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In reply to the discussion: This message was self-deleted by its author [View all]Burf-_-
(205 posts)71. YOU ARE WRONG KMOD !
Last edited Sat Jan 10, 2015, 04:00 PM - Edit history (2)
I'm not afraid to tell you about it either. Stop with the spineless apologetics and wake up to the reality we're actually living and ... dying in.
The religion , which is Islam and it's followers, muslims, is based on a "holy" book called the Quran. Not all Muslims are radicals go's without saying , yet how many more headlines with innocent lives lost have to be made by the radicals in it before it will finally sink into your head that Radicals are farmed from moderates by hardline Imams who advocate and teach the Quran literally.
This here is in their 'holy' book, which unfortunately, wether they liketo admit it to it or not, DOES get taught by most to be taken literally:
* Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered/killed or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"
This verse, among many others, in the quran advocates the killing of unbelievers, is the evidence that These Terrorists attacks ARE indeed about the religion. So any of you who like to pretend otherwise are fooling yourselves on the most self-deluded level possible.
Wake up and smell the jihad apologists ! You need to stop capitulating to the religion as a whole when it's at least as guilty for not Unilaterally putting forth fruitful efforts to curb the behavior of the radicals within it. I will not give any quarter until that happens, but i won't holding my breath obviously.
Bill Maher said it best on Jimmy Kimmel the other night:
The Transcipt:
JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST: A terrible thing happened today in Paris.
BILL MAHER: Yes. Tell them.
KIMMEL: People were killed. I know a lot of people are on vacation so maybe they don't know what's going on.
MAHER: You're the host so you have to tell them the bad news.
KIMMEL: The bad news is cartoonists, journalists, some other people, a police officer were killed in Paris.
MAHER: This was really big sh*t.
KIMMEL: Yes, especially in our business in particular. Especially in your business in particular.
MAHER: Right. And we have to not avoid who did this. Who did this, Jimmy?
KIMMEL: Well, we presume, and I think it's safe --
MAHER: No, no, it's not a presume. No, no. It's Muslim terrorists.
KIMMEL: Yes, Muslim terrorists.
MAHER: This happens way too frequently. It's like Groundhog Day, except if the Groundhog kept getting his head cut off. And let's also give some credit to this newspaper. This was a satirical newspaper in Paris. These guys have the balls of the Eiffel Tower. Their balls were bigger than Gérard Depardieu, because they kept doing it.
KIMMEL:Their were firebombed, their offices were firebombed.
MAHER: Absolutely.
KIMMEL: They continued. The editor said he would rather die than change with his right to free speech.
MAHER: For the crime of being satirists, for the crime of drawing cartoons. This has to stop, and unfortunately, a lot of the liberals, who are my tribe, I am a proud liberal
KIMMEL: He's about to turn on you, so.
MAHER: No, I'm not turning on them, I'm asking them to turn toward the truth as I have been for quite a while. I'm the liberal in this debate. I'm for free speech. To be a liberal, you have to stand up for liberal principles. It's not my fault that the part of the world that is most against liberal principles is the Muslim part of the world.
There have been studies. We have facts on this. Treatment of women. They studied 130 different countries. 17 of the bottom 20 were Muslim countries. In 10 Muslim countries, you can get the death penalty just for being gay. They chop heads off in the square in Mecca. Well, Mecca is their Vatican City. If they were chopping the heads off of Catholic gay people, wouldn't there be a bigger outcry among liberals? I'd ask you.
So to bring it home to us, because we are are satirists, and I'm a satirist who deals with this subject particularly, it's kind of scary, that some people say you cannot make a joke. That's off-limits. We saw this with Kim Jong-un...
We have to stop saying when something like this that happened in Paris today, we have to stop saying, well, we should not insult a great religion. First of all, there are no great religions. They're all stupid and dangerous. And we should insult them and we should be able to insult whatever we want. That is what free speech is like.
There are certain people in the world who want waivers on free speech. Kim Jong-un in North Korea says you cannot make jokes about our country, and there's a lot of Muslim people in the world. I know most Muslim people would not have carried out an attack like this. But here's the important point. Hundreds of millions of them support an attack like this. They applaud an attack like this. What they say is, we don't approve of violence, but you know what, when you make fun of the prophet, all bets are off.
KIMMEL: You really think hundreds of millions of Muslim support this?
MAHER: Absolutely. That is main stream in the Muslim world that when you make fun of the prophet, all bets are off. You get what's coming to you. It's also main stream that if you leave the religion you get what's coming to you, which is death. Not in every Muslim country in majority numbers, but this is a problem in the world that we have to stand up to.
And again, I'm the liberal in this debate. I was brought up in a liberal family. The reason we were liberals is because we were against oppression. I was a little kid when my father told us, we're with Kennedy and against the Southern Governors who stand in the doorways and don't let black kids go to school. And all my life I've been for people who have been the downtrodden, the oppressed, the minorities. I've been for blacks, gays, women, Mexicans, the bully, whoever it is.
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"about the leaders wanting power" applies to a lot of what's going on in the world today.
NewDeal_Dem
Jan 2015
#1
You are missing the point. The terrorists are not Muslim just because they say they are.
Fred Sanders
Jan 2015
#4
Please proceed.......the very definition of a Muslim is saying you are one....dig deeper.
Fred Sanders
Jan 2015
#37
What the article is saying is it's like saying one is a Born Again Christian during a rampage.
Spitfire of ATJ
Jan 2015
#75
We have idiots here claiming to worship the Founders and the Constitution....
Spitfire of ATJ
Jan 2015
#100
If a crazy person kills because he says a Beatles song played backwards told him to do it
GoneFishin
Jan 2015
#160
Right, like when they claimed Marilyn Manson was responsible for Columbine....
Spitfire of ATJ
Jan 2015
#172
Apparently if you just say "I am an alien from a different planet" that makes you obviously an alien from
Fred Sanders
Jan 2015
#12
lol, right. But, tell me this, Fred... how are the actions of these killers so different than those
PeaceNikki
Jan 2015
#16
Well, don't fault me that Islam and Christianity are self-proclaimed religions. I didn't make up
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#19
An alien would be a non-human species. We're talking about belief systems, not biology.
arcane1
Jan 2015
#64
The KKK are Christian because they say they are? The Westboro Church members...Christians?
Fred Sanders
Jan 2015
#140
The No True Scotsman Defense is often employed by those who refuse to embrace just how much
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#6
The No False Scotsman argument is used to insist the actions of one or a few represent the actions of all.
Fred Sanders
Jan 2015
#10
Except...no one's claiming that. What I see is people trying to deny the Muslim faith of the
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#13
Do you think the KKK is Christian? Why would anyone NOT deny their Christian faith?
Fred Sanders
Jan 2015
#15
One poster here vehemently insists you can, only for some religions though, of course. Just
Fred Sanders
Jan 2015
#22
Yes--they are Christians because they say so. Take it up with Martin Luther. nt
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#24
Yes, I am sure MLK would worship with the self proclaiming Christians of the KKK....
Fred Sanders
Jan 2015
#29
And my point is diluted, how? What true Christian would worship with the false asshats of the
Fred Sanders
Jan 2015
#33
"what true muslim" --- you've just demonstrated the 'No True Scotsman' fallacy to a 'T'.
X_Digger
Jan 2015
#48
there is no reason to deny their christian faith. The KKK is explicitly christian.
Warren Stupidity
Jan 2015
#102
To drum the KKK and all of its followers out of Christianity is dishonest, but if they were Muslims,
Fred Sanders
Jan 2015
#105
Of course Christianity also has many sects and divisions, which is why Christian Dominionists,
tblue37
Jan 2015
#124
Those are not sects....The KKK is not a sect, they are a cult...apparently Christians who murder
Fred Sanders
Jan 2015
#142
No--I specifically said they do NOT represent all, just as the terrorists do NOT
tblue37
Jan 2015
#171
Good post, thank you for writing that all out. These attacks also were not just about images in a
uppityperson
Jan 2015
#61
The KKK analogy is perfect. Do Christians all have to stand up and shout that these asshats do not
Fred Sanders
Jan 2015
#3
If a KKK publication were attacked, we'd all be saying "I am the KKK" I gues
jberryhill
Jan 2015
#86
Good analogy. And would any one don the KKK white robes and hood in unity with free speech?
Fred Sanders
Jan 2015
#101
Juan Cole had a very interesting take on these Paris attacks -- that the attackers hoped to
KingCharlemagne
Jan 2015
#25
Use of figs leafs is common, a lot of folks just look at the fig leaf, deeper looks are avoided.
Fred Sanders
Jan 2015
#39
I think yours is a fair statement, but I must also tell you that I don't claim enough expertise to
KingCharlemagne
Jan 2015
#55
That could be. But from what I've understood, at least one of the three claimed
KingCharlemagne
Jan 2015
#67
'the re-establishment of the Caliphate, that ambition strikes me as largely secular'
freshwest
Jan 2015
#45
Ahh, this again. Religion/god/s must be kept in an impenetrable protective bubble at all times,
Arugula Latte
Jan 2015
#36
The criteria for criticism is selective. Some religions have a bigger bubble than others.
Throd
Jan 2015
#43
Religion is steeped in everything the KKK does, lots of terrorist groups, what is your point?
Fred Sanders
Jan 2015
#42
Most of the arguments on DU which claim the attacks were about how offensive the cartoons were
Bluenorthwest
Jan 2015
#68
We can only do what we are able to do. It is time for the mainstream, moderate Muslims to
world wide wally
Jan 2015
#69
Actually he was heres the vid. I thought i had seen it before but i didnt recall.
Burf-_-
Jan 2015
#84
So if it is not about religion, it is also not about 'offending' religion and thus those attacking
Bluenorthwest
Jan 2015
#87
Perhaps if they allowed women to be educated they would not be so vulnerable to "evil persuasion".
PassingFair
Jan 2015
#169
Oh I agree. I just think you could eliminate any objection to your first condition.
Warren Stupidity
Jan 2015
#153
Who cares what religion that attackers think they are, it means absolutely nothing....
politicman
Jan 2015
#109
Muslims sure seem to have a lot of higher structure that determines their religion
Fumesucker
Jan 2015
#112
I live among a lot of stripmall storefront churches, I'm quite familiar with denomination shopping
Fumesucker
Jan 2015
#114
did the 2 paris attackwer not have choice in which flavor of Ilsam they followed.....
politicman
Jan 2015
#116
but since they are all beliefs, how can you judge what is misguided ? it's all based on belief
JI7
Jan 2015
#127
as an Atheist let me tell you that we are respectful, and no true atheist would denigrate others
JI7
Jan 2015
#128
i do condemn those who claim to be atheist when they complain about stupid shit like christmas trees
JI7
Jan 2015
#132
you condemn cause you want to, what would you say if i said you are required to condemn every time
politicman
Jan 2015
#135
well, it is interesting that Atheists(or those who claim to be) are not doing these things as much
JI7
Jan 2015
#136
No true aethiest...watch out, someone will spring the idiotic "no true Scotsman" baloney on you.
Fred Sanders
Jan 2015
#143
It's good to know that someone is in charge of who is a true atheist and who is not
Fumesucker
Jan 2015
#152
Man, there are a LOT of True Scotsmen running around these days, aren't there.
Warren DeMontague
Jan 2015
#126
yes. the intellectual discourse on this topic is embarrassing here at DU. nt
m-lekktor
Jan 2015
#139
Get out the bagpipes, scotch and some more true Scotsman and let's have a logical fail party!
Fred Sanders
Jan 2015
#144
It's about power, not religion. If religion were to some how magically disappear from the
liberal_at_heart
Jan 2015
#131
The road that led from tough Paris estate to radical Yemen training
muriel_volestrangler
Jan 2015
#138
Religion, twisted and distorted as the Westobro Church twists and distorts Chrstianity is the truth.
Fred Sanders
Jan 2015
#145