General Discussion

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)

144. 'Warned against' meaning they predicted that political parites would

Reply to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #131)

Sat Jan 3, 2015, 07:50 PM

Jan 2015

divide the country. Were they wrong? They didn't offer an alternative. They merely warned of the pitfalls of a two party system.

And proved it themselves, when former allies such as Jefferson and Adams, ended up as bitter political enemies until shortly before both of them died (on the same day, ironically July 4th) persuaded them to forget their past disagreements after which they reunited and left a record of their thoughts when both were old men.

They did not say 'don't form political parties', they DID warn of the vulnerabilities of such a system which they themselves participated in.

If this website is about equality, opposed, as it once was, to all of our 'foreign adventures, droning of people in far off lands, which it once was, for the people having a say in their government, against the control of our government by Wall St Bankers, among other things, they would not be against it.

However, DU has changed regarding many of the issues it used to almost unanimously oppose. So, no doubt, if they came here today and wrote the Declaration of Independence, some here would call them 'purists'.

During the Bush years, some on the right DID call them 'purists' because whenever WE produced opinions from them on 'engaging in foreign wars' eg, or wrt to the Bankers they no longer supported them.

It's amazing how opinions appear to change depending on which politicial party is in power. Well not ALL opinions change, but some definitely do. A study ought to be done on that.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

165 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Dear President Obama, Please shut the f' up about TPP rainbows and unicorns... [View all] whereisjustice Jan 2015 OP

Sen Sanders Says No to TPP � Why Do Conservative Dems Say Yes? rhett o rick Jan 2015 #1

A conservative dem is a fantasy. A conservative dem is a republican Autumn Jan 2015 #2

Thank you, Autumn MissDeeds Jan 2015 #35

I am so sick of moderate republicans hiding behind a magic D. They can call themselves Autumn Jan 2015 #37

I could not agree more. MissDeeds Jan 2015 #42

+ a kabillion. nt Mojorabbit Jan 2015 #101

+1 whereisjustice Jan 2015 #23

Since when did America get virtuous and all about what it does to other countries economically? Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #30

Each of those points will be happening to AMERICANS. djean111 Jan 2015 #40

You raise an interesting issue. Country of origin labelling for meat is being used by America to Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #43

I want to know where the meat comes from. Or I don't buy it, period. djean111 Jan 2015 #46

Thanks for the link! PearliePoo2 Jan 2015 #152

Gee, and I thought your real point was that no one should merrily Jan 2015 #65

No telling what folks will label other folks with. Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #67

Didn't label you with anything, just pointed out merrily Jan 2015 #70

Meat labeling changes is another whine nilesobek Jan 2015 #111

The system required to track each piece of beef is expensive. Instead of guessing the cost, ask Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #113

I'm only talking about country of origin labeling right now. nilesobek Jan 2015 #117

It's not costly to label it. It's costly to produce it in the US, under minimal standards of NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #104

A uniform safety code is no value if the safety codes in some countries are not enforced. JDPriestly Jan 2015 #95

What's your beef with valid points? merrily Jan 2015 #63

Thank you. I'm disgusted at the number of people here on DU who Nay Jan 2015 #120

You're welcome. merrily Jan 2015 #148

Totally DISAGREE With Your Reasoning About WHY ChiciB1 Jan 2015 #91

WHAT'S YOUR PIECE HAVE TO DO WITH TPP? WE HAVE A REAL THREAT ABOUT TO BE UNLEASHED. INFORM. drynberg Jan 2015 #118

I admire you loyalty sulphurdunn Jan 2015 #123

Glad you asked but surprised that you needed. The TPP will cause extreme harm to the 99%. rhett o rick Jan 2015 #146

Check this out... L0oniX Jan 2015 #145

This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Jan 2015 #3

Note to DU (especially those who run it): FiveGoodMen Jan 2015 #4

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jan 2015 #7

Well said. n/t crim son Jan 2015 #10

You think they give a shit about the complicity? L0oniX Jan 2015 #20

voting only means that you approve of the oligarchy system that doesn't really give a fuck about us. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #107

So don't vote already. Hekate Jan 2015 #108

Enjoy your voting for the oligarchy. L0oniX Jan 2015 #154

Voting IS the oligarchy's system! Brought to you by Diebold�! DeSwiss Jan 2015 #110

You know very well that "Underground" refers to our place during the BushCheney regime... Hekate Jan 2015 #109

It doesn't say we have to vote for poseurs, people pretending to be Democrats. Democrats sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #142

I'll vote for a REAL DEMOCRAT! L0oniX Jan 2015 #155

I think this is a ToS violation, or at least a call to abandon the franchise; but, ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #119

Has this person answered yet? Pretty irresponsible to make that statement and then walk away randys1 Jan 2015 #126

Nope ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #128

I can understand ignoring you, you seem to ask uncomfortable questions all the time, who in the heck randys1 Jan 2015 #130

LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #132

yes. ellenrr Jan 2015 #25

And very interestingly - a pro-Keystone Pipeline ad is now on the truedelphi Jan 2015 #31

The site admins don't chose the ads placed. Dr Hobbitstein Jan 2015 #137

Very good to know. truedelphi Jan 2015 #140

Screen cap it if you can... Dr Hobbitstein Jan 2015 #141

it's exhibit A AtomicKitten Jan 2015 #36

To be fair . . . markpkessinger Jan 2015 #49

Critical or factually accurate? merrily Jan 2015 #81

Both markpkessinger Jan 2015 #84

I wasn't referring to the site admins at all. merrily Jan 2015 #85

The post I originally replied to was titled, "Note to DU (especially those who run it)" markpkessinger Jan 2015 #86

Thanks. "Especially" is not a synonym for "exclusively;" and the 3 admins are by no means all merrily Jan 2015 #153

Yep. 840high Jan 2015 #55

Exactly. The FFs warned against party politics and we are seeing now what they sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #66

If you believe the FFs warned against party politics, then a Dem forum is about fighting the FFs muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #131

'Warned against' meaning they predicted that political parites would sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #144

who does that? VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #72

Lol! Katashi_itto Jan 2015 #114

What did they tell you about why they were ardent devotees? That is the story of the answer to your TheKentuckian Jan 2015 #149

No I asked YOU....they are both dead....WHAT do YOU mean... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #162

Why are you going to ask a stranger about the motivations of your relations? TheKentuckian Jan 2015 #164

I am not going to ask that.....I am ASKING why YOU think being a loyal Democrat.... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #165

You inspired me to say this... MrMickeysMom Jan 2015 #79

A lot of complicity indeed. And it gets more obvious day by day. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #105

Principles like locking up Japanese Americans in Dr Hobbitstein Jan 2015 #138

k & fucking r! n/t wildbilln864 Jan 2015 #5

Take a look at my 'toon at the top of "GOOD READS." gregcrawford Jan 2015 #6

But..but..some of those CEOs give money to the party that wants money out of politics! Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2015 #8

Strangely, it may be the the Party of No (R) that puts the brakes on TPP progressoid Jan 2015 #9

Strange bedfellows indeed... daleanime Jan 2015 #17

The GOP is working hard with Obama to ram TPP through brentspeak Jan 2015 #134

How dare you! kentuck Jan 2015 #11

Link, please, to President Obama's quote about TPP rainbows and unicorns. blue neen Jan 2015 #12

Really--i'd like to see it, too....and gee, did we miss the SENATE VOTE on the TPP? MADem Jan 2015 #27

No, it has to be agreed to by the White House and then submitted to the Senate for ratification. former9thward Jan 2015 #44

From here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6032129 Maedhros Jan 2015 #32

RE: Editorial Sarcasm blue neen Jan 2015 #58

Agreed. Maedhros Jan 2015 #74

heated between.... paleotn Jan 2015 #82

I posted elsewhere a theory I'm formulating: Maedhros Jan 2015 #89

What is disingenuous about the OP? Do you doubt that the OP sincerely objects strongly to Obama's merrily Jan 2015 #76

Actually, I did not know full well that it did not exist. blue neen Jan 2015 #99

What on earth makes you think I feel threatened by your posts? merrily Jan 2015 #151

Did you even follow the link provided? paleotn Jan 2015 #80

Actually, I did. blue neen Jan 2015 #100

"opponents are ignorant of the benefits of trade" paleotn Jan 2015 #77

Hyperbole is both an acceptable device in writing and widely-recognized by readers. merrily Jan 2015 #73

That's true. blue neen Jan 2015 #103

Taking a subject seriously or asking for clarification are both different from asking for a link, merrily Jan 2015 #150

I believe he stated that those who oppose this disaster are 'ignorant' of sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #143

I'd love to find out what the corporations want from TPP. L0oniX Jan 2015 #156

My new year prediction is . . . the administration's pile of TPP horse manure will grow ever larger. pa28 Jan 2015 #13

why would he? why would the party deviate from its current path? MisterP Jan 2015 #14

We must invest wisely aspirant Jan 2015 #24

Will make them more likely to listen hughee99 Jan 2015 #127

When they reveal their true colors aspirant Jan 2015 #135

K&R.... daleanime Jan 2015 #15

K & R !!! WillyT Jan 2015 #16

Vote Hillary! UNDER EITHER PARTY WE GET A 1ST WORLD VERSION OF SOMALIA Katashi_itto Jan 2015 #18

And... the jury is back. hedda_foil Jan 2015 #19

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jan 2015 #21

A pathetic alert. They are getting desperate to shut out the truth. L0oniX Jan 2015 #22

