General Discussion

lark

(26,074 posts)

97. Wages in both Mexico and the US have gone down since NAFTA.

Mon Jan 5, 2015, 01:45 PM

Jan 2015

That may not mean anything to you personally, but to many American families it has doomed them to a life of poverty.

He's pushing a treaty that removes the sovereignty of American labor laws and American environmental regulations. That's why liberals are against it.

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Who has read the TPP? Congressman Sander Levin (D) & here's what he says~ [View all] RiverLover Jan 2015 OP

, blkmusclmachine Jan 2015 #1

If the TPP was good for Americans, they'd have released it already. Think about it. grahamhgreen Jan 2015 #115

Great post Omaha Steve Jan 2015 #2

Thanks OS!! RiverLover Jan 2015 #10

tag belzabubba333 Jan 2015 #3

Seems to me,NAFTA started out with similar Wellstone ruled Jan 2015 #4

That's what I'm afraid of. I'm sure ex-Citi exec Fromam, our friendly USTR, is very pleased RiverLover Jan 2015 #12

Had forgotten about Wellstone ruled Jan 2015 #23

Why should the MSM do their jobs as the fourth branch of government, closeupready Jan 2015 #99

Which is, btw, ... staggerleem Jan 2015 #103

Not sure the Repubs are for it. According to what I've been told on DU, 60% of Dems sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #20

That info is incorrect. RiverLover Jan 2015 #31

The info is correct. It refers to Democrats in general, not Democratic politicians. pampango Jan 2015 #43

I missed that poll. I didn't think most Americans even knew about the TPP. RiverLover Jan 2015 #44

Sure. Here's the poll and the link to it. pampango Jan 2015 #48

Thanks! That's so weird. RiverLover Jan 2015 #52

We do trade less than any other country. Perhaps that is why its perceived importance is so low or pampango Jan 2015 #58

some information about "pampango" brentspeak Jan 2015 #59

Thanks. I am so amazed at everything I learn here at DU, everyday. RiverLover Jan 2015 #61

You posted a Hart Research poll yourself that showed similar results to Pew on support pampango Jan 2015 #81

Why are you so obsessed with this poll result? liberal_at_heart Jan 2015 #85

You may highly doubt whatever you wish to highly doubt. The republican base shares your doubts more pampango Jan 2015 #86

Oh I have no doubt that the Republican base hates it, but I am not buying that the liberal_at_heart Jan 2015 #87

And no one believes that the Democratic base "would support not bringing it to the public". pampango Jan 2015 #89

Republican base means nothing in this case. lark Jan 2015 #96

The republican base rarely means anything to their policiticans. The poll just shows what they think pampango Jan 2015 #100

Sadly true for lots of members of both parties lark Jan 2015 #136

That explains quite a lot, thanks. nt Union Scribe Jan 2015 #102

Of course, whether you support it is a personal decision. That 60% of Democrats support it pampango Jan 2015 #47

NAFTA was also a harbinger of doom...it has not been. As well, I do not think Obama will trade Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #88

Bullshit! L0oniX Jan 2015 #91

Wages in both Mexico and the US have gone down since NAFTA. lark Jan 2015 #97

Actually manufacturing wages fell from 1972 to 1995 long before NAFTA, rose after NAFTA until pampango Jan 2015 #105

Nice. Levin has a good understanding of what is important. n/t pampango Jan 2015 #5

K&R AtomicKitten Jan 2015 #6

a big K & R.... dhill926 Jan 2015 #7

The well-meaning Congressman needs to wait to see the FINALIZED version before... stillwaiting Jan 2015 #8

He obviously needs a civics lesson. He just doesn't know how politics work, if he did he wouldn't Autumn Jan 2015 #56

So, you favor a draft of a treaty that gives away all of our governmental rights to foreign corps? lark Jan 2015 #98

