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Vattel

(9,289 posts)

157. Social scientists disagree on whether "racism" should be defined in the way you favor.

Sun Jan 11, 2015, 11:14 PM

Jan 2015

Some resist the new definitions in favor of something closer to the ordinary usage that is reflected in dictionary definitions. And no, just because they are social scientists, that doesn't make their definition better or more informed or intelligent. They aren't trying to capture ordinary usage. They are often stipulating a definition that they think will facilitate research on the topics that interest them.

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African Americans are targeted by racist, white cops, routinely...Period [View all] randys1 Jan 2015 OP

It is undeniable that some cops are racists. Nye Bevan Jan 2015 #1

Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2015 #2

The NYPD is 51% white Nye Bevan Jan 2015 #13

Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2015 #15

You are wrong oberliner Jan 2015 #16

Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2015 #19

The Mentality of all cops can be scary stuff, but we have to deal with the racism first, well randys1 Jan 2015 #22

Who else would racist, white cops target? GGJohn Jan 2015 #3

Probably gays and Jews. I have never seen a racist that loved Jews or Gays. Or women. bravenak Jan 2015 #24

Fair enough. GGJohn Jan 2015 #27

Understood. bravenak Jan 2015 #29

Bigots and racists are, IMO, equally vile and should be called out with every opportunity. eom GGJohn Jan 2015 #31

They are IMO equally vile and should be called out and shamed. bravenak Jan 2015 #38

I completely agree. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #64

Yes ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #60

It has been used in a narrow way for a long time. Chemisse Jan 2015 #89

Narrow? ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #96

Narrow, as in its use is primarily to describe white bigotry against blacks, Hispanics, Jews, etc Chemisse Jan 2015 #99

You have pin-pointed what the social scientists use ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #104

But its effects are far different. NYC Liberal Jan 2015 #136

Good points. That probably explains some of the confusion over the term. arcane1 Jan 2015 #147

I could be persuaded of this if you were talking about who cbayer Jan 2015 #97

Now, that response makes no sense ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #137

Because I don't define racism as power based victimization. cbayer Jan 2015 #164

So where is this institutional privilege that ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #170

I did not make the case that that existed, although it may in small settings. cbayer Jan 2015 #173

Exactly. bravenak Jan 2015 #133

To be racist you have to be in a position of power.. VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #33

Bullshit, you don't need to be in any position of power to be a racist or a bigot, GGJohn Jan 2015 #39

Good luck! This poster is determined to smear as many DUers as possible today. arcane1 Jan 2015 #47

If that's the intention, GGJohn Jan 2015 #48

The phrase "crash and burn" comes to mind n/t arcane1 Jan 2015 #49

Crash and burn LOLLLLLLLL boy you have one hell of a funny definition of that... randys1 Jan 2015 #67

Just in case there is some confusion: arcane1 Jan 2015 #101

Social Scientist disagree with your opinion ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #63

It's all opinion and my opinion is that anyone can be a racist or bigot. GGJohn Jan 2015 #66

Yes, it's all opinion ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #88

YES, randys1 Jan 2015 #68

Well why don't you just enlighten us as to the important reason, GGJohn Jan 2015 #70

You really dont know? You dont know why and how racism works and who has that power randys1 Jan 2015 #77

Yes, again, racism isn't confined to one specific race, anyone can be a racist or a bigot, GGJohn Jan 2015 #83

It is impossible for a white person to experience racism in America, they can experience bigotry randys1 Jan 2015 #106

Bullshit. eom. GGJohn Jan 2015 #107

Haven't we had this dance before? ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #110

My opinion is just as valid as anyone else's. GGJohn Jan 2015 #111

Actually, no. All opinions are not equal. I know this is a shock. kwassa Jan 2015 #116

thank you...one has to ask why one would be so invested in demanding that one's outdated, wrong randys1 Jan 2015 #118

Sorry, but I disagree with your post. eom. GGJohn Jan 2015 #119

I win. You have no counter argument. kwassa Jan 2015 #121

Declaring a win, GGJohn Jan 2015 #123

Thank you. kwassa Jan 2015 #128

Flashback ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #132

I know. Here we go again. kwassa Jan 2015 #141

BTW ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #129

No,your opinion is NOT as valid as those of the academics that ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #124

And we get frustrated with climate change "debates" ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #103

You ask them the last time they were pulled over for being white, or followed around a store randys1 Jan 2015 #108

This message was self-deleted by its author 840high Jan 2015 #131

Is this Purity Test Sunday? cherokeeprogressive Jan 2015 #4

Seems to be. eom. GGJohn Jan 2015 #5

The difference is most liberals wouldnt consider that question a purity test. randys1 Jan 2015 #7

There it is again, GGJohn Jan 2015 #9

Yep, there it is again...Disagree? Do a poll, care to make a wager first? randys1 Jan 2015 #10

Sorry, not interested, but you're free to do one. GGJohn Jan 2015 #12

unless you claim to be one while simultaneously denying White male privilege..then you are not truly VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #34

Which I haven't done. eom. GGJohn Jan 2015 #37

Just a simple question, with a question mark at the end of it, you can either answer randys1 Jan 2015 #6

...Period pintobean Jan 2015 #8

Yes, second Sunday of January. NaturalHigh Jan 2015 #127

True enough, but why ask this question? MineralMan Jan 2015 #11

Cops profile, African-Americans are stopped, arrested, sentenced longer JonLP24 Jan 2015 #18

plus one Liberal_in_LA Jan 2015 #25

I dont need to say racist and white together as only white people can be racist in America, but to randys1 Jan 2015 #20

Since the subject is cops, let me add that experience would indicate that the semantics of who Bluenorthwest Jan 2015 #23

Racism is a huge problem, no matter who or where it rears it's ugly head, GGJohn Jan 2015 #28

Not according to those that study and publish their observations to peer=reviewed journals. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #138

Am I reading this correctly? Did you say that only white people cbayer Jan 2015 #30

White males specifically....White Male Privilege is a thing... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #35

Well, of course it is a thing, but that doesn't mean that only cbayer Jan 2015 #40

White Privilege and racism are not the exact same thing arcane1 Jan 2015 #42

Uh what?? VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #43

I was referring to your statement, not you as a person. Try to read better next time. arcane1 Jan 2015 #44

I don't need to look it up....I just read ^^^ more of it!!! VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #45

I said take it up with the dictionary. Their definition trumps your fabricated one. arcane1 Jan 2015 #46

right yeah...MY "bullshit"... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #50

The dictionary is wrong? And your made-up definition is the right one? You're still at this?? arcane1 Jan 2015 #51

You are incredibly fact-challenged today SickOfTheOnePct Jan 2015 #52

Let me guess....you too! VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #61

When did I say that I was oppressed? n/t SickOfTheOnePct Jan 2015 #71

Don't you love words being stuffed in your mouth? eom. GGJohn Jan 2015 #74

When were you oppressed GGJohn? VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #78

When did GGJohn say he had been oppressed? SickOfTheOnePct Jan 2015 #81

that is what determines what IS racism....you cannot be a victim...if you are NOT oppressed.... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #82

I never said I was a victim of racism SickOfTheOnePct Jan 2015 #86

One doesn't have to be oppressed AgingAmerican Jan 2015 #184

Oh really? Then if there is no victim...how can there be racism... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #187

Your reply is a bunch of nonsense AgingAmerican Jan 2015 #190

No its not...it is perfectly clear....for there to be such a thing as "racism"....there has to be VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #191

But to be a victim AgingAmerican Jan 2015 #192

WTF does that have to do with any thing.... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #193

It defines what I said originally AgingAmerican Jan 2015 #194

No it doesn't that's hogwash! VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #195

Nothing you say has anything to do with my comments AgingAmerican Jan 2015 #197

What fucking difference does that make? GGJohn Jan 2015 #84

What difference does it make???? VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #87

And again, stuffing words into other mouths. GGJohn Jan 2015 #90

No...just unpacking your ridiculous loaded words... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #91

That's all you've been doing throughout this thread, GGJohn Jan 2015 #93

again....you have to have suffered oppression to be a victim of racism or sexism.... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #98

What? GGJohn Jan 2015 #100

and my question to you is....HOW are YOU oppressed? VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #105

Now you're not making any fucking sense. GGJohn Jan 2015 #109

I make plenty of sense... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #112

What leads you to believe I'm white? GGJohn Jan 2015 #113

You haven't denied it so far...and I have made the claim over and over... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #114

And I haven't confirmed it either, so because someone doesn't confirm or deny GGJohn Jan 2015 #115

and I explained that.... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #117

Ahh, so you've interviewed every non white citizen in the US. GGJohn Jan 2015 #120

do I have to interview every person of color to know that they are? VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #122

I think you'd be surprised. GGJohn Jan 2015 #125

No I don't think so..... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #126

Some folks here AgingAmerican Jan 2015 #186

and thanks...YOU just proved my point! VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #75

Wait! Wut? GGJohn Jan 2015 #79

No your not a victim of racism....because you are not nor have you been oppressed... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #80

Wait. Wut? GGJohn Jan 2015 #85

Go on....please describe how you have been victimized by racism or sexism....since I take it that VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #92

