General Discussion

JustAnotherGen

(38,184 posts)

135. I'm not seeing that in 1Strong's post . . .

Fri Jan 9, 2015, 12:05 PM

Jan 2015

Or additional posts on this thread.

What makes you think he does?

I think - just my little opinion - that DU is trying to wrap our heads around the idea that France does indeed have limitations on speech and journalists and individual citizens . . . although their parameters remain strongly liberal (not in a political sense - but an expansive sense). And yet - there are people so angry and blinded by something as silly as religious fervor that they would walk into a publications office and murder people.

We are used to church's themselves being bombed and shot up. It comes from nowhere - just people worshipping or congregating as a community. A wingnut from cray cray town decides they don't 'like them ones' and all hell breaks loose. The most significant one happend what? 52 years ago?

Walking into a publication and shooting people is just well - foreign.

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I do not condone killing ... [View all] 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 OP

The answer is more free speech and protest. CJCRANE Jan 2015 #1

Yes. Jackpine Radical Jan 2015 #3

The way to fight offensive speech is with more speech. eom MohRokTah Jan 2015 #2

Post removed Post removed Jan 2015 #4

Oh yes, by all means, let's have more hate CrawlingChaos Jan 2015 #21

If you have a different idea of what constitutes stupidity, by all means explain it. Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2015 #51

Stupidity is buying into the demonization of Muslims CrawlingChaos Jan 2015 #58

Your talking points are like a square tire, in reference to "the big picture." demosincebirth Jan 2015 #61

Could you possibly be more cryptic? CrawlingChaos Jan 2015 #64

So we disagree with those things treestar Jan 2015 #146

Cultures can and should be criticized. F4lconF16 Jan 2015 #159

We can, but we shouldn't. Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2015 #173

Alrighty then. rug Jan 2015 #45

And the purpose of ... NanceGreggs Jan 2015 #48

People who do the right thing because they're afraid of burning in hell are stupid. QuestionableC Jan 2015 #50

You're assuming that people ... NanceGreggs Jan 2015 #62

If people are irrational in one area phil89 Jan 2015 #77

You are making the assumption ... NanceGreggs Jan 2015 #79

Did it occur to you that sometimes people who want to help others are attracted to sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #130

I think you misunderstood what the poster was saying. F4lconF16 Jan 2015 #160

Well, here's the thing. I get very nervous when I see people making statements about sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #164

Conversely, many liberal ideas are opposed by many religions* Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2015 #52

I understand your point. NanceGreggs Jan 2015 #67

Thank you, Nance. brer cat Jan 2015 #69

"No True Scotsman" fallacy. F4lconF16 Jan 2015 #153

Ironically ... NanceGreggs Jan 2015 #188

Why does there need to be a purpose? Codeine Jan 2015 #72

Yes! So true!! bravenak Jan 2015 #76

My query was about the purpose ... NanceGreggs Jan 2015 #88

Except not just religion was denigrated...whole races and classes of human beings with very little kelliekat44 Jan 2015 #96

You have every right to be offended/Insulted, but you do NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to be PREVENTED bobalew Jan 2015 #5

Not asking the government to censor the deliberate denigration of others by some person/organization kelly1mm Jan 2015 #6

You don't have to tolerate it. Lobo27 Jan 2015 #7

Witty barbs at a hundred paces. CJCRANE Jan 2015 #8

If only! SomethingFishy Jan 2015 #16

How appropriate, you fight ... dawg Jan 2015 #124

I don't know if that will work anymore. Fox and RW radio have brainwashed people into believing that Dark n Stormy Knight Jan 2015 #109

Satire can be dangerous. Freedom of speech comes with risks. Rex Jan 2015 #9

It does come with risks. Lobo27 Jan 2015 #10

And each religion has fundamentalists, and the vast majority of christians might not start randys1 Jan 2015 #165

Yes, in this country. Am I'm glad. Inkfreak Jan 2015 #11

"the deliberate denigration of others because you do not agree with their expression of faith." oberliner Jan 2015 #12

Yes ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #84

Post removed Post removed Jan 2015 #94

No, neither my feeling {sic}, nor my butt was hurt ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #105

I do Boudica the Lyoness Jan 2015 #155

Good for you ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #156

Yes I do. Boudica the Lyoness Jan 2015 #161

Yeah ... right. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #162

Ignoring the poster you were responding to F4lconF16 Jan 2015 #166

Yes, thank you. Boudica the Lyoness Jan 2015 #170

I'm glad you've done so well. F4lconF16 Jan 2015 #171

Well put ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #176

Seems like a slippery slope to me oberliner Jan 2015 #102

Yes, self-censorshipin the name of civility and tolerance ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #108

Would that include not making fun of Republicans? oberliner Jan 2015 #110

I'm re-thinking that as well ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #111