My sarcasm tag applies to my whole post. stillwaiting Jan 2015 #126

Bookmarking. Puglover Jan 2015 #9

No doubt, they'll be arriving any moment... beerandjesus Jan 2015 #19

If another shirtless bathing beauty pinup photo emerges, QC Jan 2015 #32

Does Eddie Vetter count? RiverLover Jan 2015 #39

Is he shirtless? n/t QC Jan 2015 #40

I did not think they could get any worse but they have Skittles Jan 2015 #67

Hm. Meanwhile, in another thread, I got told... beerandjesus Jan 2015 #84

They got a few of my posts hidden over using that "w" word. L0oniX Jan 2015 #93

what kills me is Skittles Jan 2015 #119

I have always thought that. Puglover Jan 2015 #120

if you relieve somone of all responsibility, you also negate their intelligence Skittles Jan 2015 #121

Well there are those irresistible doggy pictures. L0oniX Jan 2015 #92

good resource, thanks whereisjustice Jan 2015 #11

Thanks for the post madfloridian Jan 2015 #13

If we translate the political-speak... it's what he didn't say that is important whereisjustice Jan 2015 #14

We know it 'fucks the environment', the laws that were so hard fought for here, because of sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #21

Great post. RiverLover Jan 2015 #37

I can't imagine a TPP passing that doesn't do those things. I get concern/fear, Hoyt Jan 2015 #15

Levin, we know better. The TPP will never benefit us. It will only benefit the few. Enthusiast Jan 2015 #16

There is always a reason.... sendero Jan 2015 #33

Correct. Enthusiast Jan 2015 #41

aww, Sen Levin didn't get a pony that shits rainbows Doctor_J Jan 2015 #17

Sadly, Senator Levin is retiring. dmr Jan 2015 #83

whatever happened to the value of the "what do you have to hide?" line stupidicus Jan 2015 #18

Council on Foreign Relations <--- easychoice Jan 2015 #22

Holy shit. RiverLover Jan 2015 #24

What would be your take on this YouTube segment? truedelphi Jan 2015 #78

she vacations with Rockefellers.This one about the time NAFTA rolled out. easychoice Jan 2015 #79

I always wondered who was really pulling the strings. nt RiverLover Jan 2015 #80

Wonder no more easychoice Jan 2015 #108

oh, a lap dog for the One Percent could never be my puppy. truedelphi Jan 2015 #112

Why do you insist on confusing the issue Jackpine Radical Jan 2015 #25

That's right JPR! RiverLover Jan 2015 #28

So basically this spoonful of Phlem Jan 2015 #26

I guess you missed the giant SARCASM thingie. RiverLover Jan 2015 #27

It's really not that giant and I'm functioning on maybe Phlem Jan 2015 #29

Hope you feel much better very soon!! RiverLover Jan 2015 #35

Thanks Bud. Phlem Jan 2015 #38

Fast Track means they have to give it an up or down vote as it stands, not that they have to rush it Recursion Jan 2015 #73

I understand this but what if it's voted up? Phlem Jan 2015 #106

With republican majorities in both houses I'm not sure I want them "editing" or "changing" it. pampango Jan 2015 #109

The TPP is awful as it sit sits. Phlem Jan 2015 #110

That is your opinion and that is fine. Let us just hope that Obama does not submit it to congress pampango Jan 2015 #113

Not just my opinion Chief. Phlem Jan 2015 #114

Obviously not. But it is not the opinion of a majority of Democrats. pampango Jan 2015 #117

Unfortunately it is not the opinion of the Democratic majority, that is plain as day, Phlem Jan 2015 #118

I don't think trade deals or a a lack thereof will solve our problems. That's not what history shows pampango Jan 2015 #122

Agreed. Phlem Jan 2015 #131

This trade agrement will benefit the US worker just like the last ones did. imthevicar Jan 2015 #30

Exactly. RiverLover Jan 2015 #36

You mean the economy might be like the mid to late 90s again? Sign me up Recursion Jan 2015 #66

Nice, but Perot's excellent PR gimmick - the "giant sucking sound" - trumps any actual evidence pampango Jan 2015 #82

