leone and Liberia are suffering with terribly dilapidated health care infrastructures, and it is incumbent- both morally and from a self-interest perspective- on the rest of the world to help them in that regard.
Given the choice, I suspect that much of the rest of the world would say, "yeah, actually, that 1st world standard of living doesn't sound so terrible, and we'll figure out the resource and energy issues just like you guys are working on them". I think it's awfully arrogant to presume to condemn the rest of the planet to live in permanent abject poverty because, hey, you know, the environment- our bad.
I happen to believe our problems - resource utilization, sustainable energy- will be solved by moving FORWARD, not backward. I know that's a position that pisses some people off immeasurably, but again, too fucking bad. Just like how being pro choice magically turns into a position that pisses some people off, as soon as the topic is the "population problem". Again, sorry, but too damn bad.
And perhaps not coincidentally enough, that is how the 1st world has dealt with fertility and population- not by going backwards, but by going forward. With the tools of personal freedom and access to contraception, the problem has solved itself. Presto.
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We have very little influence over other country's demographics, but we in the
Ed Suspicious
Jan 2015
#34
Really? You think there are about 2.4 million new undocumented immigrants every year?
muriel_volestrangler
Jan 2015
#23
So you're the kind of person who automatically thinks 'illegal' when they hear 'immigrant'
muriel_volestrangler
Jan 2015
#111
"Mother Earth can only hold so many." Malthus was wrong in 1798 and he's still wrong.
ucrdem
Jan 2015
#9
Because a practical implementation would unbridle the arrogance of humanity.
Nuclear Unicorn
Jan 2015
#12
Civilization and every institution we've built in it is based on more people doing more things
The2ndWheel
Jan 2015
#13
Because any discussion is going to put it into a severely negative light and
TheKentuckian
Jan 2015
#16
NEARLY half of all people now live in countries where women, on average, give birth to fewer than
NewDeal_Dem
Jan 2015
#20
This has been a concern of mine since learning about it in grade school and seeing it up front
joanbarnes
Jan 2015
#21
Educating men is also a direct way to reduce human population and to have fewer children.
appalachiablue
Jan 2015
#56
I understand that. Women are far more than walking uteruses. Men must also receive general and
appalachiablue
Jan 2015
#192
Man, your posts are a perfect example of the completely tuned out bubble big chunks of this place
Warren DeMontague
Jan 2015
#118
Im not saying ignore the world outside the USA, I'm saying global population isnt fungible.
Warren DeMontague
Jan 2015
#136
Yeah, the 'reasonable' guy making vaguely violent-sounding noises about what 'they' will do to 'you'
Warren DeMontague
Jan 2015
#166
And if people took that approach with the parts of the world that actually do have problems with
Warren DeMontague
Jan 2015
#116
And look at what happened with what should have been a manageable ebola outbreak.
Warren DeMontague
Jan 2015
#148
We haven't done absolutely nothing. We've given people the tools to make their own reproductive
Warren DeMontague
Jan 2015
#119
If you refer to a "so-called population problem" then we're probably not saying the same thing.
Jim Lane
Jan 2015
#182
Yes, I lean towards the technological fix school of thought, if I can be ascribed to any "school"
Warren DeMontague
Jan 2015
#202
So yes, you yourself acknowledge that there's a rather large gap between the 1st world
Warren DeMontague
Jan 2015
#206
The Third World has higher population growth, but we also have an overpopulation problem.
Jim Lane
Jan 2015
#217
And round and round and round we go, like I said, either we're saying the same thing or we aren't.
Warren DeMontague
Jan 2015
#218
Weird Coincidence.. I was just about to post an OP how the Reich Wing used this issue to their
2banon
Jan 2015
#38
Very interesting points. Agree it seems that more thoughtful, caring liberals behaved in a
appalachiablue
Jan 2015
#64
My One Child is now an adult in her 40's.. She and her Wife got married several years ago
2banon
Jan 2015
#70
How wonderful for you, two grandgirls. Agree we need serious catchup in population nos.for the left
appalachiablue
Jan 2015
#80
agreed. and the superrich have more kids than the middle classes do, on average. and they
NewDeal_Dem
Jan 2015
#97
Some people just wake up in the morning pissed off that they can't tell everyone else what to do.
Warren DeMontague
Jan 2015
#120
And I thought it was only right wing fundamentalists who were anti-choice.
Warren DeMontague
Jan 2015
#137
I don't want any children so I'm selfishly doing my part. I think? the problem is
BlueJazz
Jan 2015
#47
Population growth is essential to understanding the rise of global neoliberal economics and climate
appalachiablue
Jan 2015
#61
Anyone who wants to talk about sustainabilty but won't talk about population issues is a hypocrite.
Bluenorthwest
Jan 2015
#91
isn't this something that is more connected to poverty, lack of education and other rights for
JI7
Jan 2015
#93
You're right. Need to crash our population nicely, before nature and war does it for us badly
on point
Jan 2015
#103
Because in economically developed countries where people are free and have access to contraception
Warren DeMontague
Jan 2015
#113
Saying it will have to be addressed no matter what is not the same thing as saying they're linked.
Warren DeMontague
Jan 2015
#199
humans quadrupled in only 1/2 a century. The mass-extinction was underway at least 15 yrs ago.
stuntcat
Jan 2015
#117
Webster Tarpley? You're going to quote a Lyndon LaRouche supporter who says we should follow Genesis
muriel_volestrangler
Jan 2015
#125
im pointing to an old ruse from the same interests, and got a rise out of you
reddread
Jan 2015
#128
Retirement problems we can figure out. Missing keystone species, not so much.
GliderGuider
Jan 2015
#142
Sounds like we should be privitizing the profits of the planet, and socializing the costs
The2ndWheel
Jan 2015
#180
We are well into overshoot with significant carrying capacity degradation.
airplaneman
Jan 2015
#135
I can't wait for posts when December articles of Stephanie Seneff, Phd. MIT Senior Scientific Staff
appalachiablue
Jan 2015
#139
Because it inevitably leads to accusations "YOUR A NAZI WHO WANTS MASS GENOCIDE/STERILIZATION"
alp227
Jan 2015
#157
I don't agree that seven billion is sustainable just because that's the current number.
Jim Lane
Jan 2015
#187
Environmentalists who address sustainability don't give that word the broad meaning that you do.
Jim Lane
Jan 2015
#196
"Sustainable" is a very slippery term because most people don't attach a time period to it.
GliderGuider
Jan 2015
#212
I've posted about it many times in the past, and will do so again. It's our most
20score
Jan 2015
#219