General Discussion

kwassa

(23,340 posts)

164. I partially agree with you, and partially don't. Your point of view is valid ...

Fri Jan 2, 2015, 10:51 PM

Jan 2015

but you are running up against the American belief that we are all self-made, and succeed or fail based on our own intrinsic merit. There is not a great sense here of the continuum of history, the idea of cause and effect, of how certain themes continue in other forms or permutations. Or that there

Yes, great fortunes start with slavery, and they also start with other great crimes. Land theft from the Native Americans is a great one, as is the removal and extermination from what was their great asset. Various business tycoons have engaged in ruthless and unethical practices to destroy competitors. John D. Rockefeller. Every day lobbyists try to buy favors from legislators that mean money in the pocket for their clients through beneficial legislation. And then there are subsidies ....

How about Hawaii? White missionaries go there to civilize the natives, and end up stealing all the land, and making great fortunes in the process.

My disagreement with you is this: This is simply one more form of white privilege, and the poor whites still do have that advantage over an equally poor black person in identical circumstances.

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How Benedict Cumberbatch's family made a fortune from slavery [View all] NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 OP

Whatever. Who cares? Frank Cannon Jan 2015 #1

Exactly. This is all becoming really silly. WillowTree Jan 2015 #4

Posting this crap, as though it is somehow important, ChairmanAgnostic Jan 2015 #11

It's where his position in life came from. But of course it's unimportant to some. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #15

Really? Takket Jan 2015 #16

Slave profits, for example, gave many the freedom to achieve in the arts. Most people don't find NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #58

I find all of this history interesting Boreal Jan 2015 #211

I wasn't talking about Bernard as you call him, but you. ChairmanAgnostic Jan 2015 #18

You're laboring under a misapprehension. Nowhere have I said that anyone is resonsible for the NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #63

your "cold fact" has some sort of virus. ChairmanAgnostic Jan 2015 #237

You know. My ancestors came from Norway. Savannahmann Jan 2015 #53

I'm not sure how many times I have to patiently explain: I've done no such thing. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #65

great response. Pity the logic is lost on the original poster. ChairmanAgnostic Jan 2015 #238

Oh no, my ancestors may have cheered watching Arkana Jan 2015 #161

Time to bring back UNREC!!!! You can pick your friends, you can't pick your relatives!!! MADem Jan 2015 #22

I'd rather stone "Mycroft". greatauntoftriplets Jan 2015 #62

Hahaha! nt MADem Jan 2015 #106

What's with the "so what" mentality? Afraid of the truth? Dont call me Shirley Jan 2015 #32

W h a t. . . T r u t h ? ? ChairmanAgnostic Jan 2015 #35

Posting famous people's ancestries is not a stupid thing, especially when those famous people Dont call me Shirley Jan 2015 #45

Letting actors "influence our lives" is kinda stupid. arcane1 Jan 2015 #54

Actors like Sydney Poitier? Dont call me Shirley Jan 2015 #61

Why Sidney Poitier and not other actors? Crunchy Frog Jan 2015 #214

As a now banned member once wrote, "The technique is called "zealotry trolling" FSogol Jan 2015 #239

Makes sense. ChairmanAgnostic Jan 2015 #247

Part of the reason I'm spending less time here Crunchy Frog Jan 2015 #204

FSM help me if I'm ever in the public eye Sen. Walter Sobchak Jan 2015 #68

Well, that's what white people today often say. closeupready Jan 2015 #109

I bet even lots of non-white people have some pretty shady ancestry. Crunchy Frog Jan 2015 #212

So what is he supposed to do? (It's Benedict, by the way; not Bernard) The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2015 #2

I think its great that he's making a film about that very subject, the slave trade. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #7

He already made one movie about slavery Bjorn Against Jan 2015 #82

Love, love, love Sherlock! Laffy Kat Jan 2015 #112

I watched the pilot and then I was HOOKED. I wish there were more episodes! NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #118

Season 4 article. greatauntoftriplets Jan 2015 #121

I CAN'T WAIT THAT LONG!!! NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #128

One of the local PBS stations here showed some Sherlock episodes yesterday and Wednesday. greatauntoftriplets Jan 2015 #130

