General Discussion

hack89

(39,181 posts)

63. So if gun lax gun laws are the number one issue here

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 08:13 AM

Apr 2012

explain this to me:

Since 1992 there has been an explosion of gun ownership in America. At the same time we see more liberal gun laws, the best example being the growth of concealed carried, where only one state now bars it.

In that same period, we have seen violent crime plunge to historic lows. We have seen a 50% drop in murder and manslaughter. Guns deaths of all kinds including accidents are at historic lows. And gun violence rates continue to drop steadily.

How is this possible if present gun laws pose such a risk to society?

Could it be that the issue is much more complex than just guns? For example, what impact does the war on drugs have on violent crime rates? Don't you agree that drug related gang violence skews our murder rates? Perhaps legalization of drugs is the proper first step. Perhaps refocusing law enforcement on violent offenders instead of non-violent drug offenders?

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8 of 10 most violent states in america are - you guessed it - red [View all] Tax Man Apr 2012 OP

Also, as a Florida person DonCoquixote Apr 2012 #1

Have you seen that movie CSA? YellowRubberDuckie Apr 2012 #60

Yeah, I saw it. Whew. trof Apr 2012 #100

Absolutely nothing at the link about how they defined 'violent'. former9thward Apr 2012 #2

Google is your freind. baldguy Apr 2012 #7

"The U.S. is more peaceful than at any time in the last 20 years." hack89 Apr 2012 #15

Which begs the question: What's wrong with these gun-loving Red states? baldguy Apr 2012 #18

Four of the top 5 states in total number of murders are blue states hack89 Apr 2012 #19

You know as well as I do that gun deaths per capita is a more accurate measure than absolute numbers baldguy Apr 2012 #36

He Knows It, Sir, But If He Admitted It, Would Have To Give Up Much He Enjoys Believing The Magistrate Apr 2012 #45

18 of the 20 most violent metro areas are blue. former9thward Apr 2012 #79

People Are Divided, Sir: Learn To Deal With It The Magistrate Apr 2012 #81

Those gun death statistics for Arkansas are highly misleading Art_from_Ark Apr 2012 #47

Probably From 2008 Statistics, Sir, For Total Deaths From Fire-Arm Injuries The Magistrate Apr 2012 #49

And yet, even in 2008 there were only 168 murders in the state Art_from_Ark Apr 2012 #59

But the Statistic, Sir, was Not 'Murders' But Deaths Owing To Firearm The Magistrate Apr 2012 #80

But the topic here is violence Art_from_Ark Apr 2012 #111

An Accidental Gun-Shot is As Violent In Its Effect As An Intentional One, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2012 #112

The point is, the OP is misleading Art_from_Ark Apr 2012 #115

Now rank the states by education and poverty hack89 Apr 2012 #55

And where do nearly all of those guns come from? baldguy Apr 2012 #57

So you agree that the problem is criminals ignoring gun laws? hack89 Apr 2012 #61

The problem is so-called "responsible gun owners" ignoring gun laws baldguy Apr 2012 #104

So there is no criminal activity associated with illegal guns? Really? hack89 Apr 2012 #106

So if gun lax gun laws are the number one issue here hack89 Apr 2012 #63

A more accurate measure of what? beevul Apr 2012 #109

Those who believe absurdities will allow atrocities occur. baldguy Apr 2012 #113

Speaking of premises...false ones at that. beevul Apr 2012 #118

Of course it's a false premise. It's yours. I can understand why you want to run away from it. baldguy Apr 2012 #119

I'm not running away from anything. beevul Apr 2012 #120

Seems you have an ingrained, unshakable prejudice against "urban" areas. baldguy Apr 2012 #121

No, I have an ingrained, unshakable prejudice against anti-gun idealogues. beevul Apr 2012 #125

And "gangbangers" like Trayvon Martin get what they deserve. baldguy Apr 2012 #126

If only I had said, implied, or indicated anything of the sort... beevul Apr 2012 #128

Bruins Fan The Other News Apr 2012 #116

Why would you think I am not? nt hack89 Apr 2012 #117

Try again... (check your Brady "Score Card")... -..__... Apr 2012 #32

I'm going to take a guess that it's not so much the guns Fawke Em Apr 2012 #37

'the U.S. Peace Index is based on analysis of homicide, violent crime, policing, Tax Man Apr 2012 #51

So if I have small arms I am violent? former9thward Apr 2012 #78

Wow. Major Hogwash Apr 2012 #3

Guns and stupidity aplenty. nt onehandle Apr 2012 #4

+1000 baldguy Apr 2012 #9

Imagine that. TheCowsCameHome Apr 2012 #5

Reads like a list of Meiko Apr 2012 #6

Using what measurement? Union Scribe Apr 2012 #22

Correct Meiko Apr 2012 #64

Oh Cute HangOnKids Apr 2012 #34

Whats that Meiko Apr 2012 #62

Not a single Northern state. stevedeshazer Apr 2012 #8

Detroit, Philly, Chicago - some of the most violent places in America hack89 Apr 2012 #20

Well, yes, but in order they are some of the most populous states. stevedeshazer Apr 2012 #26

Urban violence is the real issue hack89 Apr 2012 #29

Okay, I get your point. stevedeshazer Apr 2012 #41

But, hey, Alaska is number one Blue_In_AK Apr 2012 #10

Sure, I will even gift wrap it nadinbrzezinski Apr 2012 #13

Utah is number one... TeeYiYi Apr 2012 #17

Ackety! lonestarnot Apr 2012 #54

Can't hold a candle to South Africa though. nt Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #23

