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Fred Sanders

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155. .....

Reply to Fumesucker (Reply #154)

Sun Jan 11, 2015, 08:31 AM

Jan 2015

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This message was self-deleted by its author [View all] KMOD Jan 2015 OP

"about the leaders wanting power" applies to a lot of what's going on in the world today. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #1

I really wish I could post the entire article here KMOD Jan 2015 #20

So let me get this straight... PCIntern Jan 2015 #2

You are missing the point. The terrorists are not Muslim just because they say they are. Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #4

Actually, by definition, they are oberliner Jan 2015 #7

That is massive deflection. Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #9

It is a basic fact oberliner Jan 2015 #35

Please proceed.......the very definition of a Muslim is saying you are one....dig deeper. Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #37

Have you heard of the six articles of faith? oberliner Jan 2015 #59

dig deeper. AlbertCat Jan 2015 #79

What the article is saying is it's like saying one is a Born Again Christian during a rampage. Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2015 #75

Understood oberliner Jan 2015 #77

We have idiots here claiming to worship the Founders and the Constitution.... Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2015 #100

If a crazy person kills because he says a Beatles song played backwards told him to do it GoneFishin Jan 2015 #160

Right, like when they claimed Marilyn Manson was responsible for Columbine.... Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2015 #172

Yes---they are. Were they excommunicated? Cast out? msanthrope Jan 2015 #8

Apparently if you just say "I am an alien from a different planet" that makes you obviously an alien from Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #12

lol, right. But, tell me this, Fred... how are the actions of these killers so different than those PeaceNikki Jan 2015 #16

I am not into strawmen analysis. Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #17

It's the same fucked up ideology and you know it. PeaceNikki Jan 2015 #21

Well, don't fault me that Islam and Christianity are self-proclaimed religions. I didn't make up msanthrope Jan 2015 #19

Well so is my alien race, self-proclaiming so it must be true. Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #26

Ahem--race is immutable. Religion is not. Apples and oranges. nt msanthrope Jan 2015 #27

actually race is merely a social construct and absolutely NOT immutable. KittyWampus Jan 2015 #121

An alien would be a non-human species. We're talking about belief systems, not biology. arcane1 Jan 2015 #64

yes, yes they are Marrah_G Jan 2015 #117

The KKK are Christian because they say they are? The Westboro Church members...Christians? Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #140

Yes, of course Westboro Baptists are Christians muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #147

That was very informative of your position. Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #148

You admitted in #145 that this is about religion muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #149

The KKK and Westboro are true Christians, as you insist, I get it. Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #150

Yes, the KKK and Westboro are Christians. Marrah_G Jan 2015 #165

Since it's all made up fantasy.... Adrahil Jan 2015 #170

The No True Scotsman Defense is often employed by those who refuse to embrace just how much msanthrope Jan 2015 #6

The No False Scotsman argument is used to insist the actions of one or a few represent the actions of all. Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #10

Except...no one's claiming that. What I see is people trying to deny the Muslim faith of the msanthrope Jan 2015 #13

Do you think the KKK is Christian? Why would anyone NOT deny their Christian faith? Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #15

Yes--because Christanity is self-proclaimed. nt msanthrope Jan 2015 #18

One poster here vehemently insists you can, only for some religions though, of course. Just Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #22

Yes--they are Christians because they say so. Take it up with Martin Luther. nt msanthrope Jan 2015 #24

Yes, I am sure MLK would worship with the self proclaiming Christians of the KKK.... Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #29

You are only off by about 500 years, give or take....nt msanthrope Jan 2015 #31

ms - I believe is writing about this man JustAnotherGen Jan 2015 #32

And my point is diluted, how? What true Christian would worship with the false asshats of the Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #33

A true Christian JustAnotherGen Jan 2015 #44

"what true muslim" --- you've just demonstrated the 'No True Scotsman' fallacy to a 'T'. X_Digger Jan 2015 #48

ML (i.e., the guy who proclaimed the 95 Theses) is NOT MLK. nt tblue37 Jan 2015 #122

there is no reason to deny their christian faith. The KKK is explicitly christian. Warren Stupidity Jan 2015 #102

Whereas Christianity is unified and has no sects or divisions...got it. Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #103

where the fuck did I say that Fred? Warren Stupidity Jan 2015 #104

To drum the KKK and all of its followers out of Christianity is dishonest, but if they were Muslims, Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #105

wtf Fred. You are just making shit up. Warren Stupidity Jan 2015 #106

that was weird, it was the total opposite of what you said JI7 Jan 2015 #120

Not as wierd as some folks not getting obvious sarcasm. Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #141