REALLY desperate Skittles Jan 2015 #97

I think "shut the fuck up" *is* inappropriate and disrespectful BrotherIvan Jan 2015 #26

Obama is, essentially, telling US to "sit down and shut the fuck up." Maedhros Jan 2015 #33

I don't disagree that the President and Rahm have all told liberals to STFU BrotherIvan Jan 2015 #34

If it were my OP, I would have chosen other words simply to avoid the semantic argument altogether. Maedhros Jan 2015 #50

Yes, especially on this board, the language will be discussed, not the policy BrotherIvan Jan 2015 #53

TPP is wrong, disrespect of Obama is not new, here or anywhere. I think TPP is his payback randys1 Jan 2015 #54

Agreed BrotherIvan Jan 2015 #56

For them to NOT make the deal, they have to be elected President, right? randys1 Jan 2015 #60

I don't know the answer BrotherIvan Jan 2015 #62

Great you mention that, I remember hearing him say on "hardball" special edition college randys1 Jan 2015 #64

Well said! (nt) paleotn Jan 2015 #83

It's appropriate. 840high Jan 2015 #57

I'm not saying the post should be hidden and I do think it's important to fight the TPP BrotherIvan Jan 2015 #61

He got our vote ...and that's enough respect. L0oniX Jan 2015 #157

I am grateful to this jury. Curmudgeoness Jan 2015 #39

I thank this jury also. I personally don't think the language is necessary but I also rhett o rick Jan 2015 #52

Excellent. 840high Jan 2015 #59

yes, good jury decision, but what an asshole move to alert in the first place, ellenrr Jan 2015 #112

Dear President Obama: if the TPP is so wonderful why the dark cloak of secrecy? 99th_Monkey Jan 2015 #28

Because the oligarchy runs the show. L0oniX Jan 2015 #158

Looks like the megacorps are gonna get their way. Jester Messiah Jan 2015 #29

Grayson is out talking about this provision: SomethingFishy Jan 2015 #38

Excuse my ignorance oldlib2 Jan 2015 #41

There is really no excuse for your ignorance about the TPP, if you are going to post about it, djean111 Jan 2015 #47

I now know what TPP means. oldlib2 Jan 2015 #78

Educate Yourself before you post something. This is not a faith based message board. Tommymac Jan 2015 #75

"faith based message board" LMFAO L0oniX Jan 2015 #88

Dear President Obama, Please shut the f' up about TPP rainbows and unicorns... 48lowes Jan 2015 #139

Compromise is how 10 million people moved into poverty during this administration. jtuck004 Jan 2015 #90

INFORM YOURSELF ABOUT THE TERRIBLE TPP, NO EXCUSES. ACT. drynberg Jan 2015 #116

K&R! This post should have hundreds of recommendations! Enthusiast Jan 2015 #45

link to the rainbows and unicorns stonecutter357 Jan 2015 #48

K & R Thespian2 Jan 2015 #51

Shut the what up? I am not familiar with your posts, if you show respect to Obama randys1 Jan 2015 #68

Democrats are hostile to labor because we don't hold them accountable. fbc Jan 2015 #69

"You can smell it from here to Vietnam"... SidDithers Jan 2015 #71

TPP is a job killing, wealth sucking device to move wages/benefits from American workers into the blkmusclmachine Jan 2015 #87

Freedom of speech and all that treestar Jan 2015 #92

Kick....for all the great links & info above on this thread. here's a few more~ RiverLover Jan 2015 #93

+1, thanks for these whereisjustice Jan 2015 #94

I APPROVE OF THIS MESSAGE Skittles Jan 2015 #96

Over $400 mill has already been paid out to corps in a series of investor-state FTA cases RiverLover Jan 2015 #98

And so many of the good liberals here are on board with the cardboard shack too. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #102

Gee, I gave it a rec and it stayed at 149. Whis is that? TheNutcracker Jan 2015 #106

It will also render powerless every evironmental protection regulation . . . another_liberal Jan 2015 #115

Sadly we are far, very far from mainstream Democrats here. raouldukelives Jan 2015 #121

Like labor unions? 150 Democratic house members last year? All the people ag NAFTA? RiverLover Jan 2015 #122

While the people pushing it may be in the minority. The ones funding the pushers exist on both sides raouldukelives Jan 2015 #147

100% Agreed! raindaddy Jan 2015 #124

As long as they believe fredamae Jan 2015 #129

Here's what Obama promised~ RiverLover Jan 2015 #125

When I was campaigning for Obama in '08 Jakes Progress Jan 2015 #133

We share the same story, Jakes Progress RiverLover Jan 2015 #136

Whatchu got against unicorns? Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2015 #159

What is TPP? ann--- Jan 2015 #160

CEO's get pockets lined here too ramprat63 Jan 2015 #161

Jeez, all I wanted was a pony, they got unicorns now? hughee99 Jan 2015 #163