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sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)

132. Would some of those cartoons have been published here without outrage?

Fri Jan 9, 2015, 12:08 PM

Jan 2015

I'm not talking about French culture, French culture is entirely different to ours. I'm talking about this country's culture.

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We should not kill people for speech. But I am not Charlie Hebdo. [View all] Ms. Toad Jan 2015 OP

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jan 2015 #1

What was the stated reason for the alert? cyberswede Jan 2015 #5

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jan 2015 #7

Well, that was illuminating. Not. cyberswede Jan 2015 #13

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jan 2015 #15

I hope you realize my smiley was directed at the alert & empty juror comments. cyberswede Jan 2015 #19

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jan 2015 #39

I get the gist of your experiment post, KMOD Jan 2015 #33

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jan 2015 #40

hypocrisy on freedom of speech KMOD Jan 2015 #49

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jan 2015 #59

it's a magazine that only has 30,000 subscribers, so who do you think is funding it? NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #77

Oh sure, there's no doubt that if big money KMOD Jan 2015 #79

That's not the only reason big money funds media. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #81

I absolutely agree with you. KMOD Jan 2015 #85

If the message is foolish, the people won't buy it? are you sure? i think there are NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #87

Well, obviously it sells with some. KMOD Jan 2015 #88

are christian fundamentalists a majority in the US? NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #89

No. KMOD Jan 2015 #97

my point exactly NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #103

I'm sorry, I'm not exactly following your point. KMOD Jan 2015 #142

The actual title of the piece is 'Killing in Egypt". "The Koran is shit" is referring to the murder of Luminous Animal Jan 2015 #24

No, I didn't buy into any outrage... cyberswede Jan 2015 #35

Sorry! Misread it! Thanks, so much, for the clarification. Luminous Animal Jan 2015 #36

yes, and it is neither funny nor enlightening in any way reorg Jan 2015 #61

It is provocative and even mean-spirited, and I think its creators would be the first to agree. nomorenomore08 Jan 2015 #76

+1 Go Vols Jan 2015 #138

I condemn these cold blooded murders and support their right to publish the cartoons. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #2

Then you are misinformed Albertoo Jan 2015 #3

I take serious issue with that as well. PeaceNikki Jan 2015 #4

Your point is spot on, but sadly you won't get a response from the OP cleanhippie Jan 2015 #22

And they were racist. The ones aimed at Blacks eg, would never have been published sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #128

I already proved to you no Charlie Hebdo cartoon was ever racist Albertoo Jan 2015 #129

Would some of those cartoons have been published here without outrage? sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #132

What does it matter if there was outrage? Glengoolie Jan 2015 #154

Do you think then that it was wrong to fire Imus for his remarks? Should we allow any kind of speech sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #155

Depends on who you mean when you say "we" SickOfTheOnePct Jan 2015 #166

Exactly... Glengoolie Jan 2015 #192

I stand with freedom of speech against the armed psychopaths who would rip it from us. Kurska Jan 2015 #6

Je Suis Charlie. 840high Jan 2015 #51

"I am against murderous religious bigots, BUT ...." Warren Stupidity Jan 2015 #8

My opposition to those who attacked Charlie Hebbdo is unqualified. Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #9

No you qualified it. Warren Stupidity Jan 2015 #10

I'm not qualifying my response to a brutal massacre Kurska Jan 2015 #12

Some of the cartoons I've seen were really nasty and disgusting... Violet_Crumble Jan 2015 #98

It is a response to all of the posts which insist Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #14

Relating the cartoonist/writers to the KKK? RobertEarl Jan 2015 #25

It is an analogy to make a point. Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #38

Please post any racist quote by Charlie Hebdo. riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #44

Not all offensive behavior is satire. Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #53

So you can't. riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #57

Has anyone said that YOU have to identify with Charlie Hebdo? Or have they said THEY do? Warren DeMontague Jan 2015 #67

There's a few folk saying if you don't then yr justifying the murders... Violet_Crumble Jan 2015 #102

Totally. Telling someone to fuck right the hell off is a totally reasonable, free-speech response. Warren DeMontague Jan 2015 #104

I used to love the Onion... Violet_Crumble Jan 2015 #106

Oh, wow. Warren DeMontague Jan 2015 #109

Warren, there was a jury hide earlier of a post Denzil_DC Jan 2015 #143

here, hidden and now flagged for review. And thank you for your post. you are not alone. uppityperson Jan 2015 #144

Woah. Denzil_DC Jan 2015 #145

The fact that a jury hid it, tells you something right there. Warren DeMontague Jan 2015 #149

What does it tell me? Denzil_DC Jan 2015 #152

It "tells you" that you are incorrect in characterizing that particular sentiment as a "whole Warren DeMontague Jan 2015 #163

"It 'tells you' that you are incorrect in characterizing that particular sentiment as a 'whole Denzil_DC Jan 2015 #164

"I've seen you add considerably to that undercurrent" --Oh, you have, have you? Warren DeMontague Jan 2015 #169

which is quite clear, but expect continued wilfull misunderstanding. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #82