I put Sign of Three down as one of the best, most cleverly written episodes of television... LanternWaste Jan 2015 #243

Absolutely. greatauntoftriplets Jan 2015 #246

I believe they intend to continue the series. Laffy Kat Jan 2015 #124

He's not supposed to do anything and pardon for misspelling his name. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #8

Are you saying that he wouldn't be an acclaimed actor TexasMommaWithAHat Jan 2015 #9

Things have changed since richard burton was a lad, m'dear. You look at most of the renowned NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #14

Tell that to the cast of East Enders... nt MADem Jan 2015 #24

You think because actors appeared in a drama about east enders, they were born in the east end? NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #70

And you think they went to Oxford and Cambridge? MADem Jan 2015 #99

I know what east enders is, and i've seen a few episodes. I also looked through the list of stars NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #137

Well, I've never thought of folks like Adele and TexasMommaWithAHat Jan 2015 #25

Yeesh. enlightenment Jan 2015 #27

Don't forget Idris Elba haha TexasMommaWithAHat Jan 2015 #57

I could never forget him - enlightenment Jan 2015 #170

Yeah, me, too TexasMommaWithAHat Jan 2015 #231

Tom Hardy, Toby Kebbell, Tom Mison... WorseBeforeBetter Jan 2015 #150

thank you. elehhhhna Jan 2015 #29

You mean famous actors like James McAvoy, Gerard Butler, Charlie Hunnam, Ben Whishaw, hughee99 Jan 2015 #38

Charlie Hunnam? Did you see what his mom, Katie Sagal, did to his wife the doctor? NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #46

I started taking a look through your list but stopped at orlando bloom. You can't seriously think NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #47

There's a range between "working class" and "posh". hughee99 Jan 2015 #191

Scotland is part of Great Britain--you're good. MADem Jan 2015 #103

Yes, but some of the Scots I know take offense to calling them British hughee99 Jan 2015 #192

Better safe than sorry~! nt MADem Jan 2015 #225

You can source this allegation with objective source, yes? LanternWaste Jan 2015 #244

You seem to be implying that only wealthy people are able to become actors . . . markpkessinger Jan 2015 #92

I didn't imply any such thing. But I'll bet there are more upper middle to upper class people who NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #94

I may have been wrong about Everett . . . markpkessinger Jan 2015 #100

and i could make a list of actors who came from great wealth, starting with julia louis-dreyfus of NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #145

Oh, wow! NanceGreggs Jan 2015 #199

Post removed Post removed Jan 2015 #200

Oh, yes, I did notice. NanceGreggs Jan 2015 #205

Post removed Post removed Jan 2015 #207

Welcome to DU! zappaman Jan 2015 #209

Right? cyberswede Jan 2015 #210

The OP has gotten so far from the original point cwydro Jan 2015 #230

The author of the OP has been flagged for review. zappaman Jan 2015 #233

So you gave up on your slavery tirade cwydro Jan 2015 #229

He should quit his career, give away all his ill gotten wealth, Crunchy Frog Jan 2015 #213

This made me laugh out loud! cwydro Jan 2015 #234

Ah, the Daily Mail, aka the Daily Fail. Staph Jan 2015 #3

Well, here's a confirmation from the Guardian. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #10

You highlighted "was an arts scholar". Why then say "I don't see anything about a scholarship"? muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #75

being a scholar means you got a scholarship? not where i come from. being a arts scholar means NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #80

Well, you don't come from the UK. It does mean you got a scholarship here. muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #86

well, thank you for the reference. partial scholarship, by other accounts. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #110

"It was a huge stretch for them." muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #115

According to him, his grandmother paid 2/3 of his fee at Harrow. That's about 20K a year. I know NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #119

Benedict Cumberbatch, star of Sherlock, has talked about posh-bashing in the UK. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #123

... tammywammy Jan 2015 #85

... NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #116

Neither would I give up the money or position in life. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #5

I've seen Sherlock; I like it. I like Cumberbach (or at least his persona). But I'll say it's damn NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #12

You've really hit a raw nerve with your ancestry posts NewDeal_Dem. A lot of peeps have their Dont call me Shirley Jan 2015 #48

The only 'undies' at risk here ... NanceGreggs Jan 2015 #60

If they're really twisted in a knot, nothing can evacuate Dont call me Shirley Jan 2015 #77