Fair enough oberliner Jan 2015 #114

Whu in the world should religion be different?? HERVEPA Jan 2015 #152

Why should religion be different? F4lconF16 Jan 2015 #167

So would you then agree that all religions should not be able to denigrate gay people? Bluenorthwest Jan 2015 #13

I completely agree that no religion should denigrate anyone ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #14

You know... TexasMommaWithAHat Jan 2015 #44

Some religions are based on denigrating others... Humanist_Activist Jan 2015 #101

I have no issue with satire aimed at "expressions of faith". Spider Jerusalem Jan 2015 #15

I'm working through this; but, ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #17

I feel like I should vomit Kurska Jan 2015 #19

So ... before, or immediately after, you vomit ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #22

People gunned down by machine guns for publishing cartoons should not "own the result" Kurska Jan 2015 #24

If you deliberately say something you know will offend me ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #31

Being offensive is not on the same level of murder Kurska Jan 2015 #34

So it does turn on the violence. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #39

When you respond to speech with violence, you lose any moral authority you had n/t Kurska Jan 2015 #83

Agreed. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #86

Let's turn this around... Luminous Animal Jan 2015 #36

So, it does turns on the violence. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #38

Of course. There are many ways to protest when you've felt denigrated other Luminous Animal Jan 2015 #40

More precisely, it turns on the infringement of rights. Jim Lane Jan 2015 #90

"It's sensible to criticize a robbery victim for not locking his door" F4lconF16 Jan 2015 #169

There's something in between victim-blaming and useful advice. Jim Lane Jan 2015 #182

The big difference between your examples F4lconF16 Jan 2015 #183

Nobody is saying that it was justified. Nobody on this board has said that it's justified. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #132

If gay people were trying to murder the Phelpses, or black people were bombing Klan offices... Spider Jerusalem Jan 2015 #42

Seems to me you're 840high Jan 2015 #87

Absolutely agree with you OnePercentDem Jan 2015 #104

Much of what is said on DU really pisses off conservatives Fumesucker Jan 2015 #20

Good point, but ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #26

People do it all the time on DU Fumesucker Jan 2015 #30

And ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #37

Evidently not Fumesucker Jan 2015 #41

Sounds like blaming the victim. Spider Jerusalem Jan 2015 #23

Just come out and say it, for crying out loud. nt Dreamer Tatum Jan 2015 #27

So, you consider what the KKK thinks before speaking out, right? jeff47 Jan 2015 #47

I don't mock the klan. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #85

Arguing for equality is mocking the Klan. (nt) jeff47 Jan 2015 #125

No ... It's not ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #126

They don't see it that way... haikugal Jan 2015 #149

You are correct 1SBM, with rights come responsibilities. We must begin to accept this as a whole Dont call me Shirley Jan 2015 #54

"Speak and act in the ways of non-violence" like Charlie Hebdo did, you mean? Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2015 #55

Yes, non-violence, like Dr King and Ghandi. Dont call me Shirley Jan 2015 #59

I disagree with you Marrah_G Jan 2015 #66

But the hateful and intolerant are usually pretty unreasonable about what offends them cemaphonic Jan 2015 #68

I have expressed views that agree with yours and been the target of insult myself. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #92

And, this ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #137

If you don't like free speech, ignore it or battle it with more free speech. Brickbat Jan 2015 #18

K&R CrawlingChaos Jan 2015 #25

Yes, you certainly appear to. Dreamer Tatum Jan 2015 #28

Doesn't condone killing Kurska Jan 2015 #29

Yes, "own the results" pretty much sews it up. nt Dreamer Tatum Jan 2015 #32

Religion is a philosophy and adhering to that philosophy is not innate. Luminous Animal Jan 2015 #33

"does your free speech right mean I have to tolerate your intolerance?" cherokeeprogressive Jan 2015 #35

You "don't know how you come down" on the murders in Paris? Really? Nye Bevan Jan 2015 #43

Such righteous indignation whatchamacallit Jan 2015 #57

Your ignoring what I actually said ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #82

Yes, we got it, you aren't a fan of free speech, why don't you practice what you preach and.. Humanist_Activist Jan 2015 #91

I mostly stand with staunch defenders of free speech, but I understand your concern whatchamacallit Jan 2015 #46

No, you haven't misrepresented what I am saying ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #81

You teach your daughter well, 1Strong. sheshe2 Jan 2015 #184

Those saying I advocate/condone ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #185

But you do implicitly blame the victims, and that's nearly as bad. N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2015 #49

Yes, my free speech might piss you off. Yours might piss me off. riqster Jan 2015 #53

I'm in agreement but in France JustAnotherGen Jan 2015 #60

i haven't looked into it much but the limits seem to be about actual historical events and actual JI7 Jan 2015 #89

