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AngryAmish

(25,704 posts)

24. What you blame on religion I blame on culture and nature

Thu Jan 8, 2015, 06:38 PM

Jan 2015

Any religion with 1.6 billion followers has many different people within it. Especially with no central authority.

However most of the Islamic world is tribal, tribal in a way that is alien to us in the West. In a lot of the Islamic world, who you are related to determines everything. Help your family, hurt those not related to you. The central obligation is to your family, your cousins, distant cousins, the tribe. You do something bad? Your family and tribe defend you to outsiders, then give you tons of shit at home for putting them to the bother. Your brother gets murdered, find the guy who did it and kill his brother, failing that some cousins. Collective responsibility, collective culpability.

This family and tribe (and to a further end a co-religionist) system of responsibility and obligation is alien to us. I think the widespread inbreeding in the middle east creates this mindset, but that is only an opinion. Most tribal cultures have widespread cousin marriage but there is a chicken and egg thing going on. Long and short, Much of Islam is alien to is and poorly understood. They like the way they are and are not changing. We should get used to it.

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Highlight:

"Norway Didn't Give in to Islamophobia, nor should France" [View all] sabrina 1 Jan 2015 OP

Islamophobia is bigotry and disgusting. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #1

Is it possible to criticize ANY Muslims without criticizing ALL Muslims? FrodosPet Jan 2015 #4

Yes it is, that is what people ought to be doing, especially here on this democratic site. sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #5

Blame an entire group for the actions of a few? RobertEarl Jan 2015 #32

What's the difference between that leftynyc Jan 2015 #68

Oh dayum, cwydro Jan 2015 #85

Folks keep bringing up this One True Scotsman thing. I fully understand it, I have no idea why it is Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #18

Of course, "MILLIONS of Muslims" - out of well over a billion - could be less than 1% of them. pampango Jan 2015 #19

Did I say you could not criticize Muslims? hrmjustin Jan 2015 #22

I agree. When we hear of a "small percentage", remember there are 1.6 Billion. 7962 Jan 2015 #34

Adding "phobia" to the end of the word Islam does not make it immune from analysis or criticism. Throd Jan 2015 #2

You seem to have missed the whole point of the article. sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #6

He hasn't "missed" the point, he simply disagrees with it ConservativeDemocrat Jan 2015 #45

Same here leftynyc Jan 2015 #69

And you make my point. Blaming all Muslims for the actions of fanatics is how this country sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #84

What a load of unmitigated crap leftynyc Jan 2015 #86

That wasn't my point at all. The point was, you are included in the blame aimed at the West sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #87

"Norway�s enlightened response could be a model elsewhere in Europe too. It would be the last thing pampango Jan 2015 #3

"Islamaphobia" is a silly word Prism Jan 2015 #7

So in your opinion all 1.6 billion Muslims hold the same views? I'm not sure what you are saying sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #9

All? Nope. Most? Yep. Prism Jan 2015 #11

It's underway -- Hell Hath No Fury Jan 2015 #13

And I do support them Prism Jan 2015 #15

You must not have had any interaction with Muslims. From different countries. sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #14

Nope Prism Jan 2015 #16

the Reformation was a disaster for gays and women and launched waves of war and persecution MisterP Jan 2015 #52

I can dislike the Catholic Church without disliking Catholics. pampango Jan 2015 #20

A thousand times this Prism Jan 2015 #38

What you blame on religion I blame on culture and nature AngryAmish Jan 2015 #24

But not in the West Prism Jan 2015 #30

My friend, we are of one mind on that question. AngryAmish Jan 2015 #39

America really doesn't have Europe's problem. Prism Jan 2015 #40

This is a really good point cemaphonic Jan 2015 #56

Muslims Around The World Condemn Charlie Hebdo Attack Violet_Crumble Jan 2015 #62

Thats a good one. I can see it: "homophobia"-- "That gay man scares me!!" 7962 Jan 2015 #35

