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CrawlingChaos

(1,893 posts)
39. Definitely not heroic
Sun Jan 11, 2015, 06:49 PM
Jan 2015

I'm reminded of this exchange which took place on last Thursday's Democracy Now, between Art Spiegelman and Tariq Ramadan:

TARIQ RAMADAN: We are talking here about a policy that was said by Charlie Hebdo over the last years that is mainly targeting the Muslims. My point here is, once again, I’m not—

ART SPIEGELMAN: But why?

TARIQ RAMADAN: I’m not—

ART SPIEGELMAN: Why were they targeting Muslims? Do you think it’s—

TARIQ RAMADAN: I’m not—you know why? You know what? You know why? It’s mainly a question of money. They went bankrupt, and you know this. They went bankrupt over the last two years. And what they did with this controversy is that Islam today and to target Muslims is making money. It has nothing to do with courage. It has to do with making money and targeting the marginalized people in the society.

The point for me now is just to come with you, as somebody who is involved in this, and to come with the principles that you are making now, and to come and to say, look, now, in the United States of America as well as in the West, everywhere, we should be able to target the people the same way and then to find a way to talk to one another in a responsible way, not by throwing on each other our rights, but coming together with our duties, our responsibilities to live together.

I think that what you are saying now could be dangerous if you are not coming to the facts, but just with the impression that their past is similar to the present. Charlie Hebdo is not the satirical magazine of the past. It is now ideologically oriented. And Philippe Val, who was a leftist in the past, now is supporting all the theses of the far-right party, very close to the Front National. So, don’t come with something which is politically completely not accurate.


