General Discussion

Phlem

(6,323 posts)

26. So basically this spoonful of

Sun Jan 4, 2015, 07:05 PM

Jan 2015

knowledge about the TPP seems rank enough to voice concerns. Maybe a reason why the whole stinking pile is a secret. And even so, "the devil is in the details" is always going to be an issue. I have no reason to believe this TRADE AGREEMENT is going to be any better than others in the past, until we see it all. Because if it's so fucking good why does it need to be secret. And to have to voice concerns about the above issues in the first place means it's not written for the public's best interest.

Trade agreements mean there are people working on good and products for sale to other places instead of just the US. Meaning the worker will feel the brunt of it's effects whether they are good or not cause we all know corporations are so fair when dealing with their workers. That's just 1 thing.

Reading what has been provided above doesn't make me feel any better about it, in fact it makes it worse.

"He must be like the lunatic fringe here on DU." really? Agreeing to fast track the TPP without picking it over with a fine tooth comb is *NOT* lunatic?

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Who has read the TPP? Congressman Sander Levin (D) & here's what he says~ [View all] RiverLover Jan 2015 OP

, blkmusclmachine Jan 2015 #1

If the TPP was good for Americans, they'd have released it already. Think about it. grahamhgreen Jan 2015 #115

Great post Omaha Steve Jan 2015 #2

Thanks OS!! RiverLover Jan 2015 #10

tag belzabubba333 Jan 2015 #3

Seems to me,NAFTA started out with similar Wellstone ruled Jan 2015 #4

That's what I'm afraid of. I'm sure ex-Citi exec Fromam, our friendly USTR, is very pleased RiverLover Jan 2015 #12

Had forgotten about Wellstone ruled Jan 2015 #23

Why should the MSM do their jobs as the fourth branch of government, closeupready Jan 2015 #99

Which is, btw, ... staggerleem Jan 2015 #103

Not sure the Repubs are for it. According to what I've been told on DU, 60% of Dems sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #20

That info is incorrect. RiverLover Jan 2015 #31

The info is correct. It refers to Democrats in general, not Democratic politicians. pampango Jan 2015 #43

I missed that poll. I didn't think most Americans even knew about the TPP. RiverLover Jan 2015 #44

Sure. Here's the poll and the link to it. pampango Jan 2015 #48

Thanks! That's so weird. RiverLover Jan 2015 #52

We do trade less than any other country. Perhaps that is why its perceived importance is so low or pampango Jan 2015 #58

some information about "pampango" brentspeak Jan 2015 #59

Thanks. I am so amazed at everything I learn here at DU, everyday. RiverLover Jan 2015 #61

You posted a Hart Research poll yourself that showed similar results to Pew on support pampango Jan 2015 #81

Why are you so obsessed with this poll result? liberal_at_heart Jan 2015 #85

You may highly doubt whatever you wish to highly doubt. The republican base shares your doubts more pampango Jan 2015 #86

Oh I have no doubt that the Republican base hates it, but I am not buying that the liberal_at_heart Jan 2015 #87

And no one believes that the Democratic base "would support not bringing it to the public". pampango Jan 2015 #89

Republican base means nothing in this case. lark Jan 2015 #96

The republican base rarely means anything to their policiticans. The poll just shows what they think pampango Jan 2015 #100

Sadly true for lots of members of both parties lark Jan 2015 #136

That explains quite a lot, thanks. nt Union Scribe Jan 2015 #102

Of course, whether you support it is a personal decision. That 60% of Democrats support it pampango Jan 2015 #47

NAFTA was also a harbinger of doom...it has not been. As well, I do not think Obama will trade Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #88

Bullshit! L0oniX Jan 2015 #91

Wages in both Mexico and the US have gone down since NAFTA. lark Jan 2015 #97

Actually manufacturing wages fell from 1972 to 1995 long before NAFTA, rose after NAFTA until pampango Jan 2015 #105

Nice. Levin has a good understanding of what is important. n/t pampango Jan 2015 #5

K&R AtomicKitten Jan 2015 #6

a big K & R.... dhill926 Jan 2015 #7

The well-meaning Congressman needs to wait to see the FINALIZED version before... stillwaiting Jan 2015 #8

He obviously needs a civics lesson. He just doesn't know how politics work, if he did he wouldn't Autumn Jan 2015 #56

So, you favor a draft of a treaty that gives away all of our governmental rights to foreign corps? lark Jan 2015 #98

My sarcasm tag applies to my whole post. stillwaiting Jan 2015 #126

Bookmarking. Puglover Jan 2015 #9

No doubt, they'll be arriving any moment... beerandjesus Jan 2015 #19

If another shirtless bathing beauty pinup photo emerges, QC Jan 2015 #32

Does Eddie Vetter count? RiverLover Jan 2015 #39

Is he shirtless? n/t QC Jan 2015 #40

I did not think they could get any worse but they have Skittles Jan 2015 #67

Hm. Meanwhile, in another thread, I got told... beerandjesus Jan 2015 #84

They got a few of my posts hidden over using that "w" word. L0oniX Jan 2015 #93

what kills me is Skittles Jan 2015 #119

I have always thought that. Puglover Jan 2015 #120

if you relieve somone of all responsibility, you also negate their intelligence Skittles Jan 2015 #121

Well there are those irresistible doggy pictures. L0oniX Jan 2015 #92

good resource, thanks whereisjustice Jan 2015 #11

Thanks for the post madfloridian Jan 2015 #13

If we translate the political-speak... it's what he didn't say that is important whereisjustice Jan 2015 #14

We know it 'fucks the environment', the laws that were so hard fought for here, because of sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #21

Great post. RiverLover Jan 2015 #37

I can't imagine a TPP passing that doesn't do those things. I get concern/fear, Hoyt Jan 2015 #15

Levin, we know better. The TPP will never benefit us. It will only benefit the few. Enthusiast Jan 2015 #16

There is always a reason.... sendero Jan 2015 #33

Correct. Enthusiast Jan 2015 #41

aww, Sen Levin didn't get a pony that shits rainbows Doctor_J Jan 2015 #17

Sadly, Senator Levin is retiring. dmr Jan 2015 #83

whatever happened to the value of the "what do you have to hide?" line stupidicus Jan 2015 #18

Council on Foreign Relations <--- easychoice Jan 2015 #22

Holy shit. RiverLover Jan 2015 #24

What would be your take on this YouTube segment? truedelphi Jan 2015 #78

she vacations with Rockefellers.This one about the time NAFTA rolled out. easychoice Jan 2015 #79

I always wondered who was really pulling the strings. nt RiverLover Jan 2015 #80

Wonder no more easychoice Jan 2015 #108

oh, a lap dog for the One Percent could never be my puppy. truedelphi Jan 2015 #112

Why do you insist on confusing the issue Jackpine Radical Jan 2015 #25

That's right JPR! RiverLover Jan 2015 #28

So basically this spoonful of Phlem Jan 2015 #26

I guess you missed the giant SARCASM thingie. RiverLover Jan 2015 #27

It's really not that giant and I'm functioning on maybe Phlem Jan 2015 #29

Hope you feel much better very soon!! RiverLover Jan 2015 #35

Thanks Bud. Phlem Jan 2015 #38

Fast Track means they have to give it an up or down vote as it stands, not that they have to rush it Recursion Jan 2015 #73

I understand this but what if it's voted up? Phlem Jan 2015 #106

With republican majorities in both houses I'm not sure I want them "editing" or "changing" it. pampango Jan 2015 #109

The TPP is awful as it sit sits. Phlem Jan 2015 #110

That is your opinion and that is fine. Let us just hope that Obama does not submit it to congress pampango Jan 2015 #113

Not just my opinion Chief. Phlem Jan 2015 #114

Obviously not. But it is not the opinion of a majority of Democrats. pampango Jan 2015 #117

Unfortunately it is not the opinion of the Democratic majority, that is plain as day, Phlem Jan 2015 #118

I don't think trade deals or a a lack thereof will solve our problems. That's not what history shows pampango Jan 2015 #122

Agreed. Phlem Jan 2015 #131

This trade agrement will benefit the US worker just like the last ones did. imthevicar Jan 2015 #30

Exactly. RiverLover Jan 2015 #36

You mean the economy might be like the mid to late 90s again? Sign me up Recursion Jan 2015 #66

Nice, but Perot's excellent PR gimmick - the "giant sucking sound" - trumps any actual evidence pampango Jan 2015 #82

+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 Phlem Jan 2015 #107

Clinton was a shill for the banks, imthevicar Jan 2015 #125

Well, no, it was the banks who were never covered by Glass-Steagall to begin with that crashed Recursion Jan 2015 #135

Glass-Steagall Kept Banks, Investment houses and Insurance companies apart. imthevicar Jan 2015 #138

The four investment houses and AIG were what crashed Recursion Jan 2015 #139

I'd rather have something that lasts Phlem Jan 2015 #111

It lasted until Bush mismanaged it. It's hard for anything to survive that. n/t pampango Jan 2015 #127

You mean the dot com bubble. imthevicar Jan 2015 #124

Manufacturing jobs and wages increased. Were those part of the dot com bubble, too? n/t pampango Jan 2015 #128

Yep and so was the POP! imthevicar Jan 2015 #130

CEO's are workers too. L0oniX Jan 2015 #123

FYI- "President Obama will seek to enlist Republicans to partner on a major push on trade deals." RiverLover Jan 2015 #34

TPP is like a divorce decree it's not real until it is signed and filed. CK_John Jan 2015 #42

Yeah but as soon as Congress alots the TPP the 88 seconds that Bernie Sanders truedelphi Jan 2015 #49

I assure you. It's real. It's the end of democracy. grahamhgreen Jan 2015 #116

It's more like an arranged marriage, w/ unknown rules & multiple partners you don't know well, RiverLover Jan 2015 #134

Yeah well those usual suspects are missing from your thread. Rex Jan 2015 #45

It is a rather tragic situation when the man we all believed in on Nov 5th 2008 truedelphi Jan 2015 #46

I never, ever would have believed it. RiverLover Jan 2015 #53

He's also worse on education and arresting protesters. liberal_at_heart Jan 2015 #71

I had no idea any member of congress was "working" on the TPP, cadaverdog Jan 2015 #50

Here is what we need to do randys1 Jan 2015 #51

I love it! RiverLover Jan 2015 #54

Which happened long before Obama became president, thus my impatience with all the Obama bashing randys1 Jan 2015 #55

Complaining about the TPP does not equal "Obama bashing". Are you of the group rhett o rick Jan 2015 #64

Show me anyone here that says that..............and I will argue with them randys1 Jan 2015 #101

There is Obama bashing because he does nothing to try and reverse the 30 years of liberal_at_heart Jan 2015 #69

Nothing? I dont think that is correct. Look, I am of the group who says the following: randys1 Jan 2015 #104

+++! Owl Jan 2015 #62

I thought we don't walk in lock step treestar Jan 2015 #57

So did he really read the whole 28 pages, only allowed to be released newfie11 Jan 2015 #60

Thank you, Congressman Levin! Octafish Jan 2015 #63

The sticking point seems to be the US's insistence that this keep the current bilateral agreements Recursion Jan 2015 #65

I agree, lets have a long and transparent debate on the tpp, and not fast track it. midnight Jan 2015 #68

who here wants 'corporate tribunals'? make yourself known! quadrature Jan 2015 #70

We've had them for decades, since before GATT even Recursion Jan 2015 #72

among other things bad... the US will be outvoted by dozens of countries like ... quadrature Jan 2015 #74

That's why the USTR has made such a point of keeping this as several bilats Recursion Jan 2015 #75

protect Hollywood, screw the rest of the US, quadrature Jan 2015 #76

Well, also ADM, Ford, and Boeing. (nt) Recursion Jan 2015 #77

What in particular will change? About 12 more countries & 54K more foreign corps will be able to RiverLover Jan 2015 #132

Which countries will be able to sue then that can't sue now? Recursion Jan 2015 #133

If TPP passes, those countries' corporations can sue US through investor-state settlement disputes. RiverLover Jan 2015 #137

+1 lunatic here. L0oniX Jan 2015 #90

Count me as one of the lunatic fringe then. blackspade Jan 2015 #94

k and r and bookmarking. niyad Jan 2015 #95

Excellent. Ramses Jan 2015 #129