New flash: NanceGreggs Jan 2015 #97

Ok so, let me get this: history is insignificant Dont call me Shirley Jan 2015 #98

Yeah. That's EXACTLY what I said. NanceGreggs Jan 2015 #107

Thanks Nancy, you're so kind Dont call me Shirley Jan 2015 #111

Not holier than thou ... NanceGreggs Jan 2015 #117

I love facts. I love reading facts. I love learning facts. Dont call me Shirley Jan 2015 #122

What you're missing entirely ... NanceGreggs Jan 2015 #133

BUT, that 1830s fortune can be the foundation of the rest of the family fortune kwassa Jan 2015 #144

I think people generally take it for granted that capitalists reinvest their capital. To make more NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #148

why would you think the proceeds from slavery wouldn't be reinvested? In industry, for example? NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #136

Of course it was reinvested. NanceGreggs Jan 2015 #141

So, the money is clean because it was laundered by generations after it? kwassa Jan 2015 #146

The proceeds of slavery ... NanceGreggs Jan 2015 #158

You can't separate the two, and if you think you can .... kwassa Jan 2015 #165

Cumberbatch's inheritance ... NanceGreggs Jan 2015 #173

Like I said, the money is laundered. kwassa Jan 2015 #182

I didn't say ... NanceGreggs Jan 2015 #198

How can the money become legitimate if the source was dirty? kwassa Jan 2015 #228

you don't know how it was invested. maybe it was invested in child labor or textile sweatshops NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #188

you apparently don't know what 'laundered money' is, despite your vast knowlege (which i bow to, NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #187

Money laundering ... NanceGreggs Jan 2015 #196

slavery became illegal in england and its possessions in 1833. The cumberbatches owned NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #201

LOL. So say drug dealers everywhere. Yet they still go to prison. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #149

Post removed Post removed Jan 2015 #169

no, i'm just too dumb to understand the english language well as you do, miz nance NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #172

You apparently think ... NanceGreggs Jan 2015 #175

and you apparently think that moving ill-gotten money around cleans it. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #181

what a stupid claim. the slave trade was the source of any money the family had to invest. it was NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #151

You still haven't explained ... NanceGreggs Jan 2015 #162

but miz nance, you've already explained to us illiterates that invested dirty money becomes clean NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #174

Post removed Post removed Jan 2015 #186

I don't give a fig about your stupid grandfather and his lousy $10. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #189

As I don't give a fuck ... NanceGreggs Jan 2015 #197

Then why are you here dispensing your venomous literary droppings? For someone who NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #203

I am here posting replies ... NanceGreggs Jan 2015 #208

wow, another country heard from. i guess i really -have- hit a nerve. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #81

The only 'nerve' you're hitting ... NanceGreggs Jan 2015 #90

It is pretty damned hilarious. eom MohRokTah Jan 2015 #96

ironic NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #152

It's called the funny bone. greatauntoftriplets Jan 2015 #91

+1,000,000,000,000 eom MohRokTah Jan 2015 #95

to be fair DonCoquixote Jan 2015 #6

To be fair; he's in a position to make so much money because he's the several times removed NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #13

Sorry but that supposition is total bullshit Takket Jan 2015 #20

To be fair; GeorgeGist Jan 2015 #30

It's not personal. But people without such advantages should understand how things really work NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #49

how much did he actually get? DonCoquixote Jan 2015 #127

Your claim is one of the classic logical fallacies markpkessinger Jan 2015 #93

In fairness... Dr. Strange Jan 2015 #113

how much money did her acyually GET though? DonCoquixote Jan 2015 #126

2/3 of his tuition at harrow was paid by his grandma. that was about 20K/year for about 4 years. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #155

Easily one of the silliest OPs I've seen in awhile LordGlenconner Jan 2015 #17

This? joeybee12 Jan 2015 #23

exactly, those with connections and family name/money without talent would do some shitty reality JI7 Jan 2015 #37

Shitty reality shows pay well; better than 90-95% of the working population, I'd bet. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #83

Funny how 'talent' seems to accrue more to those who come from 30,000/year schools than NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #52