I wouldn't bother SickOfTheOnePct Jan 2015 #94

You're right. GGJohn Jan 2015 #95

Does Wiki trump the peer-reviewed work of social scientists? n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #140

I understand institutionalized racism, but this nut wanted to argue over the definition of the word. arcane1 Jan 2015 #142

Well ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #143

Social scientists do not write dictionaries. arcane1 Jan 2015 #145

True ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #149

Look, we're on the same side here, but that link was about Institutionalized racism arcane1 Jan 2015 #150

Because ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #153

Social scientists disagree on whether "racism" should be defined in the way you favor. Vattel Jan 2015 #157

Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #158

I think the ones who deny that blacks can be racist are more like the climate change deniers. Vattel Jan 2015 #160

LOL...Of course you do ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #162

Um, I base my conclusions on my evaluation of the arguments. What do you base yours on? Vattel Jan 2015 #163

I base my thoughts on what has been written in peer reviewed journals ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #168

Try L. Blum's 2002 book: I'm not a racist, but � The moral quandary of race. (Cornell Univ. Press) Vattel Jan 2015 #169

Hmm. bravenak Jan 2015 #177

I was unfamiliar with Blum's work ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #180

Just finished it up. bravenak Jan 2015 #181

I just read the critique ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #182

Exactly what I was thinking. bravenak Jan 2015 #183

From your CNN link: arcane1 Jan 2015 #152

Sigh ... Okay. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #154

He is referring to the definition AgingAmerican Jan 2015 #196

It is based on a power argument JonLP24 Jan 2015 #55

I have never heard this, but I think it's a baseless argument. cbayer Jan 2015 #56

I wouldn't be the best person to describe their argument JonLP24 Jan 2015 #57

I am sorry that I was not clear. I did not think you were trying cbayer Jan 2015 #59

Oops -- I completely misread that JonLP24 Jan 2015 #65

So, I brought up the example above of the intense racism that cbayer Jan 2015 #69

What you are describing is the intense bigotry between the Black and Latino communities ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #144

Not buying it. There are many examples of communities where cbayer Jan 2015 #167

Institutional privilege? ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #172

There is a concerted effort by some to redefine racism. NaturalHigh Jan 2015 #134

Yes, but it is based in what social scientists have been writing for the better part ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #146

I've seen what you have posted. NaturalHigh Jan 2015 #148

And what is your response to climate-change deniers ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #151

Social science and climate science are hardly the same thing. NaturalHigh Jan 2015 #155

Okay ... sighhh. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #156

They need to find another word. cbayer Jan 2015 #165

The peer-reviewed writing of social scientists. 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #139

Well, that's an academic exercise in futility. cbayer Jan 2015 #166

Because???? n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #171

Because you are attempting to redefine a term that has been in use cbayer Jan 2015 #174

Isn't that what academicians do ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #175

They do it but not always successfully. cbayer Jan 2015 #176

This makes me think we are headed to ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #178

So what do you call bigotry based on race where there is no institutional power? cbayer Jan 2015 #179

Yes, because no Hispanic cop could ever possibly hate black people. arcane1 Jan 2015 #36

Or a black cop. I've actually seen that too. bravenak Jan 2015 #41

I recommend you look up the definition of the word racist SickOfTheOnePct Jan 2015 #53

racism = bigotry + societal power, and only white people have that racial societal power randys1 Jan 2015 #62

Like I said, look up the definition of the word racist SickOfTheOnePct Jan 2015 #72

Only in your mind. eom. GGJohn Jan 2015 #76

If you're taking requests... NaturalHigh Jan 2015 #130

"Only white people can be racist in America'?...Even on a one to one level? whathehell Jan 2015 #54

It depends on how you define racism gollygee Jan 2015 #58

I understand that theory. I think it's called "structural racism" whathehell Jan 2015 #102

Agree - you can check the arrest rates in a police department near you JonLP24 Jan 2015 #14

African American cops are targeted SamKnause Jan 2015 #17

That too randys1 Jan 2015 #21

I agree with the statement to some degree, but LWolf Jan 2015 #26

Agred. It's definitely not a good way to generate a discussion. arcane1 Jan 2015 #32

That all depends on what your intentions are. cbayer Jan 2015 #73

Yes true. onecaliberal Jan 2015 #135

"African Americans are targeted by racist, white cops, routinely...Period" BlueJazz Jan 2015 #159

I don't see how that can be denied. nt Live and Learn Jan 2015 #161

They are after all.... KKKops. Stellar Jan 2015 #185

But if a majority of crime in a city is committed by an African American tavernier Jan 2015 #188

There isnt a straw-man big enough for that ridiculous question randys1 Jan 2015 #189