Spot on. PeteSelman Jan 2015 #37

I do leftynyc Jan 2015 #74

Do you think there's bigotry against Muslims? If so, what would you call it? Violet_Crumble Jan 2015 #80

Yes Prism Jan 2015 #82

knr Douglas Carpenter Jan 2015 #8

Norway didn't have an attack by Islamist extremists - LeftinOH Jan 2015 #10

I thought the connection was made pretty well. Maybe if we substituted Muslims sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #12

They want you to hate a few of them and cause a war on all of them...do not give them what they want. Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #21

Uh, no? Science Crow Jan 2015 #28

So...you think their "belief system", or, decoded, "religion", justifies murder? Code words are easily cracked. Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #31

Yes. What is unclear for you? Telcontar Jan 2015 #57

Thanks for registering, jumping in, and explaining nothing, looks like that was your purpose...you Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #65

What is there to explain? Telcontar Jan 2015 #67

"Outsiders"? jberryhill Jan 2015 #33

i don't get the connection either. the Norwegian shooter wasn't a muslim m-lekktor Jan 2015 #64

Norway? You mean that socialist democracy? But they don't care about bootstraps or freedoms or valerief Jan 2015 #17

Thank you, sabrina 1. Octafish Jan 2015 #23

Thanks from Norway for this OP War Horse Jan 2015 #25

The most intelligent, 'seeing' comment here. pangaia Jan 2015 #29

Here is an article written by Salman Rushdie on the term Islmophobe iandhr Jan 2015 #26

We support those who are causing the suffering. Some of our best allies are and have been sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #41

He had a Fatwa put on his head for writing a book. iandhr Jan 2015 #46

Murder was committed, mass murder. Three suspects have been named. That is all. If you want to sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #47

I am not holding every Muslim responsible. iandhr Jan 2015 #48

Yes, and some of the Muslims I have spoken to despise those leaders and the fundies sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #50

Yes iandhr Jan 2015 #51

Rushdie's "opinions" are pretty hard-won though cemaphonic Jan 2015 #53

He's not at all unique in standing up to tyrants and he was in a fairly safe place by the time sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #54

Well, I am impressed by Rushdie, cheifly because he is an excellent novelist cemaphonic Jan 2015 #58

Wow, what an ignorant post Telcontar Jan 2015 #59

Terrible comparison MNBrewer Jan 2015 #27

+1 840high Jan 2015 #36

You totally missed the point of the article. But that's okay ... the comparison is excellent as it sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #42

The point of the article may have been that but the comparison is awful MNBrewer Jan 2015 #43

No, I think the more important point was made clear. Who cares what idiotic murderous sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #44

Ding Ding Ding iandhr Jan 2015 #49

I blame Islam for the shooting, not 1.6 billion muslims. Albertoo Jan 2015 #55

So who or what would you blame for our illegal invasion of Iraq, killing over one million sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #60

What has it got to do with anything? Albertoo Jan 2015 #66

Well now we know that leftynyc Jan 2015 #75

Were you a supporter of Bush/Cheney's invasion of Iraq? 'Freaks'? sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #78

No, I was not leftynyc Jan 2015 #79

knr Douglas Carpenter Jan 2015 #61

Yes, it's irresponsible to blame any Muslims other than those involved. True Blue Door Jan 2015 #63

Well then, what is your expertise with regard to Islam/the Koran? closeupready Jan 2015 #71

Vague at best, but well-versed in history. True Blue Door Jan 2015 #72

But if your knowledge of Islam is vague 'at best', then how can you claim closeupready Jan 2015 #73

"Islam" is the sum total of what people who self-describe as Muslims do. True Blue Door Jan 2015 #76

Ok, so you're just winging it, that's what I thought. closeupready Jan 2015 #77

Actually the radical right agrees with you. I know, I have engaged them on this very same sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #83

Kick. Thanks, Sabrina. closeupready Jan 2015 #70

Thank you azurnoir Jan 2015 #81