"You've just equated satire to murder." cyberswede Jan 2015 #16

Thank you! hrmjustin Jan 2015 #29

Well done, cs Cha Jan 2015 #74

Good reply, cyberswede. nt brer cat Jan 2015 #75

it's a pretty basic concept, but seems quite beyond the understanding of some posters. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #84

Exactly. Blue_In_AK Jan 2015 #167

So one has to change their views about the material? kcr Jan 2015 #157

The material is irrelevant. Warren Stupidity Jan 2015 #158

Wow moment here kcr Jan 2015 #159

I agree with you that we can condemn these murders but not associate ourselves with these cartoons hrmjustin Jan 2015 #11

...but why would we want to? brooklynite Jan 2015 #20

They may dish it out equally but I don't have to care for it. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #21

Indeed you don't... brooklynite Jan 2015 #30

I admire their courage and they did nothing to deserve death or physical harm. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #32

Dishing it out equally is not necessarily equal treatment starroute Jan 2015 #41

I disagree that the Muslim faith is "vulnerable" brooklynite Jan 2015 #46

Your nuance is mostly wasted here, I'm afraid. But please consider me an admirer. - nt KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #56

Thank you. n/t Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #62

+100. and there's also the issue, in these times, of hidden players and agendas. since NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #86

Please point out, exactly, what was offensive. cleanhippie Jan 2015 #23

... cwydro Jan 2015 #37

Tiny font: killing is bad mkay BUT IF PEOPLE WOLD JUST ACQUIESCE TO THE DEMANDS OF FUNDAMENTALISTS Warren DeMontague Jan 2015 #65

Too bad there is no longer an Unrecc, because I would Unrecc your OP. MicaelS Jan 2015 #17

You're entitled to your opinion, but you might ask yourself, Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #31

+100... (political messaging, jim...) NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #90

If only the KKK had been guilty of nothing more than simple offensive satire. RedCappedBandit Jan 2015 #114

So substitute the Westboro Baptist Church Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #119

That's a fair enough point and I respect that perspective. RedCappedBandit Jan 2015 #124

Hint: they're equal opportunity offenders... brooklynite Jan 2015 #18

I think that's exactly what she's saying. cleanhippie Jan 2015 #27

Not really CrawlingChaos Jan 2015 #28

Why would it matter, don't you think this is a false flag Kurska Jan 2015 #34

Oh nice try CrawlingChaos Jan 2015 #42

So do you believe it was a false flag? Do you consider that possibility realistic? n/t Kurska Jan 2015 #43

Did you read my posted links? Particularly the first one? CrawlingChaos Jan 2015 #47

"All I will confidently say is that I believe there is more to the story that is not being widely Kurska Jan 2015 #48

So no substantive rebuttal then CrawlingChaos Jan 2015 #52

No real answer Kurska Jan 2015 #60

i think there's more to the story too. there always is. you sure are confident that NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #91

Of course there is more, what we're referencing is a thread that presented a narrative that way Kurska Jan 2015 #95

if i were doing a bombing, i wouldn't bring my ID. and if I did bring my ID, I wouldn't NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #96

911 truther and massacre truther in the same post Kurska Jan 2015 #112

remarkably stupid terrorists and thanks for the personal attack; just what i'd expect NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #134

"remarkably stupid terrorists" EX500rider Jan 2015 #146

I'm expecting average intelligence. It's odd so many terrorists bring their passports and NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #147

You expect avg intelligence from someone willing to blow themselves up and.. EX500rider Jan 2015 #148

I think people who are taken in by propaganda are kind of stupid too. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #151

From reports, it sounded like they sought martyrdom. Denzil_DC Jan 2015 #156

are you a regular reader of Charlie Hebdo? reorg Jan 2015 #54

No. I'm saying that I do not unite with or support Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #63

And talk of "occasion" and "stoking the embers"- call it what it is. Blaming the victim. Warren DeMontague Jan 2015 #66

I haven't seen any Charlie Hebdo cartoons that are racist or hate speech. Vattel Jan 2015 #26

You must not have looked at very many. They depicted a black French official as a monkey, ffs. LeftyMom Jan 2015 #55

Thank you. n/t Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #58

Sounds like they were trying to pass off some ugly, racist hate speech as "satire". n/t whathehell Jan 2015 #70

that so many democrats here declare themselves to be one with 'charlie' makes one wonder. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #92

You are right. I hadn't looked at very many. And the ones you mention are obviously racist. Vattel Jan 2015 #115

How about this one? CrawlingChaos Jan 2015 #93

"don't touch our welfare check!" -- because 'satire' directed against minorities and the poor NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #94

That's not where the satire is directed melman Jan 2015 #116

why don't you enlighten me; though i already know what you're going to say NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #133

I see you haven't received an answer yet. Denzil_DC Jan 2015 #181

Thanks for posting this! swilton Jan 2015 #45

all these letters,words, & sentences are violating my religious beliefs. please stop immediately n msongs Jan 2015 #50

bullying of oppressed groups- like people who get shot for publishing a cartoon? Warren DeMontague Jan 2015 #64