South Carolina has been on that list for some time, as I recall. CBHagman Apr 2012 #11

Wow! So much for the bible thumpers and turning the other cheek, nt DippyDem Apr 2012 #12

Interesting, "the US is more peaceful now than at any other time over the last twenty years." tammywammy Apr 2012 #14

California, Texas, New York, Pennsylvania and Michigan are top 5 in number of murders hack89 Apr 2012 #16

No one will be addressing that in this thread. xmas74 Apr 2012 #21

And go beyond red/purple/blue kentauros Apr 2012 #30

I know. xmas74 Apr 2012 #31

Years ago I worked with a surveyor from "M'Zuruh" kentauros Apr 2012 #39

I remember reading an article years ago xmas74 Apr 2012 #58

I think he was from south Missouri, kentauros Apr 2012 #72

The religion groups! xmas74 Apr 2012 #95

I agree with you about developing trust and loyalty. kentauros Apr 2012 #97

It is a safe haven-for now. xmas74 Apr 2012 #98

Community Gardening deserves its own thread. kentauros Apr 2012 #108

I don't have time to start a thread. xmas74 Apr 2012 #110

False baldguy Apr 2012 #53

Those are all large population states. How about a per capita number? Comrade Grumpy Apr 2012 #25

I know that - just pointing out that blue states have areas of extreme violence hack89 Apr 2012 #27

hack89, your replies in this thread ~ Tax Man Apr 2012 #42

A Sound Observation, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2012 #46

No - the real issue is poverty, crime and education. hack89 Apr 2012 #56

If that was the case, wouldn't I be agreeing with the OP? hack89 Apr 2012 #67

. NoGOPZone Apr 2012 #74

Is that your point? Or does your point have something to do with guns? morningfog Apr 2012 #122

No - the root cause of violence is high levels of poverty and low levels of education hack89 Apr 2012 #123

Redo the numbers on a per capita basis, please n/t eridani Apr 2012 #48

If He Does That, Ma'am, Everyone Will Laugh At Him, Even Give Him The Business The Magistrate Apr 2012 #50

So you believe that violence is evenly distributed within society? hack89 Apr 2012 #65

The thinly populated ones have fewer people, therefore absolute numbers for violent acts-- eridani Apr 2012 #82

So averaging the carnage in Chicago with remote farmland in Illinois tells you something meaningful? hack89 Apr 2012 #83

So more people = more danger? eridani Apr 2012 #85

No - more desperately poor people packed into cities = more crime and more danger. hack89 Apr 2012 #86

Forget it. Not interested in constantly shifting premises eridani Apr 2012 #87

Only One Constant, Ma'am: Faith In The Great God Gun: All Powerful, All Good, Font Of All Blessings The Magistrate Apr 2012 #89

So poverty, crime, poor education are irrelevant. hack89 Apr 2012 #94

All That Concerns You, Sir, Is Promoting Gun Ownership And Concealed Carry Regulations And The Like The Magistrate Apr 2012 #96

Yet I have not once mentioned guns hack89 Apr 2012 #99

A Goose Wakes Up Each Morning In A Whole New World, Sir, But Not Me, And Not You Either The Magistrate Apr 2012 #101

So why do you think the South is more violent? nt hack89 Apr 2012 #102

That, On A Per Capita Basis, It Is, Sir, Is Established Fact The Magistrate Apr 2012 #105

You and I see eye to eye on this. hack89 Apr 2012 #107

So how is southern violence fundamentally different from.. hack89 Apr 2012 #93

In per capita murders, those five are about the national average. progressoid Apr 2012 #92

Our Republican Legislature made it legal to carry guns in to bars. Uncle Joe Apr 2012 #24

. Go Vols Apr 2012 #35

Well, we did have one of the law's sponsors get picked up Fawke Em Apr 2012 #38

Logic should tell you it's only a matter of time. Uncle Joe Apr 2012 #44

Lotsa vatos in So. Cal. would be pissed they didn't measure up... n/t cherokeeprogressive Apr 2012 #28

Kansas City and St Louis do have a lot of shootings. RC Apr 2012 #33

Ugh, more division. JNelson6563 Apr 2012 #40

Excellent post pintobean Apr 2012 #66

there are some pretty thick racial implications in the list. provis99 Apr 2012 #43

wow, and most of the states on the bottom are in the South quinnox Apr 2012 #52

oh for pity's sake. cali Apr 2012 #69

I imagine that should one have the courage of their own convictions LanternWaste Apr 2012 #71

lol, well, I think the way you repeat yourself quinnox Apr 2012 #90

I wish we wouldn't do this. cali Apr 2012 #68

Isn't it just another aspect of "divide and conquer"? kentauros Apr 2012 #73

Just wondering... maddezmom Apr 2012 #70

Just eyeballing the list, I see a pretty strong negative correlation with median household income slackmaster Apr 2012 #75

So what happens when you break it down by county? kctim Apr 2012 #76

It's because of less social programs chrisa Apr 2012 #77

Excluding maybe Nevada...aren't all these states red? n/t vaberella Apr 2012 #84

Which raises the question, red because they're violent, hedgehog Apr 2012 #88

Violent because they are poor and ill educated? nt hack89 Apr 2012 #103

well, the right wing does condone and promote violence fascisthunter Apr 2012 #91

The ability to use "sir" and "madam" and make it sound so condescending is quite irritating.....sir. crazyjoe Apr 2012 #114

So if everybody had a gun philosophy B Calm Apr 2012 #124

I wonder what happens if you break it down by district? hughee99 Apr 2012 #127