General Discussion

DetlefK

(16,670 posts)

7. But Putin has no problem with NATO-bases in Latvia andsoforth.

Reply to another_liberal (Original post)

Mon Jan 5, 2015, 08:54 AM

Jan 2015

I guess, Putin is having a simple problem:
First, he whipped up the ukrainian rebels to secede.
Secession doesn't come quick enough to make facts on the ground, problems ensue.
So Putin tries to scale his demands down from secession to keeping NATO away, but that doesn't work either:
- He cannot do it publicly or it will be seen as capitulation.
- He cannot negotiate with Ukraine on an open basis after demonifying them as Nazis and mass-murderers.
- He has to talk the ukrainian rebels out of secession and they don't want to stop. He cannot withdraw his support for the ukrainian rebels or they might take revenge on him and e.g. spill the beans.

Russia could end this within a week:
- End all military support for the rebels. Invite international observers.
- Ukraine keeps Eastern Ukraine but gets a federal structure for more local government to prevent discrimination of Russians.
- Ukraine stays out of NATO for 20 years.

But if Putin offers such a peace-roadmap, it might be seen as capitulation and he personally can't have that.

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Time to end sanctions against Russia, says French President. [View all] another_liberal Jan 2015 OP

He's a putin lover...nt Jesus Malverde Jan 2015 #1

I seriously doubt he even has a crush on the Russian President . . . another_liberal Jan 2015 #2

jking...lighten up my friend Jesus Malverde Jan 2015 #9

Ah . . . another_liberal Jan 2015 #35

What Hollande really said ... Bad Thoughts Jan 2015 #3

The ONLY source he uses is RT. hobbit709 Jan 2015 #4

Hollande's comments were at best "diplomatic" Bad Thoughts Jan 2015 #5

all you need to know about rt, right here arely staircase Jan 2015 #48

RT, Russia trash talk.... Historic NY Jan 2015 #76

Thanks for the suggestion . . . another_liberal Jan 2015 #10

I offered the complete quote from the interview, as represented in Le Monde Bad Thoughts Jan 2015 #11

You thank me for doing what? another_liberal Jan 2015 #13

seriously? his name transliterates into "gravy-soaked french fries"? foo_bar Jan 2015 #47

You forgot the curds. nt msanthrope Jan 2015 #55

Thanks for the clear and precise interpretation. Hutzpa Jan 2015 #66

Time to throw France under the bus. Warren Stupidity Jan 2015 #6

They do stand to lose a lot more in a military confrontation with Russia than we do . . . another_liberal Jan 2015 #15

But Putin has no problem with NATO-bases in Latvia andsoforth. DetlefK Jan 2015 #7

You really think President Putin had to "whip-up" the ethnic Russians? another_liberal Jan 2015 #16

Yes, following a decade long attempted Ukranian genocide of their own ethnic Russian citizens. Xithras Jan 2015 #41

RT. LOL... SidDithers Jan 2015 #8

"The sanctions must be lifted if there is progress. If there is no progress the sanctions will stay pampango Jan 2015 #12

Then lets all hope there is indeed "progress" . . . another_liberal Jan 2015 #14

I still don't see where he said it's time to lift the sanctions. Iggo Jan 2015 #17

First sentence in the article . . . another_liberal Jan 2015 #19

I can see that he wants it. I just don't see where he says now is the time. Iggo Jan 2015 #20

I would imagine he would prefer to have had them removed already . . . another_liberal Jan 2015 #24

Then you should have put that in your headline. Iggo Jan 2015 #26

You are free to write an OP that way if you wish . . . another_liberal Jan 2015 #32