Like I basically said up above, there's no sensible or valid equivalency between the two. nomorenomore08 Jan 2015 #78

Indeed. If people want to talk about what sorts of things said, are or or aren't offensive Warren DeMontague Jan 2015 #83

I do too. It trivializes a horrific, and indeed terroristic, act. n/t nomorenomore08 Jan 2015 #100

I agree with that. I have seen some of the cartoons, some aimed at Blacks, others at Muslims, sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #68

Agreed. Criticizing the cartoons is NOT condoning the murders. n/t whathehell Jan 2015 #72

You are correct. The cartoon on the girls kidnapped by Boko Haram was disgusting. kelliekat44 Jan 2015 #111

See post 181 GoneOffShore Jan 2015 #195

I agree, and feel the same way. n/t whathehell Jan 2015 #69

Sabrina, leftymum, whatthehell, Charlie Hebdo has never been accused of racism Albertoo Jan 2015 #71

Really? Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #161

Really Albertoo Jan 2015 #197

You didn't say they weren't racist - you said they had never been accused of racism. Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #198

Post removed Post removed Jan 2015 #199

I agree, Ms. Toad brer cat Jan 2015 #73

Thank you. Fawke Em Jan 2015 #80

knr Douglas Carpenter Jan 2015 #99

Je suis Charlie. nt longship Jan 2015 #101

I condemn rape, but she shouldn't have worn a short skirt. Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2015 #105

Not analagous to what I said. Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #113

Perfect analogy to this thread. nt Albertoo Jan 2015 #117

I am - concede to this demand, and when you say that it's wrong to stone homosexuals Yo_Mama Jan 2015 #107

They have every right to publish their cartoons, 6000eliot Jan 2015 #108

Correct - Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #122

I was agreeing with your post. 6000eliot Jan 2015 #123

"valorising victims" = oxymoron joshcryer Jan 2015 #110

They were victims because individuals intent on promoting their own twisted version of Islam Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #118

Fair enough. joshcryer Jan 2015 #121

How about if the South Park creators were murdered? oberliner Jan 2015 #126

I don't know enough about the content of South Park Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #130

I don't agree with comparing Westboro Baptist Church to Charlie Hedbo oberliner Jan 2015 #131

If you can't say the same about the Westboro Baptist Church Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #135

Westboro Baptist Church isn't a group of satirical cartoonists oberliner Jan 2015 #137

A group of individuals were attacked and killed for their speech. Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #139

"They happened to be cartoonists" oberliner Jan 2015 #141

At least we know where you stand. Taitertots Jan 2015 #120

Please point out where I opposed freedom of speech. Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #140

You can finesse it all you want, but you're still blaming the victims. Paladin Jan 2015 #125

Please point out where I said Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #136

Disliking or disagreeing with media does not mean it is racist. alarimer Jan 2015 #127

If you're not Charlie Hebdo Hutzpa Jan 2015 #150

Rather ironic if the whole point of the "I am Charlie Hebdo" meme Blue_In_AK Jan 2015 #168

You probably fail at comprehension Hutzpa Jan 2015 #171

My comprehension is fine, thank you. Blue_In_AK Jan 2015 #172

My reasoning behind that statement is simple Hutzpa Jan 2015 #174

Unless I'm reading you wrong, Blue_In_AK Jan 2015 #176

Not racist and not 'islamaphoic' but they certainly are accurate... Glengoolie Jan 2015 #153

K&R very well said azurnoir Jan 2015 #160

Thanks. Not my words, Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #162

I am not them, either. Blue_In_AK Jan 2015 #165

Which are the ones you condone and which are the ones you don't? oberliner Jan 2015 #173

I probably should have bookmarked the ones I saw yesterday Blue_In_AK Jan 2015 #175

Thanks for sharing that oberliner Jan 2015 #177

Thank you. Blue_In_AK Jan 2015 #178

My view on the subject oberliner Jan 2015 #179

I see both sides to this issue, as do you. Blue_In_AK Jan 2015 #180

I don't think you're humor impaired, I just think you aren't French riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #194

Thank you, Rider. Blue_In_AK Jan 2015 #196

I agree with this OP. NaturalHigh Jan 2015 #170

The point isn't what offends, or what disgusts, or what you just don't cotton to. NOT THE POINT. WinkyDink Jan 2015 #187

I get that. Chill. NaturalHigh Jan 2015 #193

See my avatar. GoneOffShore Jan 2015 #182

Opinions are neither right nor wrong. Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #183

Not quite true. Some people are of the opinion that the world is flat. WinkyDink Jan 2015 #189

Fact is capable of objective verification. Opinion is not. Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #190

Exactly. And doesn't quite "get" what freedom of speech and of the press means. WinkyDink Jan 2015 #188

But. Iggo Jan 2015 #184

"But" is a response to the meme, Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #185

Post removed Post removed Jan 2015 #200

"you�re not standing up for freedom of speech. You�re valorising hate speech and bullying of WinkyDink Jan 2015 #186

There are no absolutes. There never have been. randome Jan 2015 #191