+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 Phlem Jan 2015 #107

Clinton was a shill for the banks, imthevicar Jan 2015 #125

Well, no, it was the banks who were never covered by Glass-Steagall to begin with that crashed Recursion Jan 2015 #135

Glass-Steagall Kept Banks, Investment houses and Insurance companies apart. imthevicar Jan 2015 #138

The four investment houses and AIG were what crashed Recursion Jan 2015 #139

I'd rather have something that lasts Phlem Jan 2015 #111

It lasted until Bush mismanaged it. It's hard for anything to survive that. n/t pampango Jan 2015 #127

You mean the dot com bubble. imthevicar Jan 2015 #124

Manufacturing jobs and wages increased. Were those part of the dot com bubble, too? n/t pampango Jan 2015 #128

Yep and so was the POP! imthevicar Jan 2015 #130

CEO's are workers too. L0oniX Jan 2015 #123

FYI- "President Obama will seek to enlist Republicans to partner on a major push on trade deals." RiverLover Jan 2015 #34

TPP is like a divorce decree it's not real until it is signed and filed. CK_John Jan 2015 #42

Yeah but as soon as Congress alots the TPP the 88 seconds that Bernie Sanders truedelphi Jan 2015 #49

I assure you. It's real. It's the end of democracy. grahamhgreen Jan 2015 #116

It's more like an arranged marriage, w/ unknown rules & multiple partners you don't know well, RiverLover Jan 2015 #134

Yeah well those usual suspects are missing from your thread. Rex Jan 2015 #45

It is a rather tragic situation when the man we all believed in on Nov 5th 2008 truedelphi Jan 2015 #46

I never, ever would have believed it. RiverLover Jan 2015 #53

He's also worse on education and arresting protesters. liberal_at_heart Jan 2015 #71

I had no idea any member of congress was "working" on the TPP, cadaverdog Jan 2015 #50

Here is what we need to do randys1 Jan 2015 #51

I love it! RiverLover Jan 2015 #54

Which happened long before Obama became president, thus my impatience with all the Obama bashing randys1 Jan 2015 #55

Complaining about the TPP does not equal "Obama bashing". Are you of the group rhett o rick Jan 2015 #64

Show me anyone here that says that..............and I will argue with them randys1 Jan 2015 #101

There is Obama bashing because he does nothing to try and reverse the 30 years of liberal_at_heart Jan 2015 #69

Nothing? I dont think that is correct. Look, I am of the group who says the following: randys1 Jan 2015 #104

+++! Owl Jan 2015 #62

I thought we don't walk in lock step treestar Jan 2015 #57

So did he really read the whole 28 pages, only allowed to be released newfie11 Jan 2015 #60

Thank you, Congressman Levin! Octafish Jan 2015 #63

The sticking point seems to be the US's insistence that this keep the current bilateral agreements Recursion Jan 2015 #65

I agree, lets have a long and transparent debate on the tpp, and not fast track it. midnight Jan 2015 #68

who here wants 'corporate tribunals'? make yourself known! quadrature Jan 2015 #70

We've had them for decades, since before GATT even Recursion Jan 2015 #72

among other things bad... the US will be outvoted by dozens of countries like ... quadrature Jan 2015 #74

That's why the USTR has made such a point of keeping this as several bilats Recursion Jan 2015 #75

protect Hollywood, screw the rest of the US, quadrature Jan 2015 #76

Well, also ADM, Ford, and Boeing. (nt) Recursion Jan 2015 #77

What in particular will change? About 12 more countries & 54K more foreign corps will be able to RiverLover Jan 2015 #132

Which countries will be able to sue then that can't sue now? Recursion Jan 2015 #133

If TPP passes, those countries' corporations can sue US through investor-state settlement disputes. RiverLover Jan 2015 #137

+1 lunatic here. L0oniX Jan 2015 #90

Count me as one of the lunatic fringe then. blackspade Jan 2015 #94

k and r and bookmarking. niyad Jan 2015 #95

Excellent. Ramses Jan 2015 #129