For all the cheerleaders who thought overthrowing Qaddafi was such a great idea

[jeff47]

92. Yes, Libya would be a fantastic place...as long as you liked the dictator.

If you didn't like the dictator, it wasn't so nice. But stability is all that's important, right?

Look, virtually all of the countries in the region are artificial creations made by Europeans decades ago. The borders were drawn to satisfy European politics at the time with zero regard to what the local people felt.

Libya should probably be two countries. But Europeans preferred one. So they made one. But the only way to hold the country together was a brutal dictatorship. Libya is currently in the process of figuring out if it should really be two countries, or if they have enough in common to remain a single country. It's not pretty, but it's the only way you will end up with true stability.

Syria should not exist. But the French wanted a country there, because the British were getting other countries in the region. So Syria exists. Left to their own devices, chunks of Syria, Iraq and Turkey would form Kurdistan. Other chunks of Syria, Iraq, Lebanon and Jordan would form another nation. Chunks of Iraq would be part of Iran. And chunks of Turkey, Syria and Lebanon would form yet another state. But the French and British did not let the locals draw the borders when the Ottoman Empire lost WWI.

The only alternative to the locals drawing the borders is death and brutality. Either through severe oppression, or through civil war. The latter at least has an end to the pain and dying, and produces stable countries with culturally-defined borders. Hopefully through separation of disparate groups, instead of "the ISIS solution" of genocide.

Propping up Gaddafi would just delay the civil war. Like Russia propping up Assad delayed Syria's civil war. But propping up the dictator doesn't work forever. Eventually, that civil war will happen and the borders will be made to culturally fit.

We should use our influence to try and steer these countries towards the least-brutal way of getting those culturally-drawn borders. Which means beating up on groups like ISIS because of their genocidal goals, while letting the Libyans work out where Libya's borders should be.