Of course Christianity also has many sects and divisions, which is why Christian Dominionists, tblue37 Jan 2015 #124

Those are not sects....The KKK is not a sect, they are a cult...apparently Christians who murder Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #142

No--I specifically said they do NOT represent all, just as the terrorists do NOT tblue37 Jan 2015 #171

Bingo valerief Jan 2015 #30

Bongo. Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #34

this. m-lekktor Jan 2015 #57

It's obvious they targeted KMOD Jan 2015 #23

What would you call the retaliation attacks on Muslims in France since the sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #50

Religion really had nothing to do with it. jeff47 Jan 2015 #52

Good post, thank you for writing that all out. These attacks also were not just about images in a uppityperson Jan 2015 #61

wonderful post jeff47 KMOD Jan 2015 #118

Religion is a tool... sendero Jan 2015 #163

exactly. m-lekktor Jan 2015 #53

The KKK analogy is perfect. Do Christians all have to stand up and shout that these asshats do not Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #3

If a KKK publication were attacked, we'd all be saying "I am the KKK" I gues jberryhill Jan 2015 #86

Good analogy. And would any one don the KKK white robes and hood in unity with free speech? Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #101

"these barbaric acts are in no way related to Islam." oberliner Jan 2015 #5

In no logical way......if you abandon logic you are correct. Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #11

The objection to the cartoons has nothing to do with Islam? oberliner Jan 2015 #14

No. They have to do with power. jeff47 Jan 2015 #65

Not sure I can agree with that oberliner Jan 2015 #74

If it was about religion, they'd be directed at Iran. jeff47 Jan 2015 #95

It is a crime punishable by death in Iran to defame the prophet oberliner Jan 2015 #96

The defamation was the bomb hat. Not drawing him at all. jeff47 Jan 2015 #97

Understood oberliner Jan 2015 #98

Al Qaeda is indeed fighting Shia Muslims in Yemen muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #137

We get it whatchamacallit Jan 2015 #158

Encourage secularism and moderation oberliner Jan 2015 #159

Juan Cole had a very interesting take on these Paris attacks -- that the attackers hoped to KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #25

Use of figs leafs is common, a lot of folks just look at the fig leaf, deeper looks are avoided. Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #39

Re-establishing the Caliphate strikes you as non-religious? oberliner Jan 2015 #40

It's sort of like the distinction the German Romantic Schiller KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #46

Interesting oberliner Jan 2015 #47

I think yours is a fair statement, but I must also tell you that I don't claim enough expertise to KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #55

I think Cole is projecting quite a bit oberliner Jan 2015 #60

That could be. But from what I've understood, at least one of the three claimed KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #67

You may be right oberliner Jan 2015 #73

Thank you for that. KMOD Jan 2015 #41

'the re-establishment of the Caliphate, that ambition strikes me as largely secular' freshwest Jan 2015 #45

I agree, the newspaper images were only the excuse. uppityperson Jan 2015 #62

The KKK is not a religion. kiva Jan 2015 #28

ISIS is not a religion. uppityperson Jan 2015 #63

I can see why you believe that, kiva Jan 2015 #81

Ahh, this again. Religion/god/s must be kept in an impenetrable protective bubble at all times, Arugula Latte Jan 2015 #36

The criteria for criticism is selective. Some religions have a bigger bubble than others. Throd Jan 2015 #43

It's about religion for THEM B2G Jan 2015 #38

Religion is steeped in everything the KKK does, lots of terrorist groups, what is your point? Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #42

I get it now. Lobo27 Jan 2015 #49

Is it about religion, or is it about power? KMOD Jan 2015 #56

No they were not recruiting, but weren't they taking revenge for Lobo27 Jan 2015 #58

That was certainly their excuse, at least. KMOD Jan 2015 #93

Christians SHOULD have been required to explain the burning crosses. RandySF Jan 2015 #51

Thank you KMOD, very good article and wouldn't that be nice uppityperson Jan 2015 #54

religion's a dimension to life, intersecting with the others, not a superstate MisterP Jan 2015 #66

Most of the arguments on DU which claim the attacks were about how offensive the cartoons were Bluenorthwest Jan 2015 #68

You bring up some very good points. KMOD Jan 2015 #99

We can only do what we are able to do. It is time for the mainstream, moderate Muslims to world wide wally Jan 2015 #69

Here you go: bobclark86 Jan 2015 #70

YOU ARE WRONG KMOD ! Burf-_- Jan 2015 #71

Bingo! AlbertCat Jan 2015 #88

When is Bill Maher going to have Kareem Abdul-Jabbar on his show? Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2015 #72

has he ever been ? Burf-_- Jan 2015 #76

I agree! KMOD Jan 2015 #80

Actually he was heres the vid. I thought i had seen it before but i didnt recall. Burf-_- Jan 2015 #84

Thank you for that. KMOD Jan 2015 #92

Except they are about religion. AlbertCat Jan 2015 #78

except you are not wrong. Burf-_- Jan 2015 #82

So if it is not about religion, it is also not about 'offending' religion and thus those attacking Bluenorthwest Jan 2015 #87

sorry bout that Burf-_- Jan 2015 #94

But you put your "not" in the wrong place. You might want to edit that. nt tblue37 Jan 2015 #129

They aren't human either AlbertCat Jan 2015 #83

Religion isn't even about religion. Adrahil Jan 2015 #85

Yes. That's why these arguments are so ridiculous. PassingFair Jan 2015 #168

not buying it.... mike_c Jan 2015 #89

Kareem is exactly right. rug Jan 2015 #90

Its about millions of disenfranchised individuals around the world project_bluebook Jan 2015 #91

Perhaps if they allowed women to be educated they would not be so vulnerable to "evil persuasion". PassingFair Jan 2015 #169

Let's see... longship Jan 2015 #107

There is some disagreement about (1). Warren Stupidity Jan 2015 #108

Yes, and I've heard that, too. However... longship Jan 2015 #115

Oh I agree. I just think you could eliminate any objection to your first condition. Warren Stupidity Jan 2015 #153

I agree wholeheartedly, re finding fault, apologists. nt longship Jan 2015 #167

Surah 5:33 Burf-_- Jan 2015 #110

Who cares what religion that attackers think they are, it means absolutely nothing.... politicman Jan 2015 #109

Really ..... ? Burf-_- Jan 2015 #111

Muslims sure seem to have a lot of higher structure that determines their religion Fumesucker Jan 2015 #112

try this example.... politicman Jan 2015 #113

I live among a lot of stripmall storefront churches, I'm quite familiar with denomination shopping Fumesucker Jan 2015 #114

did the 2 paris attackwer not have choice in which flavor of Ilsam they followed..... politicman Jan 2015 #116

How do you know that hope is misguided? Fumesucker Jan 2015 #119

read what i actually worte... politicman Jan 2015 #123

I did read that Fumesucker Jan 2015 #125

but since they are all beliefs, how can you judge what is misguided ? it's all based on belief JI7 Jan 2015 #127

true, but... politicman Jan 2015 #133

as an Atheist let me tell you that we are respectful, and no true atheist would denigrate others JI7 Jan 2015 #128

i completely aaccept and agree with what you say. politicman Jan 2015 #130

i do condemn those who claim to be atheist when they complain about stupid shit like christmas trees JI7 Jan 2015 #132

you condemn cause you want to, what would you say if i said you are required to condemn every time politicman Jan 2015 #135

well, it is interesting that Atheists(or those who claim to be) are not doing these things as much JI7 Jan 2015 #136

No true aethiest...watch out, someone will spring the idiotic "no true Scotsman" baloney on you. Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #143

It's good to know that someone is in charge of who is a true atheist and who is not Fumesucker Jan 2015 #152

Doesn't mean they all agree treestar Jan 2015 #161

This is what I was responding to.. Fumesucker Jan 2015 #164

In that area treestar Jan 2015 #166

Man, there are a LOT of True Scotsmen running around these days, aren't there. Warren DeMontague Jan 2015 #126

:) KMOD Jan 2015 #134

yes. the intellectual discourse on this topic is embarrassing here at DU. nt m-lekktor Jan 2015 #139

Get out the bagpipes, scotch and some more true Scotsman and let's have a logical fail party! Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #144

So what does it mean? treestar Jan 2015 #162

It's about power, not religion. If religion were to some how magically disappear from the liberal_at_heart Jan 2015 #131

The road that led from tough Paris estate to radical Yemen training muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #138

Religion, twisted and distorted as the Westobro Church twists and distorts Chrstianity is the truth. Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #145

Personally, I find it false. muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #146

you are in the unsustainable pit of defining true religion. Warren Stupidity Jan 2015 #151

When did God select you as the arbiter of what religion really means? Fumesucker Jan 2015 #154

..... Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #155

That was my point Fumesucker Jan 2015 #156

um, yeah, they are.... KG Jan 2015 #157