Am I suppose to be mad at Benedict because of something his great, great, great, great grandfather Pisces Jan 2015 #19

So we're now punishing people for the sins of the father? MohRokTah Jan 2015 #21

the OP thinks people like cumberbatch are more to blame for emmett till's death, racist cops JI7 Jan 2015 #41

I remember -YOU- attributing that view to me, but I don't remember espousing it. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #156

I find the responses to your recents posts quite curious for a "progressive" political board. Trillo Jan 2015 #26

We'll probably die completely broke TexasMommaWithAHat Jan 2015 #64

I don't think there's an easy answer. Trillo Jan 2015 #71

I have friends ... NanceGreggs Jan 2015 #125

Absolutely. I'm saying that it is a form, one of many Trillo Jan 2015 #143

My goal isn't equality of results TexasMommaWithAHat Jan 2015 #154

The level of venom is kind of surprising, yes. You'd think some of the posters had a vested NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #157

I partially agree with you, and partially don't. Your point of view is valid ... kwassa Jan 2015 #164

Noting those who are lining up to take a whack at you... grasswire Jan 2015 #176

Thanks. It's disheartening to see on a democratic board. For a tired idealist. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #179

You're right (nt) CrawlingChaos Jan 2015 #219

Very, very, very true. CrawlingChaos Jan 2015 #220

Hey, let's go back to the Roman Empire and trace descendants of those slave owners. eShirl Jan 2015 #28

Or go back to the original sellers of the slaves, the one which captured the slaves and sold them. Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #33

The Roman army? eShirl Jan 2015 #43

Is this who you think raided other tribes and captured them to sell? Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #44

good grief, read what you are replying to eShirl Jan 2015 #67

Pot, meet kettle! MohRokTah Jan 2015 #72

I would request the same of you, in post #33 you posted Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #76

try #28; #33 was *your* reply to my #28 eShirl Jan 2015 #105

And then you replied to post #33 "The Roman army", you wanted to go back to the Roman Empire Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #114

One of Cumberbatches grandfathers likely was a slave Renew Deal Jan 2015 #184

I personally feel tremendous guilt as to what my ancestors did to the Neanderthals. Throd Jan 2015 #31

My great-great-something-ridiculous-grandfather... DeadLetterOffice Jan 2015 #34

My greatgranddad ran a house of pleasure in Paris. ChairmanAgnostic Jan 2015 #40

My Great Great Great Grandfather Abraham Souls.. trumad Jan 2015 #36

Ok...I thought he was phenomenal in The Imitation Game BeyondGeography Jan 2015 #39

So what do you suggest? SomethingFishy Jan 2015 #42

Somehow, I think this is the end game - "Or take away all their money." n/t djean111 Jan 2015 #69

He should win the Oscar mcar Jan 2015 #50

Why is GD suddenly full of slavery threads? LittleBlue Jan 2015 #51

I think this is partly a recent outgrowth of the policing issues, Ferguson, Trillo Jan 2015 #120

Benedict Cumberbatch needs to stop shooting unarmed black men. Crunchy Frog Jan 2015 #227

Because this brand new poster, who just joined this month, is starting them. MADem Jan 2015 #226

I'm a descedant of Aaron Burr BainsBane Jan 2015 #55

who accumulated the capital? who invested in cotton mills and textiles? NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #159

You entirely missed the point BainsBane Jan 2015 #180

I didn't miss the point at all, and nothing you say in your post is news to me. and as a matter NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #185

"if he'd been a nobody it's likely he'd have not gotten into the acting trade" arcane1 Jan 2015 #56

"all over the place"? really? I'm not seeing all these nobodies in the acting trade. anna nicole NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #59

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Maedhros Jan 2015 #78

I can pull out 5 actors from privileged backgrounds too. doesn't prove that's the norm. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #171

Ok, so you are being deliberately obtuse. Maedhros Jan 2015 #216

when i think of a "nobody," i think of someone working at mcdonalds etc, not a college educated NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #217

Sir Patrick Stewart was a nobody and from an undistinguished family csziggy Jan 2015 #89

Some of my ancestors were smugglers in the 18th century. The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2015 #66

I'm tired of trying to clarify the point with people who clearly have no interest and in fact NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #73

Maybe, maybe not. The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2015 #84

