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BainsBane

(53,137 posts)

172. People can and should have the right to engage in most any speech they want

Reply to 1StrongBlackMan (Original post)

Fri Jan 9, 2015, 05:04 PM

Jan 2015

Last edited Fri Jan 9, 2015, 05:40 PM - Edit history (1)

(save threats of violence, etc) but that doesn't mean they are immune from criticism for that speech. Their right to free speech doesn't encumber my or your right to criticize that speech or to form conclusions about their character.

And no, speech and murder are not in any way comparable. What i have noticed, however, is some invoke free speech in an effort to silence criticism, which is itself a form of speech.

I think the French situation is complicated because we don't understand the cultural context, neither of the terrorists or of French journalists. I don't feel I can judge that cover as an outsider. But if I did, any judgement I would have would be expressed through my own free speech, certainly not violence.

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I do not condone killing ... [View all] 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 OP

The answer is more free speech and protest. CJCRANE Jan 2015 #1

Yes. Jackpine Radical Jan 2015 #3

The way to fight offensive speech is with more speech. eom MohRokTah Jan 2015 #2

Post removed Post removed Jan 2015 #4

Oh yes, by all means, let's have more hate CrawlingChaos Jan 2015 #21

If you have a different idea of what constitutes stupidity, by all means explain it. Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2015 #51

Stupidity is buying into the demonization of Muslims CrawlingChaos Jan 2015 #58

Your talking points are like a square tire, in reference to "the big picture." demosincebirth Jan 2015 #61

Could you possibly be more cryptic? CrawlingChaos Jan 2015 #64

So we disagree with those things treestar Jan 2015 #146

Cultures can and should be criticized. F4lconF16 Jan 2015 #159

We can, but we shouldn't. Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2015 #173

Alrighty then. rug Jan 2015 #45

And the purpose of ... NanceGreggs Jan 2015 #48

People who do the right thing because they're afraid of burning in hell are stupid. QuestionableC Jan 2015 #50

You're assuming that people ... NanceGreggs Jan 2015 #62

If people are irrational in one area phil89 Jan 2015 #77

You are making the assumption ... NanceGreggs Jan 2015 #79

Did it occur to you that sometimes people who want to help others are attracted to sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #130

I think you misunderstood what the poster was saying. F4lconF16 Jan 2015 #160

Well, here's the thing. I get very nervous when I see people making statements about sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #164

Conversely, many liberal ideas are opposed by many religions* Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2015 #52

I understand your point. NanceGreggs Jan 2015 #67

Thank you, Nance. brer cat Jan 2015 #69

"No True Scotsman" fallacy. F4lconF16 Jan 2015 #153

Ironically ... NanceGreggs Jan 2015 #188

Why does there need to be a purpose? Codeine Jan 2015 #72

Yes! So true!! bravenak Jan 2015 #76

My query was about the purpose ... NanceGreggs Jan 2015 #88

Except not just religion was denigrated...whole races and classes of human beings with very little kelliekat44 Jan 2015 #96

You have every right to be offended/Insulted, but you do NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to be PREVENTED bobalew Jan 2015 #5

Not asking the government to censor the deliberate denigration of others by some person/organization kelly1mm Jan 2015 #6

You don't have to tolerate it. Lobo27 Jan 2015 #7

Witty barbs at a hundred paces. CJCRANE Jan 2015 #8

If only! SomethingFishy Jan 2015 #16

How appropriate, you fight ... dawg Jan 2015 #124

I don't know if that will work anymore. Fox and RW radio have brainwashed people into believing that Dark n Stormy Knight Jan 2015 #109

Satire can be dangerous. Freedom of speech comes with risks. Rex Jan 2015 #9

It does come with risks. Lobo27 Jan 2015 #10

And each religion has fundamentalists, and the vast majority of christians might not start randys1 Jan 2015 #165

Yes, in this country. Am I'm glad. Inkfreak Jan 2015 #11

"the deliberate denigration of others because you do not agree with their expression of faith." oberliner Jan 2015 #12

Yes ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #84

Post removed Post removed Jan 2015 #94

No, neither my feeling {sic}, nor my butt was hurt ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #105

I do Boudica the Lyoness Jan 2015 #155

Good for you ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #156

Yes I do. Boudica the Lyoness Jan 2015 #161

Yeah ... right. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #162

Ignoring the poster you were responding to F4lconF16 Jan 2015 #166

Yes, thank you. Boudica the Lyoness Jan 2015 #170

I'm glad you've done so well. F4lconF16 Jan 2015 #171

Well put ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #176

Seems like a slippery slope to me oberliner Jan 2015 #102

Yes, self-censorshipin the name of civility and tolerance ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #108

Would that include not making fun of Republicans? oberliner Jan 2015 #110

I'm re-thinking that as well ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #111

Fair enough oberliner Jan 2015 #114

Whu in the world should religion be different?? HERVEPA Jan 2015 #152

Why should religion be different? F4lconF16 Jan 2015 #167

So would you then agree that all religions should not be able to denigrate gay people? Bluenorthwest Jan 2015 #13

I completely agree that no religion should denigrate anyone ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #14

You know... TexasMommaWithAHat Jan 2015 #44

Some religions are based on denigrating others... Humanist_Activist Jan 2015 #101

I have no issue with satire aimed at "expressions of faith". Spider Jerusalem Jan 2015 #15

I'm working through this; but, ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #17

I feel like I should vomit Kurska Jan 2015 #19

So ... before, or immediately after, you vomit ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #22

People gunned down by machine guns for publishing cartoons should not "own the result" Kurska Jan 2015 #24

If you deliberately say something you know will offend me ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #31

Being offensive is not on the same level of murder Kurska Jan 2015 #34

So it does turn on the violence. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #39

When you respond to speech with violence, you lose any moral authority you had n/t Kurska Jan 2015 #83

Agreed. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #86

Let's turn this around... Luminous Animal Jan 2015 #36

So, it does turns on the violence. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #38

Of course. There are many ways to protest when you've felt denigrated other Luminous Animal Jan 2015 #40

More precisely, it turns on the infringement of rights. Jim Lane Jan 2015 #90

"It's sensible to criticize a robbery victim for not locking his door" F4lconF16 Jan 2015 #169

There's something in between victim-blaming and useful advice. Jim Lane Jan 2015 #182

The big difference between your examples F4lconF16 Jan 2015 #183

Nobody is saying that it was justified. Nobody on this board has said that it's justified. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #132

If gay people were trying to murder the Phelpses, or black people were bombing Klan offices... Spider Jerusalem Jan 2015 #42

Seems to me you're 840high Jan 2015 #87

Absolutely agree with you OnePercentDem Jan 2015 #104

Much of what is said on DU really pisses off conservatives Fumesucker Jan 2015 #20

Good point, but ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #26

People do it all the time on DU Fumesucker Jan 2015 #30

And ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #37

Evidently not Fumesucker Jan 2015 #41

Sounds like blaming the victim. Spider Jerusalem Jan 2015 #23

Just come out and say it, for crying out loud. nt Dreamer Tatum Jan 2015 #27

So, you consider what the KKK thinks before speaking out, right? jeff47 Jan 2015 #47

I don't mock the klan. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #85

Arguing for equality is mocking the Klan. (nt) jeff47 Jan 2015 #125

No ... It's not ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #126

They don't see it that way... haikugal Jan 2015 #149

You are correct 1SBM, with rights come responsibilities. We must begin to accept this as a whole Dont call me Shirley Jan 2015 #54

"Speak and act in the ways of non-violence" like Charlie Hebdo did, you mean? Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2015 #55

Yes, non-violence, like Dr King and Ghandi. Dont call me Shirley Jan 2015 #59

I disagree with you Marrah_G Jan 2015 #66

But the hateful and intolerant are usually pretty unreasonable about what offends them cemaphonic Jan 2015 #68

I have expressed views that agree with yours and been the target of insult myself. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #92

And, this ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #137

If you don't like free speech, ignore it or battle it with more free speech. Brickbat Jan 2015 #18

K&R CrawlingChaos Jan 2015 #25

Yes, you certainly appear to. Dreamer Tatum Jan 2015 #28

Doesn't condone killing Kurska Jan 2015 #29

Yes, "own the results" pretty much sews it up. nt Dreamer Tatum Jan 2015 #32

Religion is a philosophy and adhering to that philosophy is not innate. Luminous Animal Jan 2015 #33

"does your free speech right mean I have to tolerate your intolerance?" cherokeeprogressive Jan 2015 #35

You "don't know how you come down" on the murders in Paris? Really? Nye Bevan Jan 2015 #43

Such righteous indignation whatchamacallit Jan 2015 #57

Your ignoring what I actually said ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #82

Yes, we got it, you aren't a fan of free speech, why don't you practice what you preach and.. Humanist_Activist Jan 2015 #91

I mostly stand with staunch defenders of free speech, but I understand your concern whatchamacallit Jan 2015 #46

No, you haven't misrepresented what I am saying ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #81

You teach your daughter well, 1Strong. sheshe2 Jan 2015 #184

Those saying I advocate/condone ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #185

But you do implicitly blame the victims, and that's nearly as bad. N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2015 #49

Yes, my free speech might piss you off. Yours might piss me off. riqster Jan 2015 #53

I'm in agreement but in France JustAnotherGen Jan 2015 #60

i haven't looked into it much but the limits seem to be about actual historical events and actual JI7 Jan 2015 #89