The leaps and contortions taking place in this thread in a effort to put a good face on what Charlie Hebdo was doing is making me nauseous. The idea that because of their horrific mass murder we must now pretend Charlie Hebdo was doing something noble and heroic is ABSURD.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I disagree about the 'courageous' or 'heroic' part. randome Jan 2015 #1
I think the fact that they continued publishing after an earlier firebomb attack in 2011 Denzil_DC Jan 2015 #2
PROTESTERS around the West chanted “Je suis Charlie” — I am Charlie. They lie. Michael James Cobb Jan 2015 #3
"the way the Left routinely mocks Christianity" fishwax Jan 2015 #50
"the way the Left routinely mocks Christianity" - WTF? Did you just join the wrong website? djean111 Jan 2015 #76
Making fun of Islam is not racist. Coventina Jan 2015 #4
Depicting a black French politician as a monkey sure is. LeftyMom Jan 2015 #5
So what? Michael James Cobb Jan 2015 #6
They have a right to be disgusting and bigoted. I have a right to say they're bigots. LeftyMom Jan 2015 #8
And just like anyone of any other religion, christx30 Jan 2015 #53
I'd like to see those. Hadn't seen nor heard of them. Coventina Jan 2015 #9
Here the one about the kidnapped Nigerian women jamzrockz Jan 2015 #12
Thanks for the links. After looking at it for myself I don't find it racist at all. In fact, they Coventina Jan 2015 #13
That makes sense now. The pregnant girl thing. Thanks. bravenak Jan 2015 #26
someone on facebook said Charlie is like Stephen Colbert m-lekktor Jan 2015 #51
Are you French? If not, chances are you won't get it. riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #52
You don't find those 'welfare queen drawings' racist? brush Jan 2015 #59
No, I don't. Besides which, the whole point of the cartoon is to lambaste those who buy into the Coventina Jan 2015 #70
That kind of ugly, snaggle-toothed depiction is racist brush Jan 2015 #74
OK, for the sake of argument, let's say the caricatures are racist. Coventina Jan 2015 #75
I just feel "Charlie Hebdo" could do what they do without the racist images . . . brush Jan 2015 #77
It's fine to say it's not your cup of tea. Satire is often ugly, because it exposes ugliness. Coventina Jan 2015 #79
Maybe their philosophy isn't, but some of those images . . . brush Jan 2015 #80
Out of context Nevernose Jan 2015 #16
These links are excellent for a better understanding the context of the cartoons nt Pooka Fey Jan 2015 #38
Bush is regularly depicted as a monkey (and nicknamed "chimp") on DU and elsewhere oberliner Jan 2015 #17
Depicting black people as unevolved or ape-like has a historical context. LeftyMom Jan 2015 #36
The woman in question is a huge supporter of the magazine oberliner Jan 2015 #37
You're missing the context. The French would get these and they aren't bigoted or racist riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #21
Thank you! Coventina Jan 2015 #22
Its discouraging how many DUers are failing to see the context riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #23
I've done my bit. Pooka Fey Jan 2015 #30
The French have a huge racial problem themselves . . . brush Jan 2015 #78
Also the idea jamzrockz Jan 2015 #7
What is offensive is a movable feast. Michael James Cobb Jan 2015 #10
True but I think jamzrockz Jan 2015 #11
From my point of view, religious people who spout anti gay bullshit are offensive and they seem to Bluenorthwest Jan 2015 #20
You are right. Why do the religious get a smirkymonkey Jan 2015 #33
+1000. closeupready Jan 2015 #25
Insulting a religion or a religious figure is not racist, and some on DU have also claimed Charlie Bluenorthwest Jan 2015 #14
thank you. i am so fucking SICK of people implying religion is above critcism and to criticize m-lekktor Jan 2015 #49
Not racist, definitely heroic oberliner Jan 2015 #15
Obscene? Derogatory? Maybe...not racist brooklynite Jan 2015 #18
The vast majority of Muslims in France are North African or trace their KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #31
k&r for this line "We should be able to keep both of these realities in our minds at once, but it... uppityperson Jan 2015 #19
Indeed! arcane1 Jan 2015 #27
Let's consider the premise that France has the right to preserve the values of the French Revolution Pooka Fey Jan 2015 #24
Thanks for this. But I hope you have your Kevlar undies on. Coventina Jan 2015 #28
Thanks for your appreciation and the Kevlar full body armor is in place! Pooka Fey Jan 2015 #29
The vast, vast majority of French citizens support those laws, including Muslims riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #34
Exactly. Pooka Fey Jan 2015 #35
Thank you. 840high Jan 2015 #66
You're very welcome Pooka Fey Jan 2015 #68
They aren't racist. DemocraticWing Jan 2015 #32
"Islam" and "Muslim" are not races. "Arab" is not a race, either--it is an ethnicity. MADem Jan 2015 #63
Definitely not heroic CrawlingChaos Jan 2015 #39
Isn't Ramadan Egyptian? In other words he isn't French riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #40
He's actually Swiss, of Egyptian origin. So effing what?? CrawlingChaos Jan 2015 #41
These cartoons have a French context that we do not understand riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #43
So "we" don't understand, but YOU do? CrawlingChaos Jan 2015 #46
I'm Irish living on IL. Yes. I do get most of them riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #47
So you're not French then CrawlingChaos Jan 2015 #54
Nope. Which means I know "out of context" implicitly riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #56
No cwydro Jan 2015 #42
Blasphemy vs Bigotry WhaTHellsgoingonhere Jan 2015 #44
Here's the Dr.Mahmood Mamdani quote MHP aired on her show. AllenVanAllen Jan 2015 #57
:) Thanks! I thought it was very significant. Glad you found it. WhaTHellsgoingonhere Jan 2015 #58
you're welcome AllenVanAllen Jan 2015 #67
Sorry. But FGM and child marriage and child exploitation are not immune from critIcism riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #60
So ridiculous oberliner Jan 2015 #62
Uhm, are we on the same side?! Read my post again? Nt riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #64
So DUers attacking the ideology of Republicanism would be bigotry? oberliner Jan 2015 #61
So basically you have to convert to Islam in order to have standing to criticize the religion? Pooka Fey Jan 2015 #69
As I stated upthread: crock of bull. Coventina Jan 2015 #72
I love MHP, but that attitude is a crock of bull. Coventina Jan 2015 #71
K & R Rhinodawg Jan 2015 #45
I believe in free speech... pokerfan Jan 2015 #48
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. Agnosticsherbet Jan 2015 #55
It is possible to be both Prophet 451 Jan 2015 #65
CHARLIE HEBDO is an equal-opportunity offender... Surya Gayatri Jan 2015 #73
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