I think Cumberbach is a good actor and probably a decent person (at least, his persona seems NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #87

If he benefited at all from his family history, it's because his parents are actors renate Jan 2015 #74

i'm not sure you can say he wouldn't have ended up an actor. connections help, but takes talent. unblock Jan 2015 #79

Rupert Murdoch's right-wing Daily Mail is just pissed at Cumberbatch Bjorn Against Jan 2015 #88

And there you have it. The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2015 #102

Bingo. Cumberbatch is phenomenal in The Imitation Game, abt a brilliant gay man persecuted to death Hekate Jan 2015 #135

I wish I could rec a response, sir. eom MohRokTah Jan 2015 #138

I do have another response you can recommend Bjorn Against Jan 2015 #140

and the guardian is pissed at him because....? NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #190

I wonder what your next OP will be about... and I'm waiting with breathless anticipation. cherokeeprogressive Jan 2015 #101

Perhaps Tom Hiddleston? He boarded at -- gasp! -- Eton. WorseBeforeBetter Jan 2015 #147

Who is Bernard? nt valerief Jan 2015 #104

much more current is when slavery continued from Americas prison system. Hardcore from after slaves Sunlei Jan 2015 #108

Here is slavery of thousands of Americans, much more current. All documented from official records. Sunlei Jan 2015 #134

Does nobody get that we're creating the future's Benedict...... Red Mountain Jan 2015 #129

Thread trashed. nt TeamPooka Jan 2015 #131

"So?"~~~GWB. WinkyDink Jan 2015 #132

I posted another thread to show why this smear against Cumberbatch is so wrong Bjorn Against Jan 2015 #139

Everybody's family prospered because their ancestors owned their wives. MohRokTah Jan 2015 #142

Yawn. You've only been doing this a few days, and your shtick's already gotten old. NuclearDem Jan 2015 #153

So? Arkana Jan 2015 #160

I hope you don't live in a country that ever had slavery, or traded with nations that did mythology Jan 2015 #163

Or, for that matter, gotten a mortgage after WWII Recursion Jan 2015 #168

the op didn't like when i brought that up JI7 Jan 2015 #194

oh for god's sake. it's so thick around here. thanks for the lecture, i'm so dumb i just didn't NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #177

Benedict. Not Bernard. shenmue Jan 2015 #166

Thanks. I've already been corrected multiple times, though "Benedict" is in the title and "Bernard" NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #178

My ancestor was a pirate who ran slaves from West Africa to Mobile through the British blockade Recursion Jan 2015 #167

I think this is about trying to tear down someone who is both a super talent and clean. Renew Deal Jan 2015 #183

What a stupid thread. Of course it uses Murdoch's Daily Mail as a source. dballance Jan 2015 #193

here's the guardian NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #195

His seventh great grandfather. Shocking. Crunchy Frog Jan 2015 #202

WTH is this (been gone for holidays, where's DU?) n/t Nevada Blue Jan 2015 #206

He got into the acting trade through his parents, both of whom are actors. knitter4democracy Jan 2015 #215

How many logical fallacies can I count in this OP......? defacto7 Jan 2015 #218

I subscribe to the Honore de Balzac quote CrawlingChaos Jan 2015 #221

I can document my ancestors back to the Plantagenet kings HeiressofBickworth Jan 2015 #222

actually the op does not support reparations JI7 Jan 2015 #223

Most of us have ancestors who engaged in reprehensible behavior. 6 generations back, who cares? Shrike47 Jan 2015 #224

I hope you find some kind of peace. A-Schwarzenegger Jan 2015 #232

what was the previous name they posted under ? JI7 Jan 2015 #235

I had several ancestors who knitted socks for zombies. Warren DeMontague Jan 2015 #236

Perhaps you'd prefer to he give all his money away, forget he went to a posh school.. Adrahil Jan 2015 #240

Everybody who has had any ancestor who did anything immoral and profited from it should live in el_bryanto Jan 2015 #241

In 'Amazing Grace', he played Will Pitt the Younger, and assisted MP William Wilburforce in abolishi LanternWaste Jan 2015 #242

Who is Bernard? Benedict is a great actor, and shouldn't be blamed for his ancestors' actions. n/t Avalux Jan 2015 #245