General Discussion

alarimer

(17,146 posts)

49. No belief should be free from ridicule or mockery.

Thu Jan 8, 2015, 01:33 PM

Jan 2015

To put some beliefs off limits from satire out of fear is to buy into the notion that adherents of said beliefs are a time bomb waiting to go off. The vast majority are not. The rest are extremists and the sooner they learn that we will not be cowed into kowtowing to them, the better off we will all be.

Your sacred beliefs are not sacred to me and I have no particular obligation to avoid offending you. No one gets to go through life without ever being offended. I'm offended 15 times a day by one thing or another. But then I do not live in a bubble in which I am never exposed to alternative beliefs. Too many religious people try to do that, what with their segregated communities and schools. That's fine, if that's what they want to do.

Now there is a difference between mocking a belief and mocking a person holding that belief. And offending for offending's sake is problematic. But I don't think that's what the cartoonists were doing. There was a larger point to their satire.

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John Likes To Remind People That Religion Is Not A Race... [View all] Turborama Jan 2015 OP

This will be one of the big debates of the next decade i suspect el_bryanto Jan 2015 #1

Are culture and religion a choice? Spider Jerusalem Jan 2015 #2

As rational, thinking adults... cleanhippie Jan 2015 #4

I think that's giving too much credence to the idea that most people are rational, or think. Spider Jerusalem Jan 2015 #7

Agreed, but irrelevant. cleanhippie Jan 2015 #8

Aside from the white supremist part, I am that person! Coventina Jan 2015 #9

Right on! cleanhippie Jan 2015 #11

Culture not so much, religion is absolutley a choice in America. Rex Jan 2015 #64

This is the key distinction. Dr. Strange Jan 2015 #3

People identify with their religion more than they might with a philosophy el_bryanto Jan 2015 #13

True, but people also identify with their moral values and if they are bad values they are Vattel Jan 2015 #18

"this would be the best of all possible worlds hfojvt Jan 2015 #40

I doubt we disagree about this. Criticism of a religion can be fair or unfair, respectful or hateful Vattel Jan 2015 #45

Is Objectionism where one keeps raising objections to things? muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #28

lol Turborama Jan 2015 #33

Objection! Dr. Strange Jan 2015 #62

Also there's a difference between discriminating against a belief and a person. Major Nikon Jan 2015 #16

Yep. It's the distinction between ideas/actions, and people. arcane1 Jan 2015 #57

Another important distinction. Dr. Strange Jan 2015 #66

. Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2015 #70

Haven't you and I quarreled over this very topic before? cleanhippie Jan 2015 #14

That's a very abbreviated summary our our discussions isn't it? el_bryanto Jan 2015 #15

For sure it is. Abbreviated, but accurate. cleanhippie Jan 2015 #17

Well I left the Religion forum for a reason. el_bryanto Jan 2015 #19

If you can't even admit that that was about a particular instance (that is still accurrate) cleanhippie Jan 2015 #23

Takes me back to the good old days. el_bryanto Jan 2015 #26

Indeed it does. right back to where you get frustrated when you cannot defend your position. cleanhippie Jan 2015 #29

I do identify with my religion, though. I didn't exclude myself above el_bryanto Jan 2015 #31

"That sort of argument implies that believers should stop believing..." cleanhippie Jan 2015 #41

OK - I should have been more exact el_bryanto Jan 2015 #44

With no snark or insult intended, you should learn the difference between 'imply' and 'infer'. cleanhippie Jan 2015 #48

Oh come on, we all know that if you say the world would be better off without religion, Warren Stupidity Jan 2015 #51

OK I'll go study that - that let's you feel that warm glow of intellectual superiority el_bryanto Jan 2015 #55

What the fuck? cleanhippie Jan 2015 #56

It's a simple question - am I wrong in assuming that you think the world would be better of el_bryanto Jan 2015 #58

You seem to need to equate my wanting religion to disappear with wanting humans that believe cleanhippie Jan 2015 #60

I'm not continuing el_bryanto Jan 2015 #61

Victory? Hardly. cleanhippie Jan 2015 #63

I see your point. nt el_bryanto Jan 2015 #73

one would have to be somewhat of a masochist to do so hfojvt Jan 2015 #30

Because you dislike the chosen belief system of someone doesn't make you a bigot. Arugula Latte Jan 2015 #5

Amen, Sister! Coventina Jan 2015 #6

It's both scary and sad that so many connot understand that concept. cleanhippie Jan 2015 #10

Recommended, and sometimes the blatantly obvious needs to be said. dissentient Jan 2015 #12

Thank you and agreed. Bonx Jan 2015 #25

Well put. n/t trotsky Jan 2015 #43

Bronze Age myths used to exploit and express. Throd Jan 2015 #52

Religions, unlike races, can be bad in various ways that make them merit criticism. Vattel Jan 2015 #20

I beg to differ meow2u3 Jan 2015 #21

unrec, belief systems, which are chosen, should never be above criticism. m-lekktor Jan 2015 #22

"John" exists, and is not "above criticism" either. Turborama Jan 2015 #24

A white Christian can convert to Islam, but can not convert to being Asian, thus a faith is not a Bluenorthwest Jan 2015 #32

You read "Muslim" into it. The OP doesn't contain that word. Turborama Jan 2015 #35

No, the religion that some people incorrectly claim is a race is Islam, that claim is not made about Bluenorthwest Jan 2015 #71

"John" exists, and in America most "Johns" are Republican. Turborama Jan 2015 #72

For anyone who's interested... Turborama Jan 2015 #27

Criticizing idealogies does not make one a xenophobic bigot RedCappedBandit Jan 2015 #34

Not always. Some people use it as a smokescreen to mask their xenophobic bigotry, though Turborama Jan 2015 #36

Fair enough. The hypothetical John does certainly exist. nt RedCappedBandit Jan 2015 #37

It's worth noting the reality that most Muslims would not be considered "white" by "Western" society YoungDemCA Jan 2015 #38

So being accurate about the meanings of words kiva Jan 2015 #39

How does that explain the hostility between Quantess Jan 2015 #42

People from discriminated against classes can discriminate against each other. stevenleser Jan 2015 #46

Point taken. The major difference between Israelis and Palestinians Quantess Jan 2015 #50

I am one to point out the distinction between race and religion. Quantess Jan 2015 #47

No belief should be free from ridicule or mockery. alarimer Jan 2015 #49

nah, it is fine to mock the people holding the beliefs too. Warren Stupidity Jan 2015 #53

Religion is not at all like race. Religion is an idea. I reserve the right to criticize ideas PeaceNikki Jan 2015 #54

It's frustrating that so many right here on DU are unable to understand that point. cleanhippie Jan 2015 #65

It's weird. DU (and plenty of other liberals) get so strange about Islam. PeaceNikki Jan 2015 #67

I have seen a lot of posts like this lately Kevin from WI Jan 2015 #59

Poor "John" the bigot. He's just afraid and misunderstood. n/t Turborama Jan 2015 #68

LOL Kevin from WI Jan 2015 #69