Go a step further JustAnotherGen Jan 2015 #95

Point, but the magazine knew the laws well and how to be in compliance. riqster Jan 2015 #112

In total agreement on that too JustAnotherGen Jan 2015 #116

A question to throw in the mix JustAnotherGen Jan 2015 #56

And, Oscars ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #134

Does it hinge on the level of reaction from the offended? ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jan 2015 #63

depends on what you mean by tolerate, you have a right to criticize with words, protest, and other JI7 Jan 2015 #65

Yes, free speech means precisely and exactly that. Codeine Jan 2015 #70

And I do not accept that the right to free speech Codeine Jan 2015 #71

Let's assume Charlie was awful DonCoquixote Jan 2015 #73

This is not even a close call to me. Silent3 Jan 2015 #74

You defend religious privilege... MellowDem Jan 2015 #75

If your life or your family was being threatened would you be willing to kill an attacker ... spin Jan 2015 #78

As I see it swilton Jan 2015 #80

Anti-Semitism is an entirely different matter one would for example never see a caricature of Moses Behind the Aegis Jan 2015 #97

+10000 JustAnotherGen Jan 2015 #131

And right there in your OP, you imply an equivalence between "offensive" speech, and murder. Warren DeMontague Jan 2015 #93

Some philosophies are more acceptable than others. Behind the Aegis Jan 2015 #98

Free speech means you have to accept that things you don't like will be said Lee-Lee Jan 2015 #99

"does your free speech right mean I have to tolerate your intolerance?" Behind the Aegis Jan 2015 #100

Let me help you out OnePercentDem Jan 2015 #103

The fact that you think giving offense weighs seriously against mass murder True Blue Door Jan 2015 #106

The Muslim world is going to take our insults and LIKE THEM, goddamnit! randome Jan 2015 #107

I agree. HappyMe Jan 2015 #115

finally.... politicman Jan 2015 #117

Charlie Hebdo itself should be ridiculed for its tastelessness. randome Jan 2015 #119

So do you think Martin Scorsese should be ridiculed for his tastelessness? Paris, Oct 1988, Saint Bluenorthwest Jan 2015 #120

The gunmen's motives were not what they claimed. They just found an excuse to kill. randome Jan 2015 #147

The people who firebombed the Last Temptation thought it was inflammatory and tasteless. Bluenorthwest Jan 2015 #168

Of course everyone has their own definition of what is tasteless. randome Jan 2015 #174

I think you probably do condone the killing deep down somewhere. LexVegas Jan 2015 #113

I thank you for NOT speculating ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #121

I'm not seeing that in 1Strong's post . . . JustAnotherGen Jan 2015 #135

Well... haikugal Jan 2015 #157

I'm a UU - ten years now JustAnotherGen Jan 2015 #158

"does your free speech right mean I have to tolerate your intolerance?" NCTraveler Jan 2015 #118

Fair enough. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #122

I hear you, but you cannot kill people just because you are offended. bemildred Jan 2015 #123

Nobody is saying that. Nobody on this board has said that it's justified. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #127

Thanks for clearing that up. nt bemildred Jan 2015 #128

+100 JustAnotherGen Jan 2015 #136

What do you think I meant when I wrote ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #138

I think you meant that you don't condone the killing. bemildred Jan 2015 #143

What do you mean by "tolerate"? RedCappedBandit Jan 2015 #129

So you are "okay" with ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #140

If by "okay with" RedCappedBandit Jan 2015 #141

that cover was over the line in ugly, imo. the issue of freedom of speech, allows me, and society seabeyond Jan 2015 #133

I didn't see that ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #142

the long time duer was not you. this is the jury i sat on. seabeyond Jan 2015 #144

Amen to it all JustAnotherGen Jan 2015 #148

It means you don't have a right to kill someone because he has disrespected your or your idol./NT DemocratSinceBirth Jan 2015 #139

I'd sympathize with them had they opposed it by more speech. treestar Jan 2015 #145

Yes, picketing the outside of the place is the answer, not killing. When I worked near ARAMCO, which freshwest Jan 2015 #187

In a Word RobinA Jan 2015 #150

it's coming to a point of survival samsingh Jan 2015 #151

Shit, that's practically the very definition of membership in the Middle East. randome Jan 2015 #154

"Maybe someday they'll grow up"? F4lconF16 Jan 2015 #186

My free speech right and your beliefs are the intersection we are talking about, and it is randys1 Jan 2015 #163

Well put ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #175

It is an issue that seems to hit real close to home for many people, and I have one other randys1 Jan 2015 #177

True ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #178

Do you know who Mark Thompson is, Sirius Radio? randys1 Jan 2015 #179

Don't have Sirius. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #180

People can and should have the right to engage in most any speech they want BainsBane Jan 2015 #172

Are you conflating deliberate denigration with broadcasting controversial ideas? LiberalAndProud Jan 2015 #181