Go a step further JustAnotherGen Jan 2015 #95

Point, but the magazine knew the laws well and how to be in compliance. riqster Jan 2015 #112

In total agreement on that too JustAnotherGen Jan 2015 #116

A question to throw in the mix JustAnotherGen Jan 2015 #56

And, Oscars ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #134

Does it hinge on the level of reaction from the offended? ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jan 2015 #63

depends on what you mean by tolerate, you have a right to criticize with words, protest, and other JI7 Jan 2015 #65

Yes, free speech means precisely and exactly that. Codeine Jan 2015 #70

And I do not accept that the right to free speech Codeine Jan 2015 #71

Let's assume Charlie was awful DonCoquixote Jan 2015 #73

This is not even a close call to me. Silent3 Jan 2015 #74

You defend religious privilege... MellowDem Jan 2015 #75

If your life or your family was being threatened would you be willing to kill an attacker ... spin Jan 2015 #78

As I see it swilton Jan 2015 #80

Anti-Semitism is an entirely different matter one would for example never see a caricature of Moses Behind the Aegis Jan 2015 #97

+10000 JustAnotherGen Jan 2015 #131

And right there in your OP, you imply an equivalence between "offensive" speech, and murder. Warren DeMontague Jan 2015 #93

Some philosophies are more acceptable than others. Behind the Aegis Jan 2015 #98

Free speech means you have to accept that things you don't like will be said Lee-Lee Jan 2015 #99

"does your free speech right mean I have to tolerate your intolerance?" Behind the Aegis Jan 2015 #100

Let me help you out OnePercentDem Jan 2015 #103

The fact that you think giving offense weighs seriously against mass murder True Blue Door Jan 2015 #106

The Muslim world is going to take our insults and LIKE THEM, goddamnit! randome Jan 2015 #107

I agree. HappyMe Jan 2015 #115

finally.... politicman Jan 2015 #117

Charlie Hebdo itself should be ridiculed for its tastelessness. randome Jan 2015 #119

So do you think Martin Scorsese should be ridiculed for his tastelessness? Paris, Oct 1988, Saint Bluenorthwest Jan 2015 #120

The gunmen's motives were not what they claimed. They just found an excuse to kill. randome Jan 2015 #147

The people who firebombed the Last Temptation thought it was inflammatory and tasteless. Bluenorthwest Jan 2015 #168

Of course everyone has their own definition of what is tasteless. randome Jan 2015 #174

I think you probably do condone the killing deep down somewhere. LexVegas Jan 2015 #113

I thank you for NOT speculating ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #121

I'm not seeing that in 1Strong's post . . . JustAnotherGen Jan 2015 #135

Well... haikugal Jan 2015 #157

I'm a UU - ten years now JustAnotherGen Jan 2015 #158

"does your free speech right mean I have to tolerate your intolerance?" NCTraveler Jan 2015 #118

Fair enough. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #122

I hear you, but you cannot kill people just because you are offended. bemildred Jan 2015 #123

Nobody is saying that. Nobody on this board has said that it's justified. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #127

Thanks for clearing that up. nt bemildred Jan 2015 #128

+100 JustAnotherGen Jan 2015 #136

What do you think I meant when I wrote ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #138

I think you meant that you don't condone the killing. bemildred Jan 2015 #143

What do you mean by "tolerate"? RedCappedBandit Jan 2015 #129

So you are "okay" with ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #140

If by "okay with" RedCappedBandit Jan 2015 #141

that cover was over the line in ugly, imo. the issue of freedom of speech, allows me, and society seabeyond Jan 2015 #133

I didn't see that ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #142

the long time duer was not you. this is the jury i sat on. seabeyond Jan 2015 #144

Amen to it all JustAnotherGen Jan 2015 #148

It means you don't have a right to kill someone because he has disrespected your or your idol./NT DemocratSinceBirth Jan 2015 #139

I'd sympathize with them had they opposed it by more speech. treestar Jan 2015 #145

Yes, picketing the outside of the place is the answer, not killing. When I worked near ARAMCO, which freshwest Jan 2015 #187

In a Word RobinA Jan 2015 #150

it's coming to a point of survival samsingh Jan 2015 #151

Shit, that's practically the very definition of membership in the Middle East. randome Jan 2015 #154

"Maybe someday they'll grow up"? F4lconF16 Jan 2015 #186

My free speech right and your beliefs are the intersection we are talking about, and it is randys1 Jan 2015 #163

Well put ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #175

It is an issue that seems to hit real close to home for many people, and I have one other randys1 Jan 2015 #177

True ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #178

Do you know who Mark Thompson is, Sirius Radio? randys1 Jan 2015 #179

Don't have Sirius. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #180

People can and should have the right to engage in most any speech they want BainsBane Jan 2015 #172

Are you conflating deliberate denigration with broadcasting controversial ideas? LiberalAndProud Jan 2015 #181