Then you will continue to be wrong. Iggo Jan 2015 #34

Is it really . . . another_liberal Jan 2015 #36

What you posted is not true. That ain't splittin' hairs, bud. Iggo Jan 2015 #37

We'll see what happens . . . another_liberal Jan 2015 #52

And this dog looks like your leader. tradewinds Jan 2015 #56

Neither your headline edhopper Jan 2015 #18

You are welcome to your opinion . . . another_liberal Jan 2015 #21

It's not an opinion, it's fact. MohRokTah Jan 2015 #23

That is also an opinion . . . another_liberal Jan 2015 #25

It certainly allows you to validate your own biases... LanternWaste Jan 2015 #50

It's not an opinion edhopper Jan 2015 #27

I disagree . . . another_liberal Jan 2015 #29

But you take a blatant lie and call it true MohRokTah Jan 2015 #30

We know you are not reaching your own conclusions edhopper Jan 2015 #57

If RT publishes it, you KNOW it's a lie. MohRokTah Jan 2015 #22

And another personal opinion . . . another_liberal Jan 2015 #28

Nope, fact. eom MohRokTah Jan 2015 #31

Your love affair with all that is putin raises questions about your motives for posting. tradewinds Jan 2015 #33

My, "Love affair with all that is Putin?" another_liberal Jan 2015 #38

A little treat for you. tradewinds Jan 2015 #40

I never cease to be amazed at how some people love to repost and repost shirtless Putin pictures. another_liberal Jan 2015 #42

Nope, just for you. tradewinds Jan 2015 #44

I'm my own "leader" . . . another_liberal Jan 2015 #46

Sure. one more for you: tradewinds Jan 2015 #53

No more and no less than it's the same for those who post only pro-Russian propaganda from the Russi LanternWaste Jan 2015 #51

LOL... R3druM Jan 2015 #39

Hi, R3, haven't seem much from you lately . . . another_liberal Jan 2015 #43

So an informant actually living in Russia tells you your source is not to be trusted: Denzil_DC Jan 2015 #68

Maybe you know who R3 really is, . . . another_liberal Jan 2015 #69

"Remember: Don't bet the farm on anything and don't unquestioningly trust any source." Denzil_DC Jan 2015 #72

That is your prerogative . . . another_liberal Jan 2015 #74

And you only trust shirtless oligarchs who ride bears? tradewinds Jan 2015 #77

"I'm just trying to find out what's really going on in the World." Denzil_DC Jan 2015 #80

Back to that again? another_liberal Jan 2015 #81

Your spin is unbelievable. Denzil_DC Jan 2015 #83

That is your reading of his intent, yes. another_liberal Jan 2015 #84

Many sanctions regimes over years have had adverse effects on the states imposing the sanctions. Denzil_DC Jan 2015 #85

This message was self-deleted by its author Denzil_DC Jan 2015 #67

So is Russia witholding that last payment till that French warship gets delivered? GOLGO 13 Jan 2015 #45

Last I heard they are threatening to take France to court . . . another_liberal Jan 2015 #49

So we don't allow Fox or WND... NuclearDem Jan 2015 #54

Does anyone have the full text of what the French President said? NCTraveler Jan 2015 #58

Bumping. NCTraveler Jan 2015 #59

You'd be hard pressed to find an outlet without an agenda. Denzil_DC Jan 2015 #60

I first started lurking here over ten years ago. NCTraveler Jan 2015 #61

Agreed, information can get lost among the noise. Denzil_DC Jan 2015 #62

Who said Hollande wants an "unconditional end" to sanctions? another_liberal Jan 2015 #82

You could frame it as "Hollande wants Russia promptly out of Ukraine." Denzil_DC Jan 2015 #86

I took the French quote from Le Monde (you can see it above) Bad Thoughts Jan 2015 #63

Yes, it does seem clear, Denzil_DC Jan 2015 #64

�Mr. Putin does not want to annex eastern Ukraine. I am sure. He told me so,� bluesbassman Jan 2015 #65

Hollande did not say, "I am sure." Bad Thoughts Jan 2015 #70

Good question . . . another_liberal Jan 2015 #71

he's right, if the russian economy tanks further, we could be looking at another global slowdown La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2015 #73

Right you are . . . another_liberal Jan 2015 #75

They should stop annexing shit if they want La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2015 #79

And if they want to continue to be "Rich" . . . another_liberal Jan 2015 #87

No, the rest of g8 will be fine without Russia La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2015 #89

To a certain extent, yes, that is true . . . another_liberal Jan 2015 #90

There will be a slowdown but I suspect the g8 La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2015 #92

Why didn't he just say they need the cash Russia has... Historic NY Jan 2015 #78

And money is what economic warfare, such as trade sanctions, is always about . . . another_liberal Jan 2015 #88